Partlist for VM host NAS

[ChalkChalkson]

Hey there,

I am planning on getting a new PC that will stay in my flat and function as my gaming PC (I mostly play EU4 and occasionally BO2 Zombies, MC or LoL, so an rx 480 / 1060 will be plenty). I also want to run unraid and to make the machine a NAS, I have some random 500GB drives laying around which I will be using for the array, though I would like to have a propper 2TB + drive for the parity so that I can add bigger drives without having to rebuild the array. 

I would prefer to have at least 2 preferably 4 threads assigned to the NAS, while CPU performance is pretty important in my beloved EU4. Thus I thought about going red this time around. I would probably also prefer to go red with the card since FreeSync panels are way easier to come by than GSync ones. I will also need a monitor, a keyboard and a mouse, but I pretty much decided on the letter ones.

My budged is about 1250€, the smaller and quieter the PC can be the better, and if I have to go with a midtower I'd probably spend the extra few buck to upgrade to an S340 Elite or the equivalent 70€ phenteks case. For mouse and keyboard I will most likely go with the G403 and the G610 with brown flavour, unless someone knows another 10keyless brown keyboard with similar features around that pricepoint. I am located in GER and would prefer buying from mindfactory (this purchase will put me above 10K total  ). Also: when I have a window I really like backplates and I hate the saphire one since it is messy AF.

 

My first idea was this (I am very sorry, but I had it in there already and searching it all on PC partpicker is a pain in the butt since the MoBo wasn't even listed the last time I looked)

 

Any suggestions? 

[Electronics Wizardy]

Don't use unraid, just use file sharing in windows. You can then use storage spaces to make a array.

 

 

[ChalkChalkson]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Don't use unraid, just use file sharing in windows. You can then use storage spaces to make a array.

 

 

I will use more than just this unraid feature. I will use docker and sync it with another unraid server that sits at my parents house

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, ChalkChalkson said:

I will use more than just this unraid feature. I will use docker and sync it with another unraid server that sits at my parents house

you can do both of those things on windows.

 

Docker can be installed on windows.

You can easily use ftp to sync files. 

[ChalkChalkson]

3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

you can do both of those things on windows.

 

Docker can be installed on windows.

You can easily use ftp to sync files. 

But I love my linux dude... Rather than running just windows I'd run Mint Fedora or Ubuntu. And I purposely did not include these 50€ into the budged

Also: the VM hosting is pretty important for other things I plan in the future and Windows VM software solutions are performing terrible 

[fjdhdhcyfhf]

7 minutes ago, ChalkChalkson said:

But I love my linux dude... Rather than running just windows I'd run Mint Fedora or Ubuntu. And I purposely did not include these 50€ into the budged

Also: the VM hosting is pretty important for other things I plan in the future and Windows VM software solutions are performing terrible 

Motherboard and GPU selection needs to be carefully done to check if you can do VGA or PCI passthrough. I see you picked a Ryzen CPU; last I heard there were issues with IOMMU.

[ChalkChalkson]

2 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

Motherboard and GPU selection needs to be carefully done to check if you can do VGA or PCI passthrough. I see you picked a Ryzen CPU; last I heard there were issues with IOMMU.

do you know of a validated combination? Intel chips are kinda out of the price range. 

BTW I forgot to mention if at all possible I want my Windows VM to be able to drive VR though this is very optional

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, ChalkChalkson said:

do you know of a validated combination? Intel chips are kinda out of the price range. 

BTW I forgot to mention if at all possible I want my Windows VM to be able to drive VR

Rzyen passthrough doesn't work now, i wouldn't do it. Id probably just get a 7700k or 7600k instead.

[ChalkChalkson]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

Rzyen passthrough is really good now, i wouldn't do it. Id probably just get a 7700k or 7600k instead.

threadcount is a pretty big issue though

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, ChalkChalkson said:

threadcount is a pretty big issue though

what are you doing on it. 

 

The actual thread count doesn't matter, its what you can do with them.

[ChalkChalkson]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

what are you doing on it. 

 

The actual thread count doesn't matter, its what you can do with them.

Ok, so I need at least 2 threads (preferably 4) for the actual NAS, since I am planning to syncing with the server at my parents place nightly. I need at least 4 for Windows to run the way it should and ideally 1 or 2 for another VM to run servers (probably Linux, maybe Windows). Unfortunately EU4 doesn't have a server docker, so I will need a VM that runs Steam for that. I could ditch unraid and run straight Mint but boy I don't want to do that setup

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, ChalkChalkson said:

Ok, so I need at least 2 threads (preferably 4) for the actual NAS, since I am planning to syncing with the server at my parents place nightly. I need at least 4 for Windows to run the way it should and ideally 1 or 2 for another VM to run servers (probably Linux, maybe Windows). Unfortunately EU4 doesn't have a server docker, so I will need a VM that runs Steam for that. I could ditch unraid and run straight Mint but boy I don't want to do that setup

thats not how threads work, vm's can share them are your nas isn't going to be maxing the cpu all the time. 

