Networking confusion

[tronder]

Hi guys just got a new switch, need a bit of help trying to access it.

So my setup is Modem on 192.168.0.1 => Router 192.168.1.1 => Switch 192.168.0.236 

and my computer is on 192.168.1.4
My switch keeps timing out when i enter the IP....

[Falconevo]

You will need to configure the switch on the IP subnet of 192.168.1.0/24 if you want to communicate with it from the PC.

 

The Switch IP is solely for management, it doesn't need the same IP range as the modem.  Ideally I would be looking at setting your modem in bridge mode rather than having a double-NAT which is what it looks like judging from your IP address arrangement.

 

Set the switch to 192.168.1.236 / 255.255.255.0 then look in to setting the modem in bridge mode and configuring the router to have the public IP address rather than the modem.

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

Just now, Falconevo said:

You will need to configure the switch on the IP subnet of 192.168.1.0/24 if you want to communicate with it from the PC.

 

The Switch IP is solely for management, it doesn't need the same IP range as the modem.  Ideally I would be looking at setting your modem in bridge mode rather than having a double-NAT which is what it looks like judging from your IP address arrangement.

 

Set the switch to 192.168.1.236 / 255.255.255.0 then look in to setting the modem in bridge mode and configuring the router to have the public IP address rather than the modem.

double nat is fine i'm currently running a hexa nat stop spreading the nat myth

[tronder]

6 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

Snip

4 minutes ago, Alaradia said:

double nat is fine i'm currently running a hexa nat stop spreading the nat myth

 

Hi guys i understand that im running a double nat and the only reason for that is, it was originally in bridge mode but then it crapped itself and for some reason wasnt working properly in bridge mode hence why i double port forward to make it work. (pain in the ass but works)

 

So i get the changing it to the same subnet of 192.168.1.(Something) but how do i change it if i can't access the management software or web interface?

[BubblyCharizard]

3 minutes ago, Alaradia said:

double nat is fine i'm currently running a hexa nat stop spreading the nat myth

the problem is that multiple NAT can be hard to diagnose where problems lie, and can increase latency between routers.

 

for most users, multiple NATing is not required, and unless implemented properly, can have a detrimental impact on the end user's network

 

 

[Falconevo]

12 minutes ago, Alaradia said:

double nat is fine i'm currently running a hexa nat stop spreading the nat myth

Not spreading a myth at all, bare in mind that OP is posting about a very simple change required.  Maybe I assumed people aren't aware of these things so I thought it best to make people aware and pass on some advice.

 

Not sure why you have got your back up about it, people are here asking for assistance.

*edit* seen as OP

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

Just now, tronder said:

Hi guys i understand that im running a double nat and the only reason for that is, it was originally in bridge mode but then it crapped itself and for some reason wasnt working properly in bridge mode hence why i double port forward to make it work. (pain in the ass but works)

 

So i get the changing it to the same subnet of 192.168.1.(Something) but how do i change it if i can't access the management software or web interface?

consumer switches don't tend to have web interfaces they just work

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

Just now, Falconevo said:

Not spreading a myth at all, bare in mind that you are posting about a very simple change required.  Maybe I assumed you aren't aware of these things so I thought it best to make you aware and pass on some advice.

 

Not sure why you have got your back up about it, you are here asking for assistance.

i'm not op 

[BubblyCharizard]

Just now, tronder said:

So i get the changing it to the same subnet of 192.168.1.(Something) but how do i change it if i can't access the management software or web interface?

set a static IP in your PC temporarily that is in the same subnet as the switch currently is, then once you apply the changes, you can go back to DHCP (or static on the old subnet)

[Falconevo]

2 minutes ago, tronder said:

Hi guys i understand that im running a double nat and the only reason for that is, it was originally in bridge mode but then it crapped itself and for some reason wasnt working properly in bridge mode hence why i double port forward to make it work. (pain in the ass but works)

 

So i get the changing it to the same subnet of 192.168.1.(Something) but how do i change it if i can't access the management software or web interface?

Grab a laptop if you have one and plug it in to a spare port on the switch, set the interface IP to 192.168.0.50 / 255.255.255.0 manually then access the switch either via SSH or if it has one a web GUI on 192.168.0.236. 

 

Once you make the change and update to the new IP you will immediately lose access to the SSH / WebGUI but now should be able to access on the normal network via 192.168.1.236.

[Falconevo]

7 minutes ago, Alaradia said:

i'm not op 

ye, I edited as per.
 

Can you provide me information about this so called 'Hexa NAT' as it would be nice to hear as I have yet to hear that terminology when referring to NAT's between devices.

[LyyK]

9 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

ye, I edited as per.
 

Can you provide me information about this so called 'Hexa NAT' as it would be nice to hear as I have yet to hear that terminology when referring to NAT's between devices.

Hexa is prefix for a number of 6. Not sure if that's what you were asking, but hey.

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

8 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

ye, I edited as per.
 

Can you provide me information about this so called 'Hexa NAT' as it would be nice to hear as I have yet to hear that terminology when referring to NAT's between devices.

you just attach 6 routers to each other each with nat turned on and you set them to different ip ranges

[Falconevo]

Just now, Alaradia said:

you just attach 6 routers to each other each with nat turned on and you set them to different ip ranges

So someone is asking for help and you are just being a chode?

Thought so x

[tronder]

6 minutes ago, Falconevo said:

Grab a laptop if you have one and plug it in to a spare port on the switch, set the interface IP to 192.168.0.50 / 255.255.255.0 manually then access the switch either via SSH or if it has one a web GUI on 192.168.0.236. 

 

Once you make the change and update to the new IP you will immediately lose access to the SSH / WebGUI but now should be able to access on the normal network via 192.168.1.236.

