Need some idea

[Tawhid]

Hi everyone 
Just joined this forum .

 

Im looking for some idea for my personal project.

 

I need to build a cost efficient workstation system !

 

My goal is to build a decent system that i can run at least 5 VM (virtualbox) environment with server 2012. Need to setup a lab  for personal testing purpose . so any input is appreciated.

 

Feel free to comment and suggest a cost efficient config!

[minibois]

Check that 8 cores for cheap or whatever video from LTT a year or two ago.

That might be a nice option for you. 

 

Add some 16GB RAM and you're set.

 

Oh and welcome

[Tawhid]

ah that video with 150$ is a good video but im looking to really keep a case on ..lol...i wouldn't want a 300 watts electric shock ...so a decent config with a 500-1000$ max budget what can be built ?

 

what is should do :

looking for a decent config that can do at least 4 vm  simultaneously and run server 2016

and preferably  something that consume less power ...

 

what you guys think ? is the budget to low ? or should i just get a server like dell ?

 

 

[domandric034]

Very very powerful workstation for $1300 : 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2665 2.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($153.80 @ Amazon) 
CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2665 2.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($153.80 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.84 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.84 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: ASRock - EP2C602-4L/D16 SSI EEB Dual-CPU LGA2011 Motherboard  ($338.62 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston - HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($115.79 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston - HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($59.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($99.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($87.90 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - Radeon RX 460 2GB WINDFORCE OC Video Card  ($119.98 @ Amazon) 
Case: Rosewill - RISE Glow ATX Full Tower Case  ($89.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($85.42 @ Amazon) 
Total: $1364.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-15 02:53 EDT-0400

 

No needs for Windows Server 2012. Windows 10 Pro supports dual socket.

[Tawhid]

2 minutes ago, domandric034 said:

Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($85.42 @ Amazon) 
 

is a 650 watts that necessary ? that might just run up the electric bill LOL

[domandric034]

Just now, Tawhid said:

is a 650 watts that necessary ?

Uses 527 W.

[Metalshark]

10 hours ago, Tawhid said:

Hi everyone 
Just joined this forum .

 

Im looking for some idea for my personal project.

 

I need to build a cost efficient workstation system !

 

My goal is to build a decent system that i can run at least 5 VM (virtualbox) environment with server 2012. Need to setup a lab  for personal testing purpose . so any input is appreciated.

 

Feel free to comment and suggest a cost efficient config!

You may want to consider the licensing element at that budget. Apologies here if I've got the wrong end of the stick. With Windows Server 2012 Standard edition (available for $200-300) you can only run it inside 2 VMs, not 5. If you are using Windows Server 2012 as the host and something like Linux VMs then that isn't an issue, otherwise you need to look at the Data Center license for Server 2012 which will usually be cheaper under a subscription license due to incentives and other licenses required for a business. If you are doing this for home/personal development then getting a Visual Studio MSDN license will allow you several licenses for things like this for evaluation.

 

Will allow others to comment on hardware as am in the UK and prices wont translate. Just be careful you'll pay more for electricity/cooling if you go for too old a Xeon.

[domandric034]

1 minute ago, Metalshark said:

You may want to consider the licensing element at that budget. Apologies here if I've got the wrong end of the stick. With Windows Server 2012 Standard edition (available for $200-300) you can only run it inside 2 VMs, not 5. If you are using Windows Server 2012 as the host and something like Linux VMs then that isn't an issue, otherwise you need to look at the Data Center license for Server 2012 which will usually be cheaper under a subscription license due to incentives and other licenses required for a business. If you are doing this for home/personal development then getting a Visual Studio MSDN license will allow you several licenses for things like this for evaluation.

 

Will allow others to comment on hardware as am in the UK and prices wont translate. Just be careful you'll pay more for electricity/cooling if you go for too old a Xeon.

It is better then to get Windows 10 Pro for $30 on Kinguin. Still has multi socket support and Hyper V as VM hypervisor.