 

Id give windows all the cores that you can, then give them vm's like 4 or 8 each.

[ChalkChalkson]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

thats not how threads work, vm's can share them are your nas isn't going to be maxing the cpu all the time. 

 

Id give windows all the cores that you can, then give them vm's like 4 or 8 each.

The last time I checked I had to assign threads to VMs, yes when the VM doesn't run the cores are free, but I don't want to run the VM for the EU4 server at the same time as the Windows VM. Though (as I said) I am willing to ditch that capability. 

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, ChalkChalkson said:

The last time I checked I had to assign threads to VMs, yes when the VM doesn't run the cores are free, but I don't want to run the VM for the EU4 server at the same time as the Windows VM. Though (as I said) I am willing to ditch that capability. 

vm vcpu's run just like any other process, there not pinned to a cpu thread. 

 

Sharing cores is normal and wornt hurt performance normally

[ChalkChalkson]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

vm vcpu's run just like any other process, there not pinned to a cpu thread. 

 

Sharing cores is normal and wornt hurt performance normally

yeah it is, normally.

But unraid handles VMs at a level that is very close to the hardware and the cores are actually pinned. At least it is displayed this way

[ChalkChalkson]

 

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, ChalkChalkson said:

But unraid handles VMs at a level that is very close to the hardware and the cores are actually pinned. At least it is displayed this way

unraid is just using kvm, and they have a bad interface for doing it, and they way they do cores is wrong. 

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 minutes ago, ChalkChalkson said:

yeah it is, normally.

But unraid handles VMs at a level that is very close to the hardware and the cores are actually pinned. At least it is displayed this way

if you want to run vms, id suggest proxmox, esxi, ovirt, or xenserver. Free and much better vm features. 

[ChalkChalkson]

I'll sure check these out, but playing with software can only happen once I have the hardware, so could we focus on the parts for a moment?

So: is there a Mobo-GPU combo that is validated to get IOMMU to run with Ryzen?

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

Also: the VM hosting is pretty important for other things I plan in the future and Windows VM software solutions are performing terrible 

Hyper-V is a fantastic VM hosting solution, not exactly sure where you got that impression from. I'm a big ESXi user not Hyper-V but performance wise all the big name hypervisors perform very similarly.

 

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

BTW I forgot to mention if at all possible I want my Windows VM to be able to drive VR though this is very optional

Virtualizing a gaming OS is generally a bad idea, if you want to use VR this becomes even worse. VR is very sensitive to latency and performance consistency which is very counter to virtualization.

 

Right now virtualization of CPU workload works very well across the board, you still need to be careful about how you provision your cores and share them between VMs if minimum performance is of concern (yes for gaming and VR) but on the GPU side this is very much not up to scratch. Even full GPU passthrough is not perfect and is geared towards using the GPU as a compute accelerator and not for actual graphics display output.

 

It does work yes but doesn't make it a good idea.

 

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

The last time I checked I had to assign threads to VMs, yes when the VM doesn't run the cores are free, but I don't want to run the VM for the EU4 server at the same time as the Windows VM. Though (as I said) I am willing to ditch that capability. 

Sharing threads between VMs is a fundamental feature of virtualization, this is how you save in hardware costs as very few servers much full use of the hardware. Typical physical to virtual CPU ratios are around 2:1 to 8:1 for server workloads, virtualized desktops can go higher.

 

What this means is the same thread is being used by between 2 to 8 VMs.

 

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

yeah it is, normally.

But unraid handles VMs at a level that is very close to the hardware and the cores are actually pinned. At least it is displayed this way

Even unRAID can do this, select the same threads when creating a VM as another VM is using.

 

@ChalkChalkson

Also just so you are aware unRAID is KVM which any Linux distro can and does use. What Limetech has done is give it us a webUI, storage pooling and some under the hood tweaks to KVM.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, ChalkChalkson said:

I'll sure check these out, but playing with software can only happen once I have the hardware, so could we focus on the parts for a moment?

So: is there a Mobo-GPU combo that is validated to get IOMMU to run with Ryzen?

Just be careful around the hardware costs, sometimes it does actually come out cheaper to have a gaming desktop and a lower power server for the actual server stuff. Also from a performance standpoint is a better option.

 

Far as Ryzen goes, no too soon.

 

Your actually better off going on ebay and getting a used Xeon CPU, they go for cheap prices compared to new and you can use them in a desktop motherboard of the correct socket and with non ECC RAM.

 

Basically find a cheap X99 motherboard, or X79, and find a Xeon on ebay at a price your willing to pay. You'll get much better results and stability than trying to do this with a Ryzen CPU.

[ChalkChalkson]

12 hours ago, leadeater said:

Just be careful around the hardware costs, sometimes it does actually come out cheaper to have a gaming desktop and a lower power server for the actual server stuff. Also from a performance standpoint is a better option.

