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Should I Go No Compromises?

LeonHauptmann

This started out as sort of a budget build (keep in mind office furniture included) but as I got more and more into PC building and gaming I discovered ULMB, which no one seems to be allowed to talk about, for whatever reason.

CAN'T UNSEE GHOSTING on this Acer K242HL (24" FullHD TN). I doubt it will be better on the Asus VN247HA (24" FullHD VA), as well as still running at 60hz (At this point I should mention I mainly play FPS and racing games).

General consensus on 100hz/120hz gaming is no less than a GTX 1070 (right?), which gets bottlenecked by the Pentium G4560 (I don't see a difference between that and an Core i3-6100), so I'd need to step up on that. I'm concerned about if games will strongly prefer hyperthreaded processors, so I might as well move on to i7? Okay, might as well pay a 50€ extra for overclocking (includes mainboard). Oh, and don't forget the monitor, you need that. And I'm at 800€ on top (parts list here). Surely not worth ULMB at 100hz/120hz alone, then again, all the extra goodies, double the cores and threads, higher powered, appropriate GPU, overclockablity.

This is far out of reach for me now as I was recently on vacation and will soon have to pay my driver's license. One and a half years of waiting at very best, as opposed to one year for gaming at 60hz. >inb4volta

Also I'd like to keep Windows 8.1, because I have a few childhood games that do not run on Windows 10 and I have no plans of building a second machine for that. Will Skylake still be around when Coffee Lake/Cannon Lake/Whatever releases?

 

So, what do you think, how would you opt? Thanks for reading.

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13 minutes ago, LeonHauptmann said:

This started out as sort of a budget build (keep in mind office furniture included) but as I got more and more into PC building and gaming I discovered ULMB, which no one seems to be allowed to talk about, for whatever reason.

CAN'T UNSEE GHOSTING on this Acer K242HL (24" FullHD TN). I doubt it will be better on the Asus VN247HA (24" FullHD VA), as well as still running at 60hz (At this point I should mention I mainly play FPS and racing games).

General consensus on 100hz/120hz gaming is no less than a GTX 1070 (right?), which gets bottlenecked by the Pentium G4560 (I don't see a difference between that and an Core i3-6100), so I'd need to step up on that. I'm concerned about if games will strongly prefer hyperthreaded processors, so I might as well move on to i7? Okay, might as well pay a 50€ extra for overclocking (includes mainboard). Oh, and don't forget the monitor, you need that. And I'm at 800€ on top (parts list here). Surely not worth ULMB at 100hz/120hz alone, then again, all the extra goodies, double the cores and threads, higher powered, appropriate GPU, overclockablity.

This is far out of reach for me now as I was recently on vacation and will soon have to pay my driver's license. One and a half years of waiting at very best, as opposed to one year for gaming at 60hz. >inb4volta

Also I'd like to keep Windows 8.1, because I have a few childhood games that do not run on Windows 10 and I have no plans of building a second machine for that. Will Skylake still be around when Coffee Lake/Cannon Lake/Whatever releases?

 

So, what do you think, how would you opt? Thanks for reading.

You can always virtualize 8.1. just a thought.

 

You can exceed 100 FPS on 1060 and 480/580. So not limited to only 1070. Yes 1070 would be awesome, but I know about budgets as well.

 

Acer has a couple better oanela. Check out Amazon. Their consumer choice monitors are very well priced (here in USA.).

 

Upgrading to higher refresh will change the way games play. I have 1700x and RX 480, and my ACER 144HZ monitor. Very happy. I play FPS and race as well (Dirt Rally). The higher refresh definitely stops ghosting and tearing.

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26 minutes ago, LeonHauptmann said:

Also I'd like to keep Windows 8.1, because I have a few childhood games that do not run on Windows 10 and I have no plans of building a second machine for that.

Just out of curiosity, is that the only thing keeping you from 10?

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High refresh rate display with good GPU is totally worth it.  RX 580 or 1060 is OK for 1080p 120hz+, but you might need to turn settings down a bit on some games, if you want to stay over 100 fps.  i5 or Ryzen 5 are still a really good way to go.  i7 is not necessary for a great experience.

i7 4790k @4.7 | GTX 1070 Strix | Z97 Sabertooth | 32GB  DDR3 2400 mhz | Intel 750 SSD | Define R5 | Corsair K70 | Steel Series Rival | XB271, 1440p, IPS, 165hz | 5.1 Surround
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51 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

You can always virtualize 8.1. just a thought.

 

You can exceed 100 FPS on 1060 and 480/580. So not limited to only 1070. Yes 1070 would be awesome, but I know about budgets as well.

 

Acer has a couple better oanela. Check out Amazon. Their consumer choice monitors are very well priced (here in USA.).

