HiFiMan HE-4XX Review, Planar Magnetics you can drive with a cellphone for $170

[Wolf_Lbh]

14 hours ago, DamianXXX said:

Ok... so I had to register just to post this... and to warn people about your "review". Your opinon seems like you have just fell in love with your new cans... as someone stated already, even Linus, and experienced reviewed seems not to know much about audio besides probably having tried every possible expensive gear.

You are again implying the 6XX may offer the same or worse performance.. and then that you don't expect anything to beat the HE-4XX.... while me and many are considering the HD650 such a great scaling headphone that is rivaling many more expensive ones (I do like it more than my Shure SRH-1840 which is 

 

You have never heard the HD6XX/HD650 but you just state this are the end game for 200 USD cans which is plain missleading. Also, you cite the K7XX as having sheers of detail while the most important aspect of those cans is the amazing soundstage, the rest is not outstanding at al.

 

The 4XX doesn't have the same musicality as the 6XX. With the HiFiMan you get more instrument separation, less bass, a more crude representation, more fatigue... For me there is something piercing in the 4XX representation that's nowhere in the 6XX. The 4XX is also much more in your face sound.

 

Here it's a comparison with some of my gear, excuse there is no 4XX but HE-400 will give an idea, you can see the huge drop in the upper midrange compared to others:

 

 

What's your DAC/Amp? What type of music have you tested?

 

Reference: I do have the 4XX, the K7XX and the 6XX along with Shure SE535, Shure SRH-1840, V-Moda M-100, Denon MM-400, HD598 and have tried a fair share of cans. I also pair them with Burson Audio HA-160D, Dragonfly V1.2 and Dacport LX.

Of course I don't expect the HD6XX to beat the HE4XX. These are amazingly good planar magnetics which gives them an edge over regular drivers. Even if they are both equally amazing at what they do the fact that the HE4XX has better tech in them will always give them the edge. It would be a different matter if the HE4XX performed poorly but if you pair an expert with a flintlock against an expert with a machinegun... that showdown only ends one way. And if an experienced reviewer can't tell the difference between the HD6XX and the K7XX then the HE4XX have nothing to worry about.

Also sound graphs mean next to nothing. You change the ear pads and you can change the entire graph, and the frequency response isn't all that is important, like the planar magnetic response time, and square wave response. Ultimately a frequency response graph just doesn't accurately reflect real world conditions, and doesn't even contain enough data to paint the whole picture.

[GamerDude]

I don't know about you, but saying just because the HE4XX having Planar Mag has 'the edge' over Dynamic Driver on the HD6XX sounds a tad.......over-enthusiastic. I'd say there're different, NOT necessarily that one 'has an edge' or is better than the other, that's plain wrong to me. Planar Mag doesn't equate to being better or having 'an edge' over dynamic. I understand your enthusiasm but I'd have to vehemently disagree with this particular assertion of yours. 

 

To my ears, the HD6XX is able to stand up to my other more expensive cans (AKG K812, Sennheiser HD800, HE560, HE4, HE1000, Denon AH-D7000, Grado GS1000i), I'm NOT saying it's better, but for 200USD, I can say that I can happily use it instead of my other cans. This is with different DAC stack/combos like Gustard X12 + H10 stack, Oppo HA-1 combo, Fostex HPA4 combo and iFi Micro iDSD BL combo), so I'm not limiting myself to just one or two cans, and not to just one or two DAC stack/combo either.

[Wolf_Lbh]

1 hour ago, GamerDude said:

I don't know about you, but saying just because the HE4XX having Planar Mag has 'the edge' over Dynamic Driver on the HD6XX sounds a tad.......over-enthusiastic. I'd say there're different, NOT necessarily that one 'has an edge' or is better than the other, that's plain wrong to me. Planar Mag doesn't equate to being better or having 'an edge' over dynamic. I understand your enthusiasm but I'd have to vehemently disagree with this particular assertion of yours. 

 

To my ears, the HD6XX is able to stand up to my other more expensive cans (AKG K812, Sennheiser HD800, HE560, HE4, HE1000, Denon AH-D7000, Grado GS1000i), I'm NOT saying it's better, but for 200USD, I can say that I can happily use it instead of my other cans. This is with different DAC stack/combos like Gustard X12 + H10 stack, Oppo HA-1 combo, Fostex HPA4 combo and iFi Micro iDSD BL combo), so I'm not limiting myself to just one or two cans, and not to just one or two DAC stack/combo either.

What sounds better is entirely your opinion and you're entirely allowed to have it. That's the audio world. However objectively speaking the improved responsiveness and accuracy of planar magnetic drivers is better technology than traditional drivers. If you prefer that sound or not... who can say.

