CONSOLE KILLER PC????

[Shura]

2 minutes ago, Samson_ST said:

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/CbD8NN

i took about $50 off

Yes by going with a gtx 1030, you need to keep in mind about frame drops at 1080p. Your looking at raw performance and teraflops but it doesn't exactly work that way. Games on consoles are coded to run on the hardware with no middleman, games on PC have to run on top of the Os which does effect performance. In terms of numbers on paper it might be comparable but would it be able to run the games at smooth framerates? That's questionable. 

[Samson_ST]

1 minute ago, Shura said:

Yes by going with a gtx 1030, you need to keep in mind about frame drops at 1080p. Your looking at raw performance and teraflops but it doesn't exactly work that way. Games on consoles are coded to run on the hardware with no middleman, games on PC have to run on top of the Os which does effect performance. In terms of numbers on paper it might be comparable but would it be able to run the games at smooth framerates? That's questionable. 

i guess frame drops will be dependant on which game u play

[Samson_ST]

Just now, Samson_ST said:

i guess frame drops will be dependant on which game u play

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/kcvVpb

AUD $554.29, and ps4 pro is AUD $550 so its pretty close

[AshleyAshes]

8 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

As much as some people would like to have you believe otherwise, if you're just looking at the initial purchase, it's hard to beat some consoles on performance per dollar no matter what you do.  Because you don't need to buy Windows, they can mass produce them for cheaper because of the scale, and they can subsidize the cost knowing they'll make it back in more expensive games, multiplayer subscriptions, etc. the initial purchase price can sometimes be unbeatable.

I know I've said it a few times on this forum, but every time someone tries to make a 'Console Killer' build that matches the price point of the consoles, they cut out big chunks to make it work.  Like you said, the cost of an OS, they never factor in the cost of the OS.  Also peripherals, they rarely include any input devices even though all consoles ship with at least one gamepad in their most basic configuration.  A console, as it ships, is 'ready to play' with everything in the box, you at most need to run an automatic firmware update on first startup and you're out the gate.

 

There's also the size.  While this may not matter to all, but when it comes to putting something under the TV in the living room, not everyone wants a mATX case or bigger stuffed in there.  Their 'console killer' builds are just 'huge' compared to a console.  So far every cased used in this thread is too tall to fit inside the shelf of a common Ikea Kallax.  These builds won't 'jive' with a lot of 'entertainment center' furniture.

[Mooshi]

I despise the term "console killer" because most builds with this name usually cost way more than a console which defeats the purpose. Or the build doesn't fit console dimensions and/or have crap specs.

 

Was gonna do some searching before work for ideas, but the annoying persistent attitude, being rude to others and generally not taking input seriously makes me reconsider.

 

Unless you trash-pick/get crazy eBay deals, you're not building anything worth the effort for gaming on 400usd* when factoring OS and peripherals.

 

Also noticed most recent link has AU, Australia has crap prices which makes this even more of an uphill struggle. Honestly, I'd try to find a 2nd-4th gen i7 off eBay and use the savings for at least a 1060. FX6300 and a GTX 1300 .. I'd rather be caught with an Xbox One or PS4.. or even spend more on an overpriced Switch from a scalper.

[markr54632]

You could get below that price point, but your not gonna get all new parts and possibly gonna have to look for a cheap prebuilt pc to start with.

 

Right now is a really good time for this with all of the back to school specials running.

 

If you wanted to build it yourself and beat that price I cant do pcpartpicker as it doesn't show combos.

 

Microcenter has a special on fx-8350 and mobo for 115

Pick up a used pair of ddr3 4gb sticks for 30

Pick up a used ssd for 20

Pick up a 1tb hard drive for 15-40

Pick up a 1050 or rx 560 for 80-120

Pick up the cheapest case you can find 15-50

 

Alternately

Spend 150-250 on a off lease or refurbished mini tower. Try to avoid hp and dell if you think you will want to change the case. You should be able to find something decent. Check the government auctions too, sometimes you can get something decent without a hard drive for next to nothing.

 

Spend 80-150 on a rx 560 or 1050.

 

Keep in mind most of your refurb and off lease pcs will come with a valid windows license. Which is 100 or so. Windows 10 free upgrade still works so get whatever's cheapest between 7 8.1 or 10. Upgrade immediately so you have a digital license, then run whatever you prefer.

 

Neither of these have any upgrade path, but should play most games on medium settings. My super cheap budget build will play doom on low-medium at 1080p pretty well. My exact build would run you 500 even. However i got my base prebuilt pc and case for free it would not have been my first choice. I am 240 into my build.

[AshleyAshes]

I would however argue that when you have an older PC that you are replacing, an HTPC/LivingRoom PC can be a great new life for it and if most of the parts are parts you would otherwise decommission, it really brings down the cost.  You may not get something SMALL, but even a 6 year old CPU with a half-decent GPU and some gamepads and a Logitech K400 keyboard or something is ready for some fun gaming.  A lot of great games on Steam are ready for split screen gaming with your friends and don't have ultra high specs.

Have you ever played ScreenCheats?  It's like Goldeneye 64 for Steam with additional hilarity.  Get four gamepads and get ready for fun with friends.
Towerfall Ascension is also great.
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed is a great Kart Racer on PC.

Rocket League runs great on a LOT of computers.

Not to mention that there's tonnes of 360 and PS3 era console ports on Steam that will run decently without the need for a 1080 Ti to get the job done.

 

I've been playing Final Fantasy X on Steam at 4K, with a Radeon HD 7950.

[vanished]

1 hour ago, AshleyAshes said:

I would however argue that when you have an older PC that you are replacing, an HTPC/LivingRoom PC can be a great new life for it and if most of the parts are parts you would otherwise decommission, it really brings down the cost.

This is a good thing to keep in mind.  I think a lot of people, my self included at one time, quickly dismissed the idea of having 3, 4, 5, or more "good" PCs in the house as an insane endeavour for only the richest enthusiasts, but in reality, it doesn't have to cost any more than running a single PC, since you only need to keep that 1 up to date, and everything in it that you replace just gets shifted down to the next PC in line, which in a way divides the effective cost of upgrading by the number of computers you have.

[AshleyAshes]

7 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

This is a good thing to keep in mind.  I think a lot of people, my self included at one time, quickly dismissed the idea of having 3, 4, 5, or more "good" PCs in the house as an insane endeavour for only the richest enthusiasts, but in reality, it doesn't have to cost any more than running a single PC, since you only need to keep that 1 up to date, and everything in it that you replace just gets shifted down to the next PC in line, which in a way divides the effective cost of upgrading by the number of computers you have.

That's pretty much what I've done.  Sometimes I get new parts but as an example my 'Main' HTPC is my old 3770K workstation.  It's huge I admit, in an ATX case but it's almost all used parts.  I buy one new GPU for my desktop every two years and then 'hand me down' them other machines.  So my workstation R9 390X will be in the HTPC come November once it's time to buy a new one for the desktop.   Best GPU ever?  No.  But it's enough for some 4K gaming on the TV at 'Normal' settings in most games and a heck of a lot higher in older games.

[aisle9]

15 hours ago, Samson_ST said:

you see im trying to build a pc. a pc that can beat a console (PS4 PRO)  in 1 of 3 category, 1), same price same specs, 2) same price better specs, 3) cheaper price same spec.

 

Can you guys help me???? this is what ive done

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/bvYJr7

 

heres some things to know

 

Price of PS4 PRO: USD $417.62

Specs of PS4 PRO:

CPU: 8 core clocked 2.18ghz

GPU: 4.2 teraflops (thats all the website gave me)

RAM: 8gb ddr5

Storage: 1TB

 

PLEASE HELP ME!!! I'm stuck

 

 

Shop used, my friend.

 

Here's the best I can do with new parts, and I made compromises here that I'm not happy with:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($79.00 @ Scorptec) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H110M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($74.00 @ IJK) 
Memory: G.Skill - NT Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($89.00 @ Umart) 
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($62.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 560 2GB PULSE Video Card  ($148.00 @ Umart) 
Case: Silverstone - PS09B MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($45.00 @ Umart) 
Power Supply: Corsair - CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($75.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Total: $572.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-13 06:07 AEST+1000

 

I'll spoil the fun for you: even coming in over budget (~$450 USD), you're not going to beat a PS4 Pro with that.

 

Check out some Tech YES City videos on YouTube. If you can get your hands on something like a used Dell Optiplex mini tower with an Ivy-ish i5 or i7 in it, you can swap in a better PSU, plug in a 1060/480 tier GPU and go gaming.