 

Upgrading to higher refresh will change the way games play. I have 1700x and RX 480, and my ACER 144HZ monitor. Very happy. I play FPS and race as well (Dirt Rally). The higher refresh definitely stops ghosting and tearing.

I will run it through VMLite XP Mode using XP Mode for Windows 7.

 

You're right, 144hz actually seems to do the trick. Will look into cheaper 100hz-144hz monitors.

42 minutes ago, Stylized_Violence said:

Just out of curiosity, is that the only thing keeping you from 10?

I have some experience with 8.1 and absolutely hate 10's UI. Also reading about a lot of compability issues with older games, but who knows if it's actually 10's fault.

 

29 minutes ago, CostcoSamples said:

High refresh rate display with good GPU is totally worth it.  RX 580 or 1060 is OK for 1080p 120hz+, but you might need to turn settings down a bit on some games, if you want to stay over 100 fps.  i5 or Ryzen 5 are still a really good way to go.  i7 is not necessary for a great experience.

Hard to guess how a 1060 performs at medium-high settings, at least to me. Maybe framerate will double when turning off HBAO and chromatic abberation and disputbly unimportant stuff like that. Could you elaborate on getting i5? I honestly don't see a point of that as I do not do any video editing or play CPU-intensive games and as previously mentioned I'm sceptical about non-hyperthreaded CPUs in the future.

 

 

Thanks for responding everyone!

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17 minutes ago, LeonHauptmann said:

I will run it through VMLite XP Mode using XP Mode for Windows 7.

 

You're right, 144hz actually seems to do the trick. Will look into cheaper 100hz-144hz monitors.

I have some experience with 8.1 and absolutely hate 10's UI. Also reading about a lot of compability issues with older games, but who knows if it's actually 10's fault.

 

Hard to guess how a 1060 performs at medium-high settings, at least to me. Maybe framerate will double when turning off HBAO and chromatic abberation and disputbly unimportant stuff like that. Could you elaborate on getting i5? I honestly don't see a point of that as I do not do any video editing or play CPU-intensive games and as previously mentioned I'm sceptical about non-hyperthreaded CPUs in the future.

 

 

Thanks for responding everyone!

You can easily double frame rates if you turn off AA and reduce texture detail to medium, and turn off a few other "nice to have" settings.  You have to decide if the trade-off is worth it.  The 1070 will obviously handle 1080p 144hz a lot easier.

 

Quad core CPU is the bare minimum now days.  The industry is rapidly moving toward more multi-threading.  You are right to question the future of the i5, but as of today, it's still a great CPU.  I would personally favor the Ryzen 1600x over any i5 because of the extra cores/threads.

i7 4790k @4.7 | GTX 1070 Strix | Z97 Sabertooth | 32GB  DDR3 2400 mhz | Intel 750 SSD | Define R5 | Corsair K70 | Steel Series Rival | XB271, 1440p, IPS, 165hz | 5.1 Surround
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Hyperthreading doesn't really help with games, making the i7 poor value for gaming. It makes sense if you want to do other stuff with your PC, but then Ryzen makes more sense for that now, or if your worried about getting really poor overclocker of an i5. 

 

MS don't like you running older OS on new hardware and disable updates. So on a new build you're stuck with W10. What games do you want to run? There may well be workarounds for most of them.

 

If you want to stick vaguely to a budget build I'd go Ryzen 5 1600X with a B350 board, RX 580 and a freesync monitor. The 1600X has 6 cores, plus 6 hyperthreads (or whatever AMD call them), vs the i7 7770K's 4 of each. The B350 gives you everything you'll likely need except SLI support, and for similar features cheaper than the Intel boards. The RX 580 will be enough for 100-120 hz at 1080p in most games, and freesync will help keep things smooth. You could step up to the 1070 if you want to game at 1440p, but if you want adaptive sync you'll have to pay extra for G-Sync.

 

That said in 1.5 years your options will look very different. Virtually none of the currently available CPUs, motherboards or graphics cards will still be available in 1.5 years. And you'll probably be looking at a 4K setup rather than a 1080p or 1440p one.

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40 minutes ago, CostcoSamples said:

You can easily double frame rates if you turn off AA and reduce texture detail to medium, and turn off a few other "nice to have" settings.  You have to decide if the trade-off is worth it.  The 1070 will obviously handle 1080p 144hz a lot easier.

 

Quad core CPU is the bare minimum now days.  The industry is rapidly moving toward more multi-threading.  You are right to question the future of the i5, but as of today, it's still a great CPU.  I would personally favor the Ryzen 1600x over any i5 because of the extra cores/threads.

I will see a how a Ryzen build would turn out, although I favor Intel and Nvidia.

 

39 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

Hyperthreading doesn't really help with games, making the i7 poor value for gaming. It makes sense if you want to do other stuff with your PC, but then Ryzen makes more sense for that now, or if your worried about getting really poor overclocker of an i5. 