[Tawhid]

3 minutes ago, Metalshark said:

You may want to consider the licensing element at that budget. Apologies here if I've got the wrong end of the stick. With Windows Server 2012 Standard edition (available for $200-300) you can only run it inside 2 VMs, not 5. If you are using Windows Server 2012 as the host and something like Linux VMs then that isn't an issue, otherwise you need to look at the Data Center license for Server 2012 which will usually be cheaper under a subscription license due to incentives and other licenses required for a business. If you are doing this for home/personal development then getting a Visual Studio MSDN license will allow you several licenses for things like this for evaluation.

 

Will allow others to comment on hardware as am in the UK and prices wont translate. Just be careful you'll pay more for electricity/cooling if you go for too old a Xeon.

thanks for the info im not too worried about the os setup and yes this is for personal use.
jut looking for a cost efficient hardware setup that can technically handle this load.without BSOD LOL

[Metalshark]

Just now, domandric034 said:

It is better then to get Windows 10 Pro for $30 on Kinguin. Still has multi socket support and Hyper V as VM hypervisor.

You can run Windows Server or 10 as the host. But you can't use an OEM license for the guest OS and need retail (or subscription) license per guest instance.

[Tawhid]

edited : project is for personal use .

[domandric034]

Just now, Metalshark said:

You can run Windows Server or 10 as the host. But you can't use an OEM license for the guest OS and need retail (or subscription) license per guest instance.

I know you need license for Guest OS but still we are talking about VM hypervisor

[domandric034]

Just now, Tawhid said:

edited : project is for personal use .

EDIT : Motheboard has 2 usb ports. Here is fixed version. Added PCI expansion card: 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2665 2.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($153.80 @ Amazon) 
CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2665 2.4GHz 8-Core Processor  ($153.80 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.84 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($29.84 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: ASRock - EP2C602-4L/D16 SSI EEB Dual-CPU LGA2011 Motherboard  ($338.62 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston - HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($115.79 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston - HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($59.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Crucial - MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($99.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($87.90 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - Radeon RX 460 2GB WINDFORCE OC Video Card  ($119.98 @ Amazon) 
Case: Rosewill - RISE Glow ATX Full Tower Case  ($89.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($85.42 @ Amazon) 
Other: Rosewill 4+1 VIA USB 2.0 PCI Adapter Model RC-103  ($10.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $1375.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-15 03:02 EDT-0400

[Tawhid]

3 minutes ago, Metalshark said:

You can run Windows Server or 10 as the host. But you can't use an OEM license for the guest OS and need retail (or subscription) license per guest instance.

Main os will run server 2016 and other vm are client os ..win10 again this is purely for learning LAB personal use.

want to build 1 machine that i can use it for testing purpose so i have to use vm a lot.

Goal is to be able to run a a machine all day .with as low of power consumption as possible.

[Metalshark]

5 minutes ago, Tawhid said:

Main os will run server 2016 and other vm are client os ..win10 again this is purely for learning LAB personal use.

Cool - will lay off with the licensing 

 

We built a machine about a month ago re-using an old graphics card so a friend could learn Kubernetes which we ran on VMs using vmWare Workstation (similar way of working as VirtualBox). Looking at the exchange rate it came in at just over $700. Here were the pertinent parts.

 

Case
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CiT-G-Force-Gaming-Computer-PC-Window-Case-No-PSU-Red-3-x-120mm-Fan-USB-3-0-/222042837050?hash=item33b2c8d03a:g:Hr4AAOSwAuNW2bpn

£36.95

 

PSU
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsair-VS550-550W-PSU-80-Plus-Rated-ATX-PC-Power-Supply-CP-9020097-UK-/332040735400?hash=item4d4f2b8aa8:g:iC0AAOSwA4dWFjXF
£39.50

 

Motherboard
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gigabyte-GA-X99-UD4-motherboard-v1-0-intel-LGA2011-3-DDR4-sata-3-usb-3-ATX-mobo-/192192012498?hash=item2cbf8960d2:g:4kAAAOSwIQdZH2EF
£29.55

 

Processor
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-E5-1620-3-6GHz-3-8GHz-LGA-2011-Quad-Core-10MB-SR0LC-SAME-AS-I7-3820-/252920173801?hash=item3ae33794e9:g:48gAAOSwiYFXKksr
£38.95