[AshleyAshes]

34 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

This is a good thing to keep in mind.  I think a lot of people, my self included at one time, quickly dismissed the idea of having 3, 4, 5, or more "good" PCs in the house as an insane endeavour for only the richest enthusiasts, but in reality, it doesn't have to cost any more than running a single PC, since you only need to keep that 1 up to date, and everything in it that you replace just gets shifted down to the next PC in line, which in a way divides the effective cost of upgrading by the number of computers you have.

To add to what you said here, I think it'd be cool to see more YouTube tech channels occasionally touch on re-purposing older-but-not-useless hardware into builds for purposes other than 'Mainline Desktop PC'.  Turn an old desktop into a NAS or a Steam Machine/HTPC and such.  Not just the hardware but talk about the accessories or the software configuration to get it working nice.

[Samson_ST]

7 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

I know I've said it a few times on this forum, but every time someone tries to make a 'Console Killer' build that matches the price point of the consoles, they cut out big chunks to make it work.  Like you said, the cost of an OS, they never factor in the cost of the OS.  Also peripherals, they rarely include any input devices even though all consoles ship with at least one gamepad in their most basic configuration.  A console, as it ships, is 'ready to play' with everything in the box, you at most need to run an automatic firmware update on first startup and you're out the gate.

 

There's also the size.  While this may not matter to all, but when it comes to putting something under the TV in the living room, not everyone wants a mATX case or bigger stuffed in there.  Their 'console killer' builds are just 'huge' compared to a console.  So far every cased used in this thread is too tall to fit inside the shelf of a common Ikea Kallax.  These builds won't 'jive' with a lot of 'entertainment center' furniture.

remember its a '''console''' killer meaning the pc not the os and the peripherals. OS's can be free and you can find a keyboard and mouse anywhere. its the pc we are trying to compare. and yeah i know the playstation comes with a remote and OS, but since sony is so big, they can probably give them away for free.

[Samson_ST]

2 hours ago, aisle9 said:

Shop used, my friend.

 

Here's the best I can do with new parts, and I made compromises here that I'm not happy with:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($79.00 @ Scorptec) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H110M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($74.00 @ IJK) 
Memory: G.Skill - NT Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($89.00 @ Umart) 
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($62.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 560 2GB PULSE Video Card  ($148.00 @ Umart) 
Case: Silverstone - PS09B MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($45.00 @ Umart) 
Power Supply: Corsair - CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($75.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Total: $572.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-13 06:07 AEST+1000

 

I'll spoil the fun for you: even coming in over budget (~$450 USD), you're not going to beat a PS4 Pro with that.

 

Check out some Tech YES City videos on YouTube. If you can get your hands on something like a used Dell Optiplex mini tower with an Ivy-ish i5 or i7 in it, you can swap in a better PSU, plug in a 1060/480 tier GPU and go gaming.

ok thanks

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, Samson_ST said:

OS's can be free

I'm not quite sure if you're advocating piracy or if you think that Linux is a suitable gaming solution...

[Samson_ST]

Just now, AshleyAshes said:

I'm not quite sure if you're advocating piracy or if you think that Linux is a suitable gaming solution...

i'm not saying that i do it, but hey u gotta do what u gotta do

[Samson_ST]

1 minute ago, AshleyAshes said:

I'm not quite sure if you're advocating piracy or if you think that Linux is a suitable gaming solution...

 

2 hours ago, aisle9 said:

Shop used, my friend.

 

Here's the best I can do with new parts, and I made compromises here that I'm not happy with:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($79.00 @ Scorptec) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H110M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($74.00 @ IJK) 
Memory: G.Skill - NT Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($89.00 @ Umart) 
Storage: Seagate - BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($62.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 560 2GB PULSE Video Card  ($148.00 @ Umart) 
Case: Silverstone - PS09B MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($45.00 @ Umart) 
Power Supply: Corsair - CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($75.00 @ Shopping Express) 
Total: $572.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-08-13 06:07 AEST+1000

 

I'll spoil the fun for you: even coming in over budget (~$450 USD), you're not going to beat a PS4 Pro with that.

