Starting to code!

[Ucthar]

Hello there programmers!

 

I am a 16 year old Belgium student and I am intrested in coding! I've never done it before, tried around with codecacademy.com, but didn't like the format of learning
I had a hard time understanding what they meant (as English isn't my foreign language).
Do you guys have any tips for a starting programmer who wants to learn Java (if possible in Dutch?).

 

Kind regards,
Ucthar AKA Arthur

[42thgamer]

Hey I am from Belgium too! And about te same age!

I learned to code with codeacademy.com, I liked the format. 

Do you know the site hackflag.org? It is full with tutorials in Dutch, it isn't really something for me but it might be the thing you are looking for!

I can't code much but I have very basic knowledge so I might be able to help you, if you want we can try a tutorial together! I would love to do it (I want to restart for a while)!

We can discus it in Dutch (my native language)! 

 

[Angry Badger]

If you've got some money to spend, you can buy yourself a book on Java and read that. Most textbooks will have problems to solve for each chapter. A textbook will be able to go much more in-depth than most of the simple tutorials that you find online, which in comparison often tends to skip or forget to include important details and concepts.

[Ucthar]

Thanks for all the responds, I've decided I'm going to buy a book with the basic commands and instructions.

[Nuluvius]

2 hours ago, Raxzzer said:

If you've got some money to spend, you can buy yourself a book on Java and read that.

I say this alot in response to these statements; it's not really worth it given the speed of progress of the industry.

 

Pluralsight & Linda.com for learning/referencing and Codewars for real world practice are far superior and more context relevant resources.

1 hour ago, Ucthar said:

I've decided I'm going to buy a book with the basic commands and instructions.

Absolutely insane when you can get just as much and more from the language documentation and official tutorials...

[Ucthar]

One of my online friends it's safe to buy books for Java because that doesn't change that much.
I still need to learn all the basics! 

(I can't change it now as I ordered the book right now :D)

 

Still thanks for the tips tho!

[Angry Badger]

4 hours ago, Nuluvius said:

I say this alot in response to these statements; it's not really worth it given the speed of progress of the industry.

 

Pluralsight & Linda.com for learning/referencing and Codewars for real world practice are far superior and more context relevant resources.

Absolutely insane when you can get just as much and more from the language documentation and official tutorials...

I don't agree in this specific case. If you're just learning the basics, it's safe to buy textbooks since programming languages rarely change that much over time, especially the core concepts of it. For a beginner, the official documentation can be confusing and hard to understand, and a lot of online tutorials provides lackluster explanations and poor examples.

 

For learning and understanding the basics properly, I think a book would be a good idea. 

[Nuluvius]

3 hours ago, Raxzzer said:

For learning and understanding the basics properly, I think a book would be a good idea. 

Sure, ultimately we're all different  It's just that I've never actually bought or otherwise owned one since I've always largely viewed them as a waste of time. It seems somewhat counter intuitive to try to statically capture what is inherently fluid and always in a state of evolution and change.

 

I do however strongly disagree with the following:

3 hours ago, Raxzzer said:

...programming languages rarely change that much over time...

They can change significantly over time, a really good example would be C++ 98 vs current; it would be considered really bad form to be using raw pointers now (only in very specific scenarios) but all books obviously promoted their use (since that was all one could do at the time).

3 hours ago, Raxzzer said:

...a lot of online tutorials provides lackluster explanations and poor examples.

You should check out those resources that I provided, they may change your preconceptions.

[Angry Badger]

4 hours ago, Nuluvius said:

Sure, ultimately we're all different  It's just that I've never actually bought or otherwise owned one since I've always largely viewed them as a waste of time. It seems somewhat counter intuitive to try to statically capture what is inherently fluid and always in a state of evolution and change.

 

I do however strongly disagree with the following:

They can change significantly over time, a really good example would be C++ 98 vs current; it would be considered really bad form to be using raw pointers now (only in very specific scenarios) but all books obviously promoted their use (since that was all one could do at the time).

You should check out those resources that I provided, they may change your preconceptions.

I bought the textbooks for my first year in comp. engineering, and I don't regret it at all. The thing is, you don't need programming textbooks to last for many years. I had my first one for a year before I mostly got the hang of Java, and it's very unlikely that the basics of a programming language like Java is going to change drastically over a year or two, and you likely won't need that much time to go through a programming book anyway if you're reading often - even if you were to do every single assignment in the book.

The point of an introductionary book isn't to be an everlasting, up-to-date source of programming knowledge, it's supposed to aid you in understanding the basic concepts as smoothly as possible with good quality content. It's not a waste of time if your expectations are in the right place, and as as someone with some programming experience it can be easy to underestimate how much effort it can take to develop the way of thinking which is required in programming, especially if you're a quick learner like a lot of the people giving advice here are.

 

Also, it was more relatively speaking when I meant that programming languages don't change much over time, and I should have included that I meant most of the core aspects of them with some exceptions(also, I wouldn't mention C++ here either since it's a horrible idea to introduce that to newbie programmers). In this case, I really doubt that the book would end up outdated while reading it if a more recent edition was bought. 

 

In the end, I'm not saying that online resources are outright terrible, but for just starting somewhere I think a lot of tutorials and official documentation isn't exactly optimal when explaning programming in a detailed and understandable manner is the first priority. I think a lot of people are better able to cope with simpler learning material when they get some experience.

[Beskamir]

I suggest starting with Python and then learning C# or Java followed by C/C++. That's probably the best way to become broadly skilled in the industry.

 

Gonna repost the resource guide I made for a friend cause I think it's pretty good.