 

Processor Cooler
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-i11-Compact-Performance-CPU-Cooler-LGA2011-1156-1155-1150-/181708734807?hash=item2a4eaf4157:g:RcYAAOSw2s1U0Qkl
£26.97

 

RAM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-16GB-2x8GB-DDR4-2133MHz-PC4-17000-Desktop-RAM-Memory-for-DESKTOP-PC-/302225523189?hash=item465e0b81f5:g:SVsAAOSw-0xYkdfk
£70.38

 

SSD
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-750-EVO-250GB-SSD-2-5-Inch-SATA-III-Internal-Solid-State-Drive-/272679987918?hash=item3f7cfe6ace:g:cVcAAOSwKIpWC60s
£79.90

 

HDD
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagate-3-5-2TB-2000GB-SATA-HDD-Hard-Disk-Drive-Desktop-ST2000DM001-/252828269826?hash=item3addbd3d02:g:inUAAOSw32lY1Svd
£44.95

[domandric034]

2 minutes ago, Metalshark said:

Cool - will lay off with the licensing 

 

We built a machine about a month ago re-using an old graphics card so a friend could learn Kubernetes which we ran on VMs using vmWare Workstation (similar way of working as VirtualBox). Looking at the exchange rate it came in at just over $700. Here were the pertinent parts.

 

Case
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CiT-G-Force-Gaming-Computer-PC-Window-Case-No-PSU-Red-3-x-120mm-Fan-USB-3-0-/222042837050?hash=item33b2c8d03a:g:Hr4AAOSwAuNW2bpn

£36.95

 

PSU
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsair-VS550-550W-PSU-80-Plus-Rated-ATX-PC-Power-Supply-CP-9020097-UK-/332040735400?hash=item4d4f2b8aa8:g:iC0AAOSwA4dWFjXF
£39.50

 

Motherboard
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gigabyte-GA-X99-UD4-motherboard-v1-0-intel-LGA2011-3-DDR4-sata-3-usb-3-ATX-mobo-/192192012498?hash=item2cbf8960d2:g:4kAAAOSwIQdZH2EF
£29.55

 

Processor
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-E5-1620-3-6GHz-3-8GHz-LGA-2011-Quad-Core-10MB-SR0LC-SAME-AS-I7-3820-/252920173801?hash=item3ae33794e9:g:48gAAOSwiYFXKksr
£38.95

 

Processor Cooler
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-i11-Compact-Performance-CPU-Cooler-LGA2011-1156-1155-1150-/181708734807?hash=item2a4eaf4157:g:RcYAAOSw2s1U0Qkl
£26.97

 

RAM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-16GB-2x8GB-DDR4-2133MHz-PC4-17000-Desktop-RAM-Memory-for-DESKTOP-PC-/302225523189?hash=item465e0b81f5:g:SVsAAOSw-0xYkdfk
£70.38

 

SSD
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-750-EVO-250GB-SSD-2-5-Inch-SATA-III-Internal-Solid-State-Drive-/272679987918?hash=item3f7cfe6ace:g:cVcAAOSwKIpWC60s
£79.90

 

HDD
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagate-3-5-2TB-2000GB-SATA-HDD-Hard-Disk-Drive-Desktop-ST2000DM001-/252828269826?hash=item3addbd3d02:g:inUAAOSw32lY1Svd
£44.95

Quad cores are not good for VM's even with HT and Seagate is shit in terms of reliability.

[Tawhid]

1 minute ago, Metalshark said:

Cool - will lay off with the licensing 

 

We built a machine about a month ago re-using an old graphics card so a friend could learn Kubernetes which we ran on VMs using vmWare Workstation (similar way of working as VirtualBox). Looking at the exchange rate it came in at just over $700. Here were the pertinent parts.