 

Check out some Tech YES City videos on YouTube. If you can get your hands on something like a used Dell Optiplex mini tower with an Ivy-ish i5 or i7 in it, you can swap in a better PSU, plug in a 1060/480 tier GPU and go gaming.

 

2 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

This is a good thing to keep in mind.  I think a lot of people, my self included at one time, quickly dismissed the idea of having 3, 4, 5, or more "good" PCs in the house as an insane endeavour for only the richest enthusiasts, but in reality, it doesn't have to cost any more than running a single PC, since you only need to keep that 1 up to date, and everything in it that you replace just gets shifted down to the next PC in line, which in a way divides the effective cost of upgrading by the number of computers you have.

 

4 hours ago, markr54632 said:

You could get below that price point, but your not gonna get all new parts and possibly gonna have to look for a cheap prebuilt pc to start with.

 

Right now is a really good time for this with all of the back to school specials running.

 

If you wanted to build it yourself and beat that price I cant do pcpartpicker as it doesn't show combos.

 

Microcenter has a special on fx-8350 and mobo for 115

Pick up a used pair of ddr3 4gb sticks for 30

Pick up a used ssd for 20

Pick up a 1tb hard drive for 15-40

Pick up a 1050 or rx 560 for 80-120

Pick up the cheapest case you can find 15-50

 

Alternately

Spend 150-250 on a off lease or refurbished mini tower. Try to avoid hp and dell if you think you will want to change the case. You should be able to find something decent. Check the government auctions too, sometimes you can get something decent without a hard drive for next to nothing.

 

Spend 80-150 on a rx 560 or 1050.

 

Keep in mind most of your refurb and off lease pcs will come with a valid windows license. Which is 100 or so. Windows 10 free upgrade still works so get whatever's cheapest between 7 8.1 or 10. Upgrade immediately so you have a digital license, then run whatever you prefer.

 

Neither of these have any upgrade path, but should play most games on medium settings. My super cheap budget build will play doom on low-medium at 1080p pretty well. My exact build would run you 500 even. However i got my base prebuilt pc and case for free it would not have been my first choice. I am 240 into my build.

 

5 hours ago, Mooshi said:

I despise the term "console killer" because most builds with this name usually cost way more than a console which defeats the purpose. Or the build doesn't fit console dimensions and/or have crap specs.

 

Was gonna do some searching before work for ideas, but the annoying persistent attitude, being rude to others and generally not taking input seriously makes me reconsider.

 

Unless you trash-pick/get crazy eBay deals, you're not building anything worth the effort for gaming on 400usd* when factoring OS and peripherals.

 

Also noticed most recent link has AU, Australia has crap prices which makes this even more of an uphill struggle. Honestly, I'd try to find a 2nd-4th gen i7 off eBay and use the savings for at least a 1060. FX6300 and a GTX 1300 .. I'd rather be caught with an Xbox One or PS4.. or even spend more on an overpriced Switch from a scalper.

 

17 hours ago, Shura said:

Yes by going with a gtx 1030, you need to keep in mind about frame drops at 1080p. Your looking at raw performance and teraflops but it doesn't exactly work that way. Games on consoles are coded to run on the hardware with no middleman, games on PC have to run on top of the Os which does effect performance. In terms of numbers on paper it might be comparable but would it be able to run the games at smooth framerates? That's questionable. 

 

 

ive came done to this pc...

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/FV8Kr7

 

its only AUD $484

 

[vanished]

Just now, Samson_ST said:

ive came done to this pc...

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/FV8Kr7

 

its only AUD $484

 

A decent budget system I suppose but no console killer.  The fact is it's going to be a while before true "console killers" are a thing again - toward the end of the console product cycle, when the price is almost unchanged but PC hardware has progressed significantly, it will be possible once again to build a machine that truly beats it in every way, but while they're new, at least this time around, it seems they've got the crown for best performance / dollar.  That said, don't think you'll make off like a bandit getting one, it's like buying an ink jet printer.  Sure the upfront cost is unbeatably low, but that's for a reason.  Trust me, they make it back other ways, and then there's also something to be said for the experience you get during the lifespan of the device.

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, Samson_ST said:

ive came done to this pc...

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/FV8Kr7

 

its only AUD $484

...Wow, so you ask about a 'Console Killer PC' that can compete with the PS4 Pro at the same price and you come up with a PC that costs as much as  PS4 Pro but with the approximate performance of one third that of a Standard, non-Pro, PlayStation 4...