 

MS don't like you running older OS on new hardware and disable updates. So on a new build you're stuck with W10. What games do you want to run? There may well be workarounds for most of them.

 

If you want to stick vaguely to a budget build I'd go Ryzen 5 1600X with a B350 board, RX 580 and a freesync monitor. The 1600X has 6 cores, plus 6 hyperthreads (or whatever AMD call them), vs the i7 7770K's 4 of each. The B350 gives you everything you'll likely need except SLI support, and for similar features cheaper than the Intel boards. The RX 580 will be enough for 100-120 hz at 1080p in most games, and freesync will help keep things smooth. You could step up to the 1070 if you want to game at 1440p, but if you want adaptive sync you'll have to pay extra for G-Sync.

 

That said in 1.5 years your options will look very different. Virtually none of the currently available CPUs, motherboards or graphics cards will still be available in 1.5 years. And you'll probably be looking at a 4K setup rather than a 1080p or 1440p one.

1. Agreed

 

2. 

Spoiler

-Heavily modded Need For Speed Most Wanted 2005

-DTM Race Driver 2 (using vmlite xp mode, xp mode for win7)

-MotoGP 2

-GRID 2 (Known issues and unsupported on 10)

-Metro 2033 Redux (Known issues)

-Battlefield Bad Company 2

-Stalker Call Of Pripyat

 

3. As above

 

4. I don't think so, just as 144hz will not become standard in the next years because there's only a small market for that. While I'm at it, should I pay 50€ for a 450 Watt EVGA B3 or 100€ for a 550 Watt G3? I'm not about the extra power or efficiency but I've read ball bearings last 3-4 times longer than sleeve bearings.

 

 

Found the Asus VG248QE for 269€. With a 1060, therefore no i7, Z270 board, and, obviously, 1070, I'm at 2080€, which is sort of in reach of the next year.

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I no nothing about AMD stuff, so can't help there.

 

But if budget is a consideration and your main focus is gaming I would aim for something like this:

 

i5k version and overclock it with a 120mm AIO CPU cooler

16GB fast RAM

SSD

1060 6GB GPU

 

That will deliver great FPS in 1080p gaming, and reasonable FPS in 1440p gaming across most titles now and for the next couple of years IMO.

CPU Intel i7 8700K @5Ghz Motherboard ROG Maximus Hero 10 RAM Corsair Vengeance 32GB 3600MHz 

GPU MSI Gaming X 1080ti Case Thermaltake Core P3  Storage SSD Boot plus Samsung 960 Evo M.2 nvme storage 

PSU Corsair RM750W Gold Display Asus ROG Strix XG32VQ 144Hz 1440p Cooling Corsair H100i V2 

Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK FX Mouse Roccat Kone Aimo Audio MK3 Fostex T50RP + Schiit Magni 3 AMP and Modi 2 DAC 
Operating System Win 10

VR HTC Vive, Audio Strap Motion Platform DOF Reality 2 DOF

 

 

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19 hours ago, ShoshinUK said:

I no nothing about AMD stuff, so can't help there.

 

But if budget is a consideration and your main focus is gaming I would aim for something like this:

 

i5k version and overclock it with a 120mm AIO CPU cooler

16GB fast RAM

SSD

1060 6GB GPU

 

That will deliver great FPS in 1080p gaming, and reasonable FPS in 1440p gaming across most titles now and for the next couple of years IMO.

 

No watercooling for me, why 16GBs of RAM though? I'm also pretty happy with 1080p, you get diminishing returns except for requiring more compute power. Also limits my monitor selection.

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40 minutes ago, LeonHauptmann said:

No watercooling for me, why 16GBs of RAM though? I'm also pretty happy with 1080p, you get diminishing returns except for requiring more compute power. Also limits my monitor selection.

If your sticking with 1080p then 8GB RAM should be fine for nearly everything, I think. I do use above 8GB RAM in Squad but i am really pushing it.

 

Re water cooling, I only suggested as I prefer to air coolers. You will only need an aftermarket CPU cooler if you are going to over clock the CPU.

CPU Intel i7 8700K @5Ghz Motherboard ROG Maximus Hero 10 RAM Corsair Vengeance 32GB 3600MHz 

GPU MSI Gaming X 1080ti Case Thermaltake Core P3  Storage SSD Boot plus Samsung 960 Evo M.2 nvme storage 

PSU Corsair RM750W Gold Display Asus ROG Strix XG32VQ 144Hz 1440p Cooling Corsair H100i V2 

Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK FX Mouse Roccat Kone Aimo Audio MK3 Fostex T50RP + Schiit Magni 3 AMP and Modi 2 DAC 
Operating System Win 10

VR HTC Vive, Audio Strap Motion Platform DOF Reality 2 DOF

 

 

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