 

Case
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CiT-G-Force-Gaming-Computer-PC-Window-Case-No-PSU-Red-3-x-120mm-Fan-USB-3-0-/222042837050?hash=item33b2c8d03a:g:Hr4AAOSwAuNW2bpn

£36.95

 

PSU
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Corsair-VS550-550W-PSU-80-Plus-Rated-ATX-PC-Power-Supply-CP-9020097-UK-/332040735400?hash=item4d4f2b8aa8:g:iC0AAOSwA4dWFjXF
£39.50

 

Motherboard
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gigabyte-GA-X99-UD4-motherboard-v1-0-intel-LGA2011-3-DDR4-sata-3-usb-3-ATX-mobo-/192192012498?hash=item2cbf8960d2:g:4kAAAOSwIQdZH2EF
£29.55

 

Processor
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-E5-1620-3-6GHz-3-8GHz-LGA-2011-Quad-Core-10MB-SR0LC-SAME-AS-I7-3820-/252920173801?hash=item3ae33794e9:g:48gAAOSwiYFXKksr
£38.95

 

Processor Cooler
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arctic-Cooling-Freezer-i11-Compact-Performance-CPU-Cooler-LGA2011-1156-1155-1150-/181708734807?hash=item2a4eaf4157:g:RcYAAOSw2s1U0Qkl
£26.97

 

RAM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-16GB-2x8GB-DDR4-2133MHz-PC4-17000-Desktop-RAM-Memory-for-DESKTOP-PC-/302225523189?hash=item465e0b81f5:g:SVsAAOSw-0xYkdfk
£70.38

 

SSD
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-750-EVO-250GB-SSD-2-5-Inch-SATA-III-Internal-Solid-State-Drive-/272679987918?hash=item3f7cfe6ace:g:cVcAAOSwKIpWC60s
£79.90

 

HDD
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagate-3-5-2TB-2000GB-SATA-HDD-Hard-Disk-Drive-Desktop-ST2000DM001-/252828269826?hash=item3addbd3d02:g:inUAAOSw32lY1Svd
£44.95

whats the power consumption like ?

[Metalshark]

Just now, Tawhid said:

whats the power consumption like ?

Power consumption was poor but was a cheap rig for experimentation. According to our Den wall plugs it was 300-500w depending on usage.

 

Got decent speeds out of it all things considered, but as domandric034 mentions it was not optimal - but found it fast enough for experimentation.

[Metalshark]

7 minutes ago, domandric034 said:

Quad cores are not good for VM's even with HT and Seagate is shit in terms of reliability.

Depends on how many VMs and memory speed with quad cores (keep an eye on L2 cache size). Would have agreed with you completely on the Seagate point until dealing with Western Digital after the big floods a few years ago. Primary use case is CCTV recorders on clients sites where they cook and can be subject to vibration (in a utility room with washing machines and tumble dryers). WD drives manufactured after the floods just keep failing us compared to Seagate. Appreciate that is our use case - but am assuming that's similar to cheap parts in a hot case.

[Tawhid]

i still have hard time to believe do we really need a 650 watts power supply ..any build that you can suggest using max 300w power supply ?

[Metalshark]

12 minutes ago, Tawhid said:

i still have hard time to believe do we really need a 650 watts power supply ..any build that you can suggest using max 300w power supply ?

If you're after low power with Virtualisation Support then getting a laptop based on the i3-7130U with upgradeable RAM will be cheap, reliable, low power (no BSODs) but SLOW (probably fast enough for experimenting/learning).

 

Otherwise have a look at using a second hand Core™ i7-3770 as your basis.

 

With both of these the low levels of L2 cache means you can expect poor database speeds, etc from the guests. But the power draw will be low and you can virtualise with hardware support and no problems beyond speed. Please also note the the 2 cores on the i3 may be an issue, but its fine if you're looking at the interaction between two VMs at a time, whilst having 5 running.

 

 

[domandric034]

9 hours ago, Tawhid said:

i still have hard time to believe do we really need a 650 watts power supply ..any build that you can suggest using max 300w power supply ?

300w build is not possiable on virtualization workstations cause of horse power you are getting to run all those vm's. 

9 hours ago, Metalshark said:

If you're after low power with Virtualisation Support then getting a laptop based on the i3-7130U with upgradeable RAM will be cheap, reliable, low power (no BSODs) but SLOW (probably fast enough for experimenting/learning).

 

Otherwise have a look at using a second hand Core™ i7-3770 as your basis.