 

That's a right special kind of fail right there.

[Samson_ST]

Just now, AshleyAshes said:

...Wow, so you ask about a 'Console Killer PC' that can compete with the PS4 Pro at the same price and you come up with a PC that costs as much as  PS4 Pro but with the approximate performance of one third that of a Standard, non-Pro, PlayStation 4...

 

That's a right special kind of fail right there.

tell me how is it exactly one third of the performance of the ps4 pro

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, Samson_ST said:

tell me how is it exactly one third of the performance of the ps4 pro

No no, not one third of a PS4 Pro.  One third of a PS4.  You are WELL farther below a PS4 Pro there.

You can go just on the shader count of the APU.

 

The A8-7600 has a core config of 384:24:8, that's Shader Units, TMUs and ROPS.  On the other hand, the PS4, standard PS4, is 1152:72:32.  It's graphics core is literally, exactly, one third that of a PS4 without accounting for variation in GPU clock speed, that APU's graphics clockspeed is much slower than the GPU so with one third the chip, that chip will also run at a slower clock speed.

 

On the other hand the PS4 Pro has a core config of 2304:144:32.

 

In short, that APU is nothing compared to the PS4 Pro or the PS4... And you you wanna spend $450 on it.

[vanished]

34 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

No no, not one third of a PS4 Pro.  One third of a PS4.  You are WELL farther below a PS4 Pro there.

You can go just on the shader count of the APU.

 

The A8-7600 has a core config of 384:24:8, that's Shader Units, TMUs and ROPS.  On the other hand, the PS4, standard PS4, is 1152:72:32.  It's graphics core is literally, exactly, one third that of a PS4 without accounting for variation in GPU clock speed, that APU's graphics clockspeed is much slower than the GPU so with one third the chip, that chip will also run at a slower clock speed.

 

On the other hand the PS4 Pro has a core config of 2304:144:32.

 

In short, that APU is nothing compared to the PS4 Pro or the PS4... And you you wanna spend $450 on it.

Wait, are you counting the 1030 or not here?

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Wait, are you counting the 1030 or not here?

Oh was there a 1030 I missed?

Well that still comes up well short.  ...And who would use an APU with a discrete GPU???  You could get a cheaper CPU like the cheaper 'Athlons' on the same socket.

[markr54632]

That would be a good htpc assuming you used quiet fans or a good office computer.

 

I honestly think you'll be disappointed playing any newer game. 5-7 year old games will run good.

 

If you want a "console killer" you are going to have to shop around a lot and buy some things used.

 

Memory is cheap used so long as you stay with ddr3. 25-40 bucks will get you a pair of 4gb sticks.

 

Ssds are cheap used 20-30 will buy you a decent boot drive.

 

Hard drives are cheap used.

 

Try looking for off lease or used prebuilt for a base. For instance the i5-3470 computer I used as a base in my build can be found locally for about 200. I received mine as a freeby from a company that was upgrading.

 

Beating this budget is tough it will require a lot of shopping and penny pinching.

 

Also keep in mind a prebuilt will have a valid windows license to use. That's 100 dollars of your budget you can put into more memory or a better graphics card.

 

Also the 1030 is probably not the best choice. An rx 560 or 1050 is only a few dollars more.

[aisle9]

42 minutes ago, Samson_ST said:

ive came done to this pc...

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/FV8Kr7

 

its only AUD $484

I'm saying this not to be mean, but to try and encourage you to look at the used market if you want to touch a PS4 Pro at that price point:

 

That is one of the worst console-killer builds I've ever seen.

 

If you want a gaming PC out of that, you'd want to swap out the A8 for an Athlon X4 860K and overclock it to hell (on an aftermarket cooler), then ditch the 1030 and grab something like a 1050 Ti.

 

Again, with your budget and goals, go to the used market. You'll do much better for yourself.

[vanished]

Just now, AshleyAshes said:

Oh was there a 1030 I missed?

Well that still comes up well short.  ...And who would use an APU with a discrete GPU???  You could get a cheaper CPU like the cheaper 'Athlons' on the same socket.

Yes, there was a 1030   It's around a 750 Ti iirc which was pretty decent for a long time and is still usable for older things