Planning builds

[Sheldon_King]

Okay, this is my very first post, so forgive my barren idocy towards this particular forum.

 

What I am planning: Upgrade my rigs.

 

Why  I am planning it:

Desktop: It is getting a touch slow, and I want to make sure that it will handle anything I can throw at it in the near future more so than the current system can.

 

Laptop: Anewer laptop woild be nice, but I have some needs, so bear with me please.

 

 

What I Have:

Desktop:

ASrock Z77 Extreme 4 (ATX) and P8P67 WS Rev

2600k @ 4.6GHz daily (can hit 5GHz, but not at an acceptable temp in my opinion).

16GB of Samsung RAM running at 2133MHz

1.5TB of HDD (Guessing. I have a 1TB HDD for sure, and I think 2 250GB drives, but I am not at home to check that for sure)

128GB of SSD (Samsung 830) 

PH-TC14PE_BK cooler

NO case (It is kind of just assembled on my desk case who needs a case)

Acer 1080p screen with a dell 768p screen riding backup.

OCZ ZT750 watt

Reference GTX 480

No optical drive

 

Laptop:

Thinkpad T61p casing

T7300

4GB of ddr2 @ 667MHz I believe 

320GB of HDD (Again, guessing, but pretty sure here)

1680x1050 matte display

9 cell battery

dvd drive

fx570m GPU

 

Budget:  $2500 MAX USD

 

Location: North Carolina, Rockingham County, USA

 

 

What I am looking to upgrade where and why:

Desktop:

I am thinking grab a better GPU. Either a GTX780 or a 780ti or if you can talk it really far up maybe a raedon card. I personally do not want to use a raedon due to personal taste, and would be willing to pay a few $$ more for a Nvidia card to get their smooth performance.

Hard drive wise, I am thinking 2 3TB drives with my current drive as a scratch disk. Maybe seagate, Western Digital or Hatachi depending on price. I do not care for Toshiba drives.

Case wise, I am fine with leaving it on the desk, but if a case is in the budget, then suggest one. I like cubes, and the less flashy the better.

Cooling wise, I am completely fine with what I have, but if you can see a better performing cooler on the market for not markedly much more then suggest it. For personal reasons I will not touch a water cooler (On a risk management basis).

LCD may be due for an overhaul to a 1440p screen, or triple 1080p, but is far down the list.

 

The list of essentials goes:

Storage -> GPU -> CPU -> LCD -> Case.


Laptop:

This I would really like to upgrade and keep the positives of my current one. I want to be able to count on it for 4 years of heavy use, have a high resolution screen, have a cool running CPU (INTEL), and would prefer a dedicated GPU. Brands I would prefer are IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad, Dell Precision/Latitude, and the HP workstation line. May consider others if they carry the same build quality, at a competitive price.

 

So I guess I am looking for parts recomendations to fill in the specifics fitting my budget and preferences outlined above. I also welcome any comments that are constructive towards helping me find the right components. Remember too that Looks are second to performance in my eyes.

 

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

Oh: derp. What do I do with them.

 

Desktop: everything, but havily game.

 

Laptop: Multimedia and maybe some light gaming. Really need a rugged chassis to withstand the torture I throw at them.

[Coombzy]

780 ti and for the laptop if you want it to have pure performance MSI Gