DSLR Beginner Recomendations

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48 minutes ago, L.Lawliet said:

For photography people will avoid mirrorless camera simply because of the viewfinder.

Mirrorless is good for videography cause when u record a video u wont be looking at the viewfinder..and they are cheaper..

For example The panasonic G7 which is only about $600-700USD can shot 4k at 24fps..with DSLR u'll need to spend $1000 just for the body only..

Not only that, but the battery life tends to be terrible compared to a DSLR, and the auto-focus systems are often very slow, making them fine for still things but totally unsuitable for sports, wildlife, etc.

[cc143]

Ok so I read most of this thread, and I do get this sort of questions a lot, both personally and online. 

 

Here's what my outlook is, most cameras now have a common spec sheet, i.e. every actually important specification like sensor size, resolution, processor, dynamic range, bells and whistles like wifi, touchscreens etc. are all fairly similar. There is some variability in the focusing systems and nikon do still need an in body AF motor to use some older lenses, which is why I tend to recommend Canon, even though this isn't that big an issue. 

 

Going mirrorless instead depends upon your own needs regarding weight and battery life. Additionally, while dslr glass tends to be cheaper, especially in the more well established used market, you do have the ability to adapt lenses on mirrorless systems. 

 

My personal recommendation for people is usually (from least to most desireable) nikon d3400, canon 750d (or whatever it is called in the US) Canon 800d. 

 

The 800d is significantly more capable, but you should be content with the 750d anyway. Just buy anyone of these that is closest to your budget and you are fine. 

 

Another strength of dlsrs is ergonomics and general useability. I find them much easier and more intuitive for a beginner to use and learn on than most comparable mirrorless systems, even though something like a fuji xt1/xt2 is probably the most intuitive due to all settings having their own dial.  

 

For glass, stick to the kit lens until you have a better idea of what you need. Many people go out and buy a kit with a telephoto lens, but most of them just carry it around. My recommendation is get the 18-55, if you need something wider or more tele, go with that after you realise you need it. 

[Dietrick_K]

3 hours ago, cc143 said:

Ok so I read most of this thread, and I do get this sort of questions a lot, both personally and online. 

 

Here's what my outlook is, most cameras now have a common spec sheet, i.e. every actually important specification like sensor size, resolution, processor, dynamic range, bells and whistles like wifi, touchscreens etc. are all fairly similar. There is some variability in the focusing systems and nikon do still need an in body AF motor to use some older lenses, which is why I tend to recommend Canon, even though this isn't that big an issue. 

 

Going mirrorless instead depends upon your own needs regarding weight and battery life. Additionally, while dslr glass tends to be cheaper, especially in the more well established used market, you do have the ability to adapt lenses on mirrorless systems. 

 

My personal recommendation for people is usually (from least to most desireable) nikon d3400, canon 750d (or whatever it is called in the US) Canon 800d. 

 

The 800d is significantly more capable, but you should be content with the 750d anyway. Just buy anyone of these that is closest to your budget and you are fine. 

 

Another strength of dlsrs is ergonomics and general useability. I find them much easier and more intuitive for a beginner to use and learn on than most comparable mirrorless systems, even though something like a fuji xt1/xt2 is probably the most intuitive due to all settings having their own dial.  

 

For glass, stick to the kit lens until you have a better idea of what you need. Many people go out and buy a kit with a telephoto lens, but most of them just carry it around. My recommendation is get the 18-55, if you need something wider or more tele, go with that after you realise you need it. 

Thanks for the input. I looked up those cameras and here in the US, the Canon 750d and 800d are the Rebel t6i and t7i. I have been looking at the T6i ( 750d ) and have had interest in it. I also looked at the Nikon D3400 and I was attracted to it since it is rarely close to the Canon T6i but significantly cheaper and can pick up the 2 lens pack with it to make it equal price to the Canon with only a single lens.

[cc143]

2 hours ago, Dietrick_K said:

Thanks for the input. I looked up those cameras and here in the US, the Canon 750d and 800d are the Rebel t6i and t7i. I have been looking at the T6i ( 750d ) and have had interest in it. I also looked at the Nikon D3400 and I was attracted to it since it is rarely close to the Canon T6i but significantly cheaper and can pick up the 2 lens pack with it to make it equal price to the Canon with only a single lens.