 

With both of these the low levels of L2 cache means you can expect poor database speeds, etc from the guests. But the power draw will be low and you can virtualise with hardware support and no problems beyond speed. Please also note the the 2 cores on the i3 may be an issue, but its fine if you're looking at the interaction between two VMs at a time, whilst having 5 running.

 

 

Xeon is very very powerful virtualization CPU.

i3 is piece of shit for VM's. Rather get A10 APU.

i7 is also nice virtualization CPU but Xeon's are way more recommended for professional use and lab testings.

[Metalshark]

3 hours ago, domandric034 said:

300w build is not possiable on virtualization workstations cause of horse power you are getting to run all those vm's. 

Xeon is very very powerful virtualization CPU.

i3 is piece of shit for VM's. Rather get A10 APU.

i7 is also nice virtualization CPU but Xeon's are way more recommended for professional use and lab testings.

An i3 will use less power whilst still offering native virtualisation support though. Agreed an A10 would be faster and is another tier to consider between the i3 and the i7.

 

Think we can agree that what you'll need to run a proper VM environment begins at a power rating higher than is desirable. Therefore it is likely to be what compromises are you willing to live with and what kind of 5 VM scenarios do you want to simulate/run and explore?

 

If there is a 300w ceiling what are you trying to run concurrently? Are you only looking at the interactions between 2 VMs at a time, 3 VMs or more (with the others doing minimal background work)? Are you trying to get two database HA running for instance but aren't concerned with database throughout for learning?

[Tawhid]

5 hours ago, Metalshark said:

An i3 will use less power whilst still offering native virtualisation support though. Agreed an A10 would be faster and is another tier to consider between the i3 and the i7.

 

Think we can agree that what you'll need to run a proper VM environment begins at a power rating higher than is desirable. Therefore it is likely to be what compromises are you willing to live with and what kind of 5 VM scenarios do you want to simulate/run and explore?

 

If there is a 300w ceiling what are you trying to run concurrently? Are you only looking at the interactions between 2 VMs at a time, 3 VMs or more (with the others doing minimal background work)? Are you trying to get two database HA running for instance but aren't concerned with database throughout for learning?

 

thanks for the great input really appreciate it

if you don't mind could you give your opinion on the configs found there :which one out of this list you think is a decent config ?

 

http://www.techspot.com/review/1155-affordable-dual-xeon-pc/page2.html

[Metalshark]

5 hours ago, Tawhid said:

 

thanks for the great input really appreciate it

if you don't mind could you give your opinion on the configs found there :which one out of this list you think is a decent config ?

 

http://www.techspot.com/review/1155-affordable-dual-xeon-pc/page2.html

Here are some considerations looking at that line-up:

1. They feature 980 Ti graphics cards, you can use the on-chip graphics (where applicable) or a low powered external graphics card to reduce power requirements and temperatures.
2. Using an SSD on its own will also reduce power requirements if the capacity is enough for the testing/educational scenarios you wish to run. When helping others with educational rigs (mostly for learning containerization with VMs just being setup to simulate multiple servers) we tend to use an SSD and a spinning disk with Intel SRT as a cheap way to get the best of both and be able to create large data-sets for experimentation.
3. The i3 4350 lacks Virtualised IO support so you can't assign a physical device to a VM and learn how that works. If you're looking to learn about that through practice then you'll want to avoid that chip (please note the i3-7130U I mentioned above does come with Virtualised IO support).
4. The i3 4350, i5 4690K, A10 7870K and FX 8350 all have a low(er) amount of cache. CPU cache size is important when running multiple VMs and expecting them to perform well. So a good rule of thumb if you're starting and wanted to experiment with VMs is to have 1 core per VM that you want running fully at a time. Then make sure you have at least 1MB (preferably 2MB) of CPU cache per VM that is running at all. So ideally you'd be looking for 5-10MB as a minimum for running 5 VMs at once, then 2-5 cores minimum depending on how many VMs you are expecting to be running at full speed at once.

Knowing a bit more about what you'd like to be experimenting with and what those 5 VMs would be running helps a lot here, as to meet that 300w limit it requires looking at compromises.