LOL NVM, im just a retard, looks like it finally managed to grab a 192.168.1.--- IP address =D 
but thanks for the help guys. Just with what you mentioned about subnet. just curious as to how i am able to access 192.168.0.1 which is the modem when im on 192.168.1.4

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

Just now, Falconevo said:

So someone is asking for help and you are just being a chode?

Thought so x

nah i'm just making sure that misinformation isn't being spread when people ask for help

 

with love xoxoxoxox

[Falconevo]

Just now, tronder said:

LOL NVM, im just a retard, looks like it finally managed to grab a 192.168.1.--- IP address =D 
but thanks for the help guys. Just with what you mentioned about subnet. just curious as to how i am able to access 192.168.0.1 which is the modem when im on 192.168.1.4

The router will have a route to this IP subnet as you have the router as the default gateway for the machines on 192.168.1.0/24

So anything accessing 192.168.0.0/24 will try via the default gateway (router) and it will have access to 192.168.0.1 but nothing else.

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

1 minute ago, tronder said:

LOL NVM, im just a retard, looks like it finally managed to grab a 192.168.1.--- IP address =D 
but thanks for the help guys. Just with what you mentioned about subnet. just curious as to how i am able to access 192.168.0.1 which is the modem when im on 192.168.1.4

you should be able to just type 192.168.0.1 

[Falconevo]

1 minute ago, Alaradia said:

nah i'm just making sure that misinformation isn't being spread when people ask for help

 

with love xoxoxoxox

It's not misinformation though is it?  Most users have no idea about network address translation and the confusion it can cause.

Fortunately the OP knows he has to forward external requests twice if he wants to port forward to a destination machine inside 192.168.1.0/24.

[brwainer]

2 hours ago, tronder said:

LOL NVM, im just a retard, looks like it finally managed to grab a 192.168.1.--- IP address =D 
but thanks for the help guys. Just with what you mentioned about subnet. just curious as to how i am able to access 192.168.0.1 which is the modem when im on 192.168.1.4

In addition to your IP address, your computer also has a "subnet mask" and "default gateway". I'll give an example with the following assumptions:

Modem:

• Internal IP: 192.168.0.1
• subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
• Default gateway: something from your ISP on the WAN interface

Router:

• External IP: 192.168.0.10
• external subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
• Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
• Internal IP: 192.168.1.1
• Internal subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0

Computer

• IP: 192.168.1.100
• subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
• Default gateway: 192.168.1.1

Switch

• IP: 192.168.0.200
• connected to router, not modem
• other details don't matter

When you ask your computer to reach an IP address, it looks at its IP address and subnet mask to determine if the address you want to reach is on the local subnet. The way this works is that your computer applies the subnet mask to its own IP (in binary with an AND operation), and also to the address you want to reach, and if the results match then the address is on the local subnet.

Examples:

• Computer's IP: 192.168.1.100 x 255.255.255.0 = 192.168.1.0
• Router: 192.168.1.1 x 255.255.255.0 = 192.168.1.0 - matches, local
• Modem: 192.168.0.1 x 255.255.255.0 = 192.168.0.0 - no match, remote
• Switch: 192.168.0.200 x 255.255.255.0 = 192.168.0.0 - no match, remote

For any local IP, your computer will try to reach the other device directly via Layer 2 (Ethernet / Wifi / MAC addresses). For any remote IP, the computer will forward the packet via Layer 3 (IP addresses) to the Default Gateway, which must be a Local address (reachable via Layer 2).

 

Since the switch is a local device, but with an IP your computer thinks is remote, the traffic from the computer to the switch goes to the router. The router does the same subnet calculations and sees that 192.168.0.200 *should* be an IP address that is "local" on the WAN interface, just like the modem is. Therefore it will output the packet on the WAN interface, where the only device is the modem which is not listening for 192.168.0.200.

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, Alaradia said:

double nat is fine i'm currently running a hexa nat stop spreading the nat myth

Its not a myth. Is a known fact that many pieces of software dont like NAT to begin with. While Im sure you can get double NAT to work if you can figure out how to do port forwarding properly, for the general person its not that easy to do. 

[brwainer]

8 hours ago, Alaradia said:

double nat is fine i'm currently running a hexa nat stop spreading the nat myth

 

4 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Its not a myth. Is a known fact that many pieces of software dont like NAT to begin with. While Im sure you can get double NAT to work if you can figure out how to do port forwarding properly, for the general person its not that easy to do. 

Double (or more) NAT particularly messes up UPnP because an application will request its local router for a port to be forwarded to it, but that request won't be extended by the inner router to the outer router. The UPnP process will report a success, but the application still won't have an open port to the internet.

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

 

6 minutes ago, brwainer said:

 

Double (or more) NAT particularly messes up UPnP because an application will request its local router for a port to be forwarded to it, but that request won't be extended by the inner router to the outer router. The UPnP process will report a success, but the application still won't have an open port to the internet.

you set each router as a DMZ upnp works fine 

[Falconevo]

6 minutes ago, Alaradia said:

 

you set each router as a DMZ upnp works fine 

But why would you put a 2nd router in a 'residential router' DMZ instead of using the bridge mode thus avoiding the problem completely?  The OP's configuration wouldn't get any additional benefit by putting a second router in a DMZ of the first router.

 

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

1 minute ago, Falconevo said:

But why would you put a 2nd router in a 'residential router' DMZ instead of using the bridge mode thus avoiding the problem completely?  The OP's configuration wouldn't get any additional benefit by putting a second router in a DMZ of the first router.

 

depending on your isp they don't support it or allow it and force you to use only their modem router wifi combos