 

Far as Ryzen goes, no too soon.

 

Your actually better off going on ebay and getting a used Xeon CPU, they go for cheap prices compared to new and you can use them in a desktop motherboard of the correct socket and with non ECC RAM.

 

Basically find a cheap X99 motherboard, or X79, and find a Xeon on ebay at a price your willing to pay. You'll get much better results and stability than trying to do this with a Ryzen CPU.

First off: You are awesome man! You actually explained which of my assumptions are wrong, thanks!

Ill be looking into the X99 and/or X79 mobo, but when filtering for 2011-3 without any other filters the cheapest MoBo is €180, the Xeons are pretty much free compared to that. With Sandybridge stuff it is just hard to find mobos

As with balancing the server and gaming PCs, when building two, could you maybe give me a PC Partpicker list (there is a "Germany" button)? Please, by no means feel obligated, it would help me a lot, but I do not expect anyone to put that much work into helping a nooby  

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, ChalkChalkson said:

First off: You are awesome man! You actually explained which of my assumptions are wrong, thanks!

Ill be looking into the X99 and/or X79 mobo, but when filtering for 2011-3 without any other filters the cheapest MoBo is €180, the Xeons are pretty much free compared to that. With Sandybridge stuff it is just hard to find mobos

As with balancing the server and gaming PCs, when building two, could you maybe give me a PC Partpicker list (there is a "Germany" button)? Please, by no means feel obligated, it would help me a lot, but I do not expect anyone to put that much work into helping a nooby  

 

Expensive Server:

• Motherboard + CPU $260 USD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-X9SRL-FServer-Motherboard-LGA-2011-DDR3-1600-XEON-E5-2640-6-CORE-/272615510370?hash=item3f79269162:g:zIEAAOSwDmBY4S5J
• RAM $20 USD (4x 4GB): http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-M393B5170EH1-CF8-4GB-2Rx4-PC3-8500R-DDR3-ECC-FOR-SERVER-NO-PC-/222117216181?hash=item33b737bfb5:g:~0oAAOSw3utY4gAa

Total: $280 USD

 

Case and power supply extra but I'm sure you can handle that, make sure the case can take SSI EEB/E-ATX

 

Cheaper Server:

• Motherboard + 2x CPU + 12GB RAM $135 USD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-X8DLT-IF-Intel-Xeon-2x-E5620-2-40GHz-12GB-DDR3-Motherboard-CPU-Combo-/311840861248?hash=item489b29ec40:g:pqEAAOSwTM5Y5V5F

Total: $135 USD

 

Case and power supply extra but I'm sure you can handle that, make sure the case can take SSI EEB/E-ATX

 

 

The cheaper server is still very good, I run quite a few LGA 1366 servers myself and they support all the virtualization features necessary. Also the cheaper server is actually more powerful as it has 2 more cores total but will use more electricity and the number of PCIe slots isn't as good as the more modern one I've listed.

[ChalkChalkson]

On 4/9/2017 at 6:25 AM, leadeater said:

 

Expensive Server:

• Motherboard + CPU $260 USD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-X9SRL-FServer-Motherboard-LGA-2011-DDR3-1600-XEON-E5-2640-6-CORE-/272615510370?hash=item3f79269162:g:zIEAAOSwDmBY4S5J
• RAM $20 USD (4x 4GB): http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAMSUNG-M393B5170EH1-CF8-4GB-2Rx4-PC3-8500R-DDR3-ECC-FOR-SERVER-NO-PC-/222117216181?hash=item33b737bfb5:g:~0oAAOSw3utY4gAa

Total: $280 USD

 

Case and power supply extra but I'm sure you can handle that, make sure the case can take SSI EEB/E-ATX

 

Cheaper Server:

• Motherboard + 2x CPU + 12GB RAM $135 USD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-X8DLT-IF-Intel-Xeon-2x-E5620-2-40GHz-12GB-DDR3-Motherboard-CPU-Combo-/311840861248?hash=item489b29ec40:g:pqEAAOSwTM5Y5V5F

Total: $135 USD

 

Case and power supply extra but I'm sure you can handle that, make sure the case can take SSI EEB/E-ATX

 

 

The cheaper server is still very good, I run quite a few LGA 1366 servers myself and they support all the virtualization features necessary. Also the cheaper server is actually more powerful as it has 2 more cores total but will use more electricity and the number of PCIe slots isn't as good as the more modern one I've listed.

Thank you very much I will sure search for similar offers in my region!

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, ChalkChalkson said:

Thank you very much I will sure search for similar offers in my region!

Don't be too afraid to just buy something from ebay if you have to, the shipping isn't too bad the only thing you'll actually have to worry about is paying tax but the shipping company handles that and charges it on to you. Typically it gets held and they contact you for payment after it lands in your country.