[GamerDude]

1 hour ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

What sounds better is entirely your opinion and you're entirely allowed to have it. That's the audio world. However objectively speaking the improved responsiveness and accuracy of planar magnetic drivers is better technology than traditional drivers. If you prefer that sound or not... who can say.

Okay, planar may be more accurate, but no planar has that wide soundstage like the HD800 or Focal Utopia.....but hey, if you just wanna gloss over how good planar are compared to dynamic, that's your prerogative. It just sound like you have gotten one or two cans, and suddenly the HE4XX is the gold standard at below 200USD that others should be measured against. I like what I like, as do you, but when you use terms 'surgical precision' to describe a sound, I'd just  simply because there's no such thing. Yes, the use of colorful phrases is fun and makes for the casual reader, but when it's used in a review, it's possible that it may (unintentionally) mislead. 

 

As for the part in bold, I'm fully aware of that, don't need you to say as I've always stated that when it comes to sound, personal preference (and hearing) play crucial roles. Hell, we don't even agree about earpads and headbands apparently. Focus pads are okay I guess, not the most comfortable, but certainly not the most uncomfortable either. The headband on the my HE-4 (similar to the HE4XX) is pretty average in comfort, sure I can wear the HE-4 for extended periods, but I'd feel some pressure and discomfort on the acme of the band resting against the top of my head. With the HD6XX, I don't feel this irritating pressure at all due to the foam padding on the headband.

 

[Wolf_Lbh]

8 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

Okay, planar may be more accurate, but no planar has that wide soundstage like the HD800 or Focal Utopia.....but hey, if you just wanna gloss over how good planar are compared to dynamic, that's your prerogative. It just sound like you have gotten one or two cans, and suddenly the HE4XX is the gold standard at below 200USD that others should be measured against. I like what I like, as do you, but when you use terms 'surgical precision' to describe a sound, I'd just  simply because there's no such thing. Yes, the use of colorful phrases is fun and makes for the casual reader, but when it's used in a review, it's possible that it may (unintentionally) mislead. 

 

As for the part in bold, I'm fully aware of that, don't need you to say as I've always stated that when it comes to sound, personal preference (and hearing) play crucial roles. Hell, we don't even agree about earpads and headbands apparently. Focus pads are okay I guess, not the most comfortable, but certainly not the most uncomfortable either. The headband on the my HE-4 (similar to the HE4XX) is pretty average in comfort, sure I can wear the HE-4 for extended periods, but I'd feel some pressure and discomfort on the acme of the band resting against the top of my head. With the HD6XX, I don't feel this irritating pressure at all due to the foam padding on the headband.

 

Obviously when I say things like "surgical precision" it should be taken to mean "very accurate" and not... idk what you are trying to say I was making it sound like, like they could perform surgery or something? I feel it is fairly obvious that people shouldn't take that too literally lol.

Also earpads (as long as they can be swapped easily) and headbands are extremely minor things. Even headbands that I hate can be fixed for literally $3 with some sewing or hotglue skills: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XBOM9QU earpads can get a little pricey ($40-$80) and are worth griping about but a $3 and 5 minutes of effort fix is more of a sigh and move on kinda moment.

[GamerDude]

41 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

Obviously when I say things like "surgical precision" it should be taken to mean "very accurate" and not... idk what you are trying to say I was making it sound like, like they could perform surgery or something? I feel it is fairly obvious that people shouldn't take that too literally lol.

Also earpads (as long as they can be swapped easily) and headbands are extremely minor things. Even headbands that I hate can be fixed for literally $3 with some sewing or hotglue skills: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XBOM9QU earpads can get a little pricey ($40-$80) and are worth griping about but a $3 and 5 minutes of effort fix is more of a sigh and move on kinda moment.

Please don't patronize me, do you think I'm some simple hick who takes things literally? You think you're better than me? I guess you're showing your true colors now, aren't you?

 

My question is, when you describe the HE4XX having 'surgical precision', you meant that its sound reproduction is accurate with great detail retrieval (I take it that this is more or less what you'd meant), how do you know? Do you know exactly how that song/sound/note sound like in the first place? If not, how can you say it's been reproduced with 'surgical precision'? If you had used 'sounds very accurate with good detail and soundstage (to my ears, or imo, or something to that effect) I'd have no problem with that.

 

Anyway, I'm so done with your and your superior attitude, and to prevent further aggravation, so ignored now (I'd thank you kindly to return the favor).

[Wolf_Lbh]

14 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

Please don't patronize me, do you think I'm some simple hick who takes things literally? You think you're better than me? I guess you're showing your true colors now, aren't you?