 

ResourceGuide.pdf

[Nuluvius]

19 minutes ago, ElfFriend said:

Gonna repost the resource guide I made for a friend cause I think it's pretty good.

 

ResourceGuide.pdf

Have you considered adding some theory to that?

[Beskamir]

1 minute ago, Nuluvius said:

Have you considered adding some theory to that?

Yes but I decided not to since the focus of that was to get someone started with writing code even if that code isn't all that great. I guess I sort of feared a whole bunch of theory stuff would scare people off... idk if you think you can add a bit on theory to that then feel free to take what I've done and expand it to include a section on theory.

 

I also considered making the resource guide in a "website" (basically markdown) format hosted on github so other people could contribute to it as they see fit but for some reason I ended up opting for just writing it in word.

[Ucthar]

Update on coding:

I've recieved the book now and started coding with Java using Eclipse. I've learned alot by now, but it's certainly not easy :).
Thank you all for the tips / comments.

 

Greets,
Ucthar

[Nuluvius]

3 minutes ago, Ucthar said:

I've recieved the book now and started coding with Java using Eclipse.

Case and point.

 

Not the best tool for the job by today's standards... You should be using IntelliJ.

[Ucthar]

1 hour ago, Nuluvius said:

Case and point.

 

Not the best tool for the job by today's standards... You should be using IntelliJ.

I'm using Eclipse because the book is also explaining everything with Eclipse!
I might check out InteliJ later!

[vorticalbox]

8 minutes ago, Ucthar said:

I'm using Eclipse because the book is also explaining everything with Eclipse!
I might check out InteliJ later!

shouldn't matter, java is java whether you're writing it I'm Eclipse, InteliJ or notepad. 

[Angry Badger]

3 hours ago, Nuluvius said:

Case and point.

 

Not the best tool for the job by today's standards... You should be using IntelliJ.

I think that depends a little on which version you can get access to. If you can't get the full version, IntelliJ is completely useless in my opinion. If you can get access to the full version however, it's worth it. I started out with the community version of IntelliJ, but had to ditch it when I moved onto learning about databases and different frameworks.

 

The "free" version of IntelliJ doesn't seem to support important stuff like Java EE, Spring, Hibernate and other popular frameworks, in addition to lacking SQL and dabatase tools support. I didn't try doing anything Javascript-related in the community version, but I don't think it supports that either. It was a shame, since I liked it very much, but I found it impossible to use a tool that couldn't offer the essentials, with the full version sporting a price tag which I couldn't afford.

 

Eclipse is also an excellent IDE when it all comes down to it even though it's free, which I'm guessing is the reason why it's widley used in online/textbook demonstrations and examples. And if you somehow manage to get a student license for IntelliJ, you'll have to pay for it after you graduate. It's therefore a bit risky to get used to an IDE which you may not be able to afford and won't include a lot of essential features in the community version, but that's just my opinion.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Honestly we can argue all day about IDEs and editors and crap. Just use what works best for you. 

[Nuluvius]

14 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Honestly we can argue all day about IDEs and editors and crap. Just use what works best for you. 

Yes we can however in this particular context it's a little bit more than 'just the IDE'. It's really about exposure to current industry relevant tools and best practices; IntelliJ is built upon their ReSharper technology (another industry de facto standard) and it offers a vastly superior environment for developing in Java.

 

Arguments such as:

15 hours ago, Raxzzer said:

I think that depends a little on which version you can get access to. If you can't get the full version, IntelliJ is completely useless in my opinion. If you can get access to the full version however, it's worth it. I started out with the community version of IntelliJ, but had to ditch it when I moved onto learning about databases and different frameworks.

 

The "free" version of IntelliJ doesn't seem to support important stuff like Java EE, Spring, Hibernate and other popular frameworks, in addition to lacking SQL and dabatase tools support. I didn't try doing anything Javascript-related in the community version, but I don't think it supports that either. It was a shame, since I liked it very much, but I found it impossible to use a tool that couldn't offer the essentials, with the full version sporting a price tag which I couldn't afford.

 

Eclipse is also an excellent IDE when it all comes down to it even though it's free, which I'm guessing is the reason why it's widley used in online/textbook demonstrations and examples. And if you somehow manage to get a student license for IntelliJ, you'll have to pay for it after you graduate. It's therefore a bit risky to get used to an IDE which you may not be able to afford and won't include a lot of essential features in the community version, but that's just my opinion.

Are by and large moot in this regards. Once one gets to industry (which is what's important) then they will be using this tool. No company that is serious about Java development would be using anything else. It's just not as pragmatic or productive to do otherwise; a simple case and a great example of 'it's the right tool for the job'. That's not based on speculation or subjectivity, but my own real world experiences. Yes there's a niche but that's very specific and/or dependant on sector - maybe embedded for example.

 

Let me also stress that there's nothing wrong with Eclipse, it's great, I love it - for embedded C++, often in RTOSs. That's a really good use case for it.

[Mira Yurizaki]

While I do think exposure to such tools is nice, I don't think it's really required for the job that you must have experience in a particular IDE or environment. Learning the IDE used and setup environment should be expected as part of the learning process of getting acclimated to how things run at the company because every company is going to be different.

 

I mean, I don't think I've seen a job posting where knowing how to use a particular development environment was a must.

[Nuluvius]

7 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I don't think it's really required for the job that you must have experience in a particular IDE or environment.

Of course not and that wasn't my point. That would in fact be quite a ridiculous assumption 

[Dat Guy]

20 hours ago, edward30 said:

I'd like to offer up a combination of vim or emacs

You can run Vim inside Emacs.

[Rb2006]

A good idea is to code in Python or HTML

[Dat Guy]

You can't code in HTML.