As I said, the d3400 is fine, but unless I were really financially constrained, I would get the 750d instead. The 2nd lens you get isnt imo worth it anyway over the extra features of the 750d. 

 

Also keep in mind that the 800d is a very significant upgrade over the 750d, although that isnt that visible on paper, which is quite rare for that tier of cameras, especially given Canon's history of very incremental updates over the past years.

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10 hours ago, L.Lawliet said:

Oh yeah i forgot the auto focus lol..

But i think Mirrorless af is getting good now..of course its not good as DSLR..

But one thing that DSLR cant win over mirrorless is the size..mirrorless is so compact and more low profile..

Yeah each has their advantages for sure.  With Mirrorless, you can see the exact shot you capture when you hit the button so no real need to review.  The shutter of course is (or at least can be) silent, and with this comes generally higher shooting speed, and depending how they are designed, they can also continue giving an image to the screen or viewfinder while shooting so you don't get fast flashes of image and darkness, they can often have faster shutter speeds than 1/8000 iirc, they're compact and lightweight as you said, and they tend to be better for video since that DSLR advantage in auto-focus is lost and then some when you switch from stills to video.

 

That said, like I said, the battery life is often much worse, the auto-focus can't keep up with fast moving things as well generally speaking, and it's kind of an unfortunate paradox about the shooting speed since higher shooting speed tends to be most important for the things they can't do well due to auto-focus shortfalls.  Also, unless they include a traditional mechanical shutter to use when you can/want, there is the risk of rolling shutter effect.

[cc143]

29 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Also, unless they include a traditional mechanical shutter to use when you can/want, there is the risk of rolling shutter effect.

Dont forget about using Flash, its one of the most practically important criticisms of the sony a9.

 

I also have to second that, my xt10 is almost always turned on MF just because it misses so much. Now newer models like the xt2 and the a9 are supposedly on par with most dslrs, but, they are pretty pricey.

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12 minutes ago, cc143 said:

Dont forget about using Flash, its one of the most practically important criticisms of the sony a9.

 

I also have to second that, my xt10 is almost always turned on MF just because it misses so much. Now newer models like the xt2 and the a9 are supposedly on par with most dslrs, but, they are pretty pricey.

I'm not fancy enough to know much of anything about flashes   I've only eve had access to the on-camera flash, and I try to avoid using it as much as possible because I think it gives the lighting a very cheap/fake look due to poorly taken shots on auto usually corresponding with using the flash in that manner.

Of course properly setup off-camera flashes can be used to great effect but, yeah, I've never done that so idk how or anything about it.

[Dietrick_K]

personally I am starting to lean toward the Canon T61 instead of the T7 or T8 due to the price range restriction, the T6i is right at the top range of my budget and seems to have a good amount of features that covers a great deal of what I need, anything it doesn't have is covered by my point and shoot plus the GoPro, possibly even my phone if necessary.

[cc143]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'm not fancy enough to know much of anything about flashes   I've only eve had access to the on-camera flash, and I try to avoid using it as much as possible because I think it gives the lighting a very cheap/fake look due to poorly taken shots on auto usually corresponding with using the flash in that manner.

Of course properly setup off-camera flashes can be used to great effect but, yeah, I've never done that so idk how or anything about it.

Flash can't sync with electronic shutters on CMOS sensors. I thought I had a more clear understanding of the physics behind it prior to googling it now to get you a link, but I got a bit confused with the short explanations and would rather not go into a document with deep analysis of the physics behind it right now. 

 

That is an issue with auto mode. You can use your on camera flash for fill, for instance when taking a back lit portrait, but in general, they are fiddly, not that strong, and the complete inability to use them of camera is an issue. But you should try it out at some point. I don't use it since I stop working clubs that often, unless a friend asks me for an id picture or something of the sort, or in the rare occasion I take a well thought out portrait. That said, I still carry 2  and a trigger in my full camera bag so there's that;P

2 minutes ago, Dietrick_K said:

personally I am starting to lean toward the Canon T61 instead of the T7 or T8 due to the price range restriction, the T6i is right at the top range of my budget and seems to have a good amount of features that covers a great deal of what I need, anything it doesn't have is covered by my point and shoot plus the GoPro, possibly even my phone if necessary.