 

My question is, when you describe the HE4XX having 'surgical precision', you meant that its sound reproduction is accurate with great detail retrieval (I take it that this is more or less what you'd meant), how do you know? Do you know exactly how that song/sound/note sound like in the first place? If not, how can you say it's been reproduced with 'surgical precision'? If you had used 'sounds very accurate with good detail and soundstage (to my ears, or imo, or something to that effect) I'd have no problem with that.

 

Anyway, I'm so done with your and your superior attitude, and to prevent further aggravation, so ignored now (I'd thank you kindly to return the favor).

I haven't been acting superior at all, but I get the feeling you've been looking for a fight and I'm simply not going to give you one. If you want to ignore me because I don't feed the trolls then feel free. You're literally admitting to nitpicking over my choice of words in how I described "accurate" right now and saying you understood my meaning from the start because only a "hick" would think anything but what I meant. Sounds pretty trollish.

Obviously my perception of what is accurate for sound comes the same way as anyone else's would: By comparing what I've listened to over various mediums.

It isn't hard to notice when something sounds off or there is something wrong with the playback.

[DamianXXX]

On 12/24/2017 at 10:54 AM, Wolf_Lbh said:

Of course I don't expect the HD6XX to beat the HE4XX. These are amazingly good planar magnetics which gives them an edge over regular drivers. Even if they are both equally amazing at what they do the fact that the HE4XX has better tech in them will always give them the edge. It would be a different matter if the HE4XX performed poorly but if you pair an expert with a flintlock against an expert with a machinegun... that showdown only ends one way. And if an experienced reviewer can't tell the difference between the HD6XX and the K7XX then the HE4XX have nothing to worry about.

Also sound graphs mean next to nothing. You change the ear pads and you can change the entire graph, and the frequency response isn't all that is important, like the planar magnetic response time, and square wave response. Ultimately a frequency response graph just doesn't accurately reflect real world conditions, and doesn't even contain enough data to paint the whole picture.

You are just stubborn.. throwing whatever feels like supporting your statement... if someone doesn't notice the difference between HD6XX, K7XX and HE4XX, certainly shouldn't be writing audio reviews at all... at all.. but hey.. anyone with internet access can write reviews nowadays.

 

Really I don't see any point in trying to talk to you because when asked about music you listened to or your equipment you didn't reply and deflected the question to whatever you wanted to answer.

[Wolf_Lbh]

19 minutes ago, DamianXXX said:

You are just stubborn.. throwing whatever feels like supporting your statement... if someone doesn't notice the difference between HD6XX, K7XX and HE4XX, certainly shouldn't be writing audio reviews at all... at all.. but hey.. anyone with internet access can write reviews nowadays.

 

Really I don't see any point in trying to talk to you because when asked about music you listened to or your equipment you didn't reply and deflected the question to whatever you wanted to answer.

I never said there wasn't a difference between the the three. Linus said he couldn't notice a difference between the K7XX and the HD6XX and I said if that is true (and he has no reason to lie) then the HE4XX are considerably better. I also said in the event he is wrong then at best the HD6XX could be about the same as the HE4XX and would still cost $30 more.

I didn't deflect the question, I simply pointed out you can't wave frequency response charts around because something in a graph looks like it holds relevant data. In reality you can have two headphones with near identical frequency response graphs sound completely different because of things like imaging and sound stage or because someone swapped out the earcups. You can even have identical model headphones straight from the factory with different frequency response graphs because of varying tolerances in production. The frequency response is a small part of the whole puzzle that comes together to produce the final sound that reaches your ears. It's like saying that the shoes you wear determine how fast you can run. Sure it plays a part but you need to factor in a bunch of other major factors like terrain, weight, muscles, stamina, other environmental factors like the weather, ect.

As for my equipment, I use a mayflower arc amp/dac combo unit. (dsp obviously disabled) 0% distortion to anything within the human hearing range at any volume range I would care to listen to. And I tested it with a variety of music and other media like voice chats, podcasts, tv shows/movies, youtube vids, and games as stated in my review.

[spwath]

51 minutes ago, Wolf_Lbh said:

I never said there wasn't a difference between the the three. Linus said he couldn't notice a difference between the K7XX and the HD6XX and I said if that is true (and he has no reason to lie) then the HE4XX are considerably better. I also said in the event he is wrong then at best the HD6XX could be about the same as the HE4XX and would still cost $30 more.

 

I'm sorry, but no.

 

Linus is not a good audio reviewer. 

 

HD 6XX is better than the HE-4XX. I have the HD 650 and had the HE-4XX for a week. HE-4XX are very good for $170, but HD 6XX are amazing for $200. HE-4XX I say are worth about $250, HD 6XX I say are worth about $350.