Overclocking non-K cpu.

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

So i recently bought a prebuilt PC https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC-Xtreme-GXiVR8020A-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B01HNBLHAA/ref=pd_sbs_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=W6ZBGVGEV3727F6MA3SP and i want to overclock it. The thing is its not a K cpu, but Ive heard that the old skylake BIOSes allowed for overclocking. This is my motherboard's page https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B150M-BAZOOKA.html#down-bios. See how the 2nd bios says "Modifies OC settings" I believe that this had the multipliers unlocked originally. Ill be installing the first bios on that page. I just wanna know if it safe or not to install a new bios, espetially one this old. 

[yathis]

need old BIOS'

[crzyces]

Yes and yes.

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

1 hour ago, crzyces said:

Yes and yes.

Ok thank you. Is there anything I should be aware of when i update it?

 

[crzyces]

First, try not rolling back the bios and see if you can get to the base clock. If you can, skip the next sentence. Roll back the Bios. You won't be using multipliers to OC, you'll be using an old school BCLK overclock. You'll also probably want to reduce voltage, as the lower you can get it at the clock you want, the lower the temps will be. Now you may need to up it, and with good airflow along with a good cpu heatsink and fan, you can push it a little, further. I try to keep it around 1.35 or lower, but you can up it to 1.6, after that you get into the danger zone. Always monitor your temps. I like to use CPUID, Coretemp, and Prime 95 for the stress test. Prime 95 will show you very quickly the speed of the cores, the draw per core, the temps, the max temp for the chip (in my case 105 Celsius, which I do not want to be close to), fan speed etc. I'll keep them all open at once.

 

Tech city has great oc'ing guides for non k cpu's on non multiplier boards. I seriously recommend checking out his vids on it. rs2007god has a pretty good vid on oc'ing b150 boards with non k chips. Hope these get you headed in the right direction.

 

[airdeano]

rolling back the BIOS from a latter to an earlier will not undo any microcode update done to the CPU. once 'burned-in' it is there for life or until another microcode update is processed. the 1.6v had the overclock removal code installed. so any update before 1.5v is fine, the 1.6v removed the overclocking ability.

[Princess Luna]

2 minutes ago, airdeano said:

rolling back the BIOS from a latter to an earlier will not undo any microcode update done to the CPU. once 'burned-in' it is there for life or until another microcode update is processed.

Not to mention BCLK is hard to stabilize and 90% of the time completely pointless being realistic... If OP really feels he is being limited by the CPU, update its BIOS so it can accept Kaby Lake and put an i7 7700 on it when budget allows... from the pictures this prebuild seems to accept upgrades without any issue.

[airdeano]

personally, i wouldn't overclock on that B150 board. the lack of VRM cooling, 4+2 phasing and lack of UEFI support says, no, uh huh..

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

Not to mention BCLK is hard to stabilize and 90% of the time completely pointless being realistic... If OP really feels he is being limited by the CPU, update its BIOS so it can accept Kaby Lake and put an i7 7700 on it when budget allows... from the pictures this prebuild seems to accept upgrades without any issue.

 

It does, but what do you mean bclk is unstable and pointless? Im very new to this and all help is appreciated. 

[Princess Luna]

Just now, Nickathom said:

It does, but what do you mean bclk is unstable and pointless? Im very new to this and all help is appreciated. 

Basically that if you want to overclock, you get an unlocked CPU and a X/Z motherboard nowadays, the old days where anything could overclock for free gains are long dead.

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

1 minute ago, airdeano said:

personally, i wouldn't overclock on that B150 board. the lack of VRM cooling, 4+2 phasing and lack of UEFI support says, no, uh huh..

 

Im sorry but I dont know what most of that means. Would a small overclock be ok? Like 105 or 110 or the bclk?

[crzyces]

Just now, Nickathom said:

It does, but what do you mean bclk is unstable and pointless? Im very new to this and all help is appreciated. 

She means it takes a lot more precision with less mobo tools to do it. By pointless, you are not going to get a 1ghz boost. You'd be lucky to get a .5GHz, at least that is what I think she means.

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

Basically that if you want to overclock, you get an unlocked CPU and a X/Z motherboard nowadays, the old days where anything could overclock for free gains are long dead.

 

Would a 105 on the bclk work? It seems kinda low. Or are K cpus picked because they won the sillicon lottery? Or is it something else?

[crzyces]

Just now, Nickathom said:

Would a 105 on the bclk work? It seems kinda low. Or are K cpus picked because they won the sillicon lottery? Or is it something else?

It is normally better silicon, but it's not just that. It is money. If you could oc a standard non k chip from 3.2 too 4.5 easily, who is going to pay the extra $100 for the k chip to get to 4.7?

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

2 minutes ago, crzyces said:

She means it takes a lot more precision with less mobo tools to do it. By pointless, you are not going to get a 1ghz boost. You'd be lucky to get a .5GHz, at least that is what I think she means.

 

oh ok. I dont have a good cooler so i dont intend to overclock that much. also if it gets hot itll thermal throttle right?

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, Nickathom said:

Would a 105 on the bclk work? It seems kinda low. Or are K cpus picked because they won the sillicon lottery? Or is it something else?

I'm really sorry but you should drop the idea of overclocking, it is not going to happen, the only way you can improve your CPU performance with  this prebuild is by either buying the i7 6700 or go through the bother of BIOS updating and get an i7 7700.... which you'll still not overclock because this motherboard isn't meant to overclock processors, even if they are unlocked (k)

 

I know it is pointless to say this right now but... never buy a prebuild ;x

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

Just now, Princess Cadence said:

I'm really sorry but you should drop the idea of overclocking, it is not going to happen, the only way you can improve your CPU performance with  this prebuild is by either buying the i7 6700 or go through the bother of BIOS updating and get an i7 7700.... which you'll still not overclock because this motherboard isn't meant to overclock processors, even if they are unlocked (k)

 

I know it is pointless to say this right now but... never buy a prebuild ;x

 

yeah i guess. it was on sale for 650 at the time though, which, for its hardware at the time, was really good. also im kinda persistent so is there anything i could break by going up in small overclocks?