I would go for the 3400d instead, and that says a lot given its a lower tier model. 

 

I firmly believe that if you can afford to spend the money for the 750d you should, the benefit outweighs the monetary cost. Now on the 800d, the prices are still pretty high since it was only recently released. It should be within your budget anyway, and failing that, look for a used one from a reputable vendor, many camera stores have step up programs and you can get a good deal on one in great condition if you feel uneasy going for one off craigslist or ebay. 

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Just now, cc143 said:

That is an issue with auto mode. You can use your on camera flash for fill, for instance when taking a back lit portrait, but in general, they are fiddly, not that strong, and the complete inability to use them of camera is an issue. But you should try it out at some point. I don't use it since I stop working clubs that often, unless a friend asks me for an id picture or something of the sort, or in the rare occasion I take a well thought out portrait. That said, I still carry 2  and a trigger in my full camera bag so there's that;P

I do use it when I feel it's appropriate but it's not often and I often use exposure compensation to dial down the relative intensity.

[Dietrick_K]

6 minutes ago, cc143 said:

Flash can't sync with electronic shutters on CMOS sensors. I thought I had a more clear understanding of the physics behind it prior to googling it now to get you a link, but I got a bit confused with the short explanations and would rather not go into a document with deep analysis of the physics behind it right now. 

 

That is an issue with auto mode. You can use your on camera flash for fill, for instance when taking a back lit portrait, but in general, they are fiddly, not that strong, and the complete inability to use them of camera is an issue. But you should try it out at some point. I don't use it since I stop working clubs that often, unless a friend asks me for an id picture or something of the sort, or in the rare occasion I take a well thought out portrait. That said, I still carry 2  and a trigger in my full camera bag so there's that;P

I would go for the 3400d instead, and that says a lot given its a lower tier model. 

 

I firmly believe that if you can afford to spend the money for the 750d you should, the benefit outweighs the monetary cost. Now on the 800d, the prices are still pretty high since it was only recently released. It should be within your budget anyway, and failing that, look for a used one from a reputable vendor, many camera stores have step up programs and you can get a good deal on one in great condition if you feel uneasy going for one off craigslist or ebay. 

I have the money for the T6i but that is about it, I plan on then investing into lenses after words instead of getting the better models since I wont be able to budget the better lenses in. I agree that it would be a good idea to look for the used models of the newer ones. I think the D3400 is worth its money but I personally think the T6i has a little bit more of a value placement over the D3400.

[cc143]

3 hours ago, Dietrick_K said:

I have the money for the T6i but that is about it, I plan on then investing into lenses after words instead of getting the better models since I wont be able to budget the better lenses in. I agree that it would be a good idea to look for the used models of the newer ones. I think the D3400 is worth its money but I personally think the T6i has a little bit more of a value placement over the D3400.

Well it doesn't. The d3400 is the better camera, categorically, unless you absolutely can't live with out a swivel screen. 

 

Now, about investing in lenses, I agree that the glass is an integral part of the camera and much more important to the end result than the camera itself, that is undisputable, however, do you understand what investing lenses means for your pocket? I doubt you will be investing in glass that heavily right now, which is why I would prioritise, so to speak, the 750d over the 700d or the d3400. The kit lenses are anyway not that far apart, so unless you go for a third party 17-50mm f/2.8 or a 16-35mm f/2.8 (£2,000 lens!) there is no point. The 750d is the camera that best fits your needs, its within your budget with enough leftover for some accessories and maybe even a nifty fifty and is the best cost to benefit of everything we have mentioned. 

 

Past that, its your money, you can buy what you please with it. 

[Williamchan87]

Just to note, DXO does not/cannot test on cameras that don't use the standard Bayer sensor aka mainly Fujifilm X

[HarmInTrying]

Hey, OP, did you end up picking up the T6i? I'm in the market for a DSLR and that guy fits nicely within my budget. Just wondering what your first thoughts are, if any, regarding image quality, usability, ease of learning (you said you were looking to learn; me too!), etc. Anything you could throw my way would be appreciated.

 

Thanks! Sorry for digging up a 2 month old post.