[crzyces]

Just now, Nickathom said:

oh ok. I don't have a good cooler so i don't intend to overclock that much. also if it gets hot itll thermal throttle right?

You would have core temp 1.7 running (you should download and install it before you attempt the oc should you choose that route knowing the risk). That will show you the real time temps.

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

1 minute ago, crzyces said:

You would have core temp 1.7 running (you should download and install it before you attempt the oc should you choose that route knowing the risk). That will show you the real time temps.

 

I have HWMonitor, will that do? Also what would happen if it gets too hot? would it throttle or shut off?

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

52 minutes ago, crzyces said:

First, try not rolling back the bios and see if you can get to the base clock. If you can, skip the next sentence. Roll back the Bios. You won't be using multipliers to OC, you'll be using an old school BCLK overclock. You'll also probably want to reduce voltage, as the lower you can get it at the clock you want, the lower the temps will be. Now you may need to up it, and with good airflow along with a good cpu heatsink and fan, you can push it a little, further. I try to keep it around 1.35 or lower, but you can up it to 1.6, after that you get into the danger zone. Always monitor your temps. I like to use CPUID, Coretemp, and Prime 95 for the stress test. Prime 95 will show you very quickly the speed of the cores, the draw per core, the temps, the max temp for the chip (in my case 105 Celsius, which I do not want to be close to), fan speed etc. I'll keep them all open at once.

 

Tech city has great oc'ing guides for non k cpu's on non multiplier boards. I seriously recommend checking out his vids on it. rs2007god has a pretty good vid on oc'ing b150 boards with non k chips. Hope these get you headed in the right direction.

 

 

I couldnt find the Bclk. I found something called the fclk and another thing called the ratio that was above the clock speeds. I think the ratio is what is meant in this video, but whenever i try to change it from auto it ignores my request. any help?

[crzyces]

1 minute ago, Nickathom said:

I have HWMonitor, will that do? Also what would happen if it gets too hot? would it throttle or shut off?

It will throttle when stress testing anyway. I'd manually shut it down because I'd be watching the temps and speed in cpuid (cpu-z), core temp 1.7, and Prime 95 all at once. Once I was at max temp I'd flick the psu switch.

 

I don't know why I did not think of this before, but I think Princess and Nick are right. This isn't the way to get started with overclocking. Modding the board, switching processors, or not modding the board to go from 2.8 to 3.0/3.1 with possible bios changes...

 

If you had something like a Gigabyte G1 Sniper Z170 with a built in pseudo unlock on the board and an easy to work with bios, maybe, but this is really jumping in the deep end here. for minimal gain. The best thing you could do is save for a new board and cpu. Buy used if need be. Get things you know have an easier route to oc'ing and build from there.

 

I want to OC everything I touch, so I feel ya, but I've burned many a chip and board along the way.

 

If you do decide to go through with it, watch and read as many tutorials as you can first, and be very cautious. I'm not kidding when I say that you won't notice much of a difference in 2.8-3.0/3.1.

[crzyces]

6 minutes ago, Nickathom said:

I couldnt find the Bclk. I found something called the fclk and another thing called the ratio that was above the clock speeds. I think the ratio is what is meant in this video, but whenever i try to change it from auto it ignores my request. any help?

bclk is the base clock speed which is what you would be changing. so if it said 28 you would highlight it and type 30 then arrow out of it. Like I said, the work to get the micro boost here is a risk that isn't worth the reward imo, not on your first go at it. You are right though, you are stubborn.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

44 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

the old days where anything could overclock for free gains are long dead.

Or so Intel wants you to believe...

38 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

I'm really sorry but you should drop the idea of overclocking, it is not going to happen, the only way you can improve your CPU performance with  this prebuild is by either buying the i7 6700 or go through the bother of BIOS updating and get an i7 7700.... which you'll still not overclock because this motherboard isn't meant to overclock processors, even if they are unlocked (k)

Nah, I disagree. Never give up. Subvert what's established! Take ownership of your devices! Hacker spirit for the win!  

It's all a matter of understanding the risks, if present, and then preparing to tolerate frustration when taking the hard road.

5 minutes ago, Nickathom said:

I couldnt find the Bclk. I found something called the fclk and another thing called the ratio that was above the clock speeds. I think the ratio is what is meant in this video, but whenever i try to change it from auto it ignores my request. any help?

In the video there are both BCLK and FCLK. Did you manage to flash the right BIOS? If so, there is still the possibility that, as @airdeano said, the BLK overclocking can't be re-enabled.

Ideally, take a screenshot of the relevant BIOS page for easier collective-mind processing  

[NicholasNicholasNicholas]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Or so Intel wants you to believe...

Nah, I disagree. Never give up. Subvert what's established! Take ownership of your devices! Hacker spirit for the win!  

It's all a matter of understanding the risks, if present, and then preparing to tolerate frustration when taking the hard road.

In the video there are both BCLK and FCLK. Did you manage to flash the right BIOS? If so, there is still the possibility that, as @airdeano said, the BLK overclocking can't be re-enabled.

Ideally, take a screenshot of the relevant BIOS page for easier collective-mind processing  

 

I did flash the bios earlier with my portable harddrive and theres still no blck. but i did up the monimum clock up from 28, so its now 30-34. should i increase this more or leave it the same?

[crzyces]

Does it show that it's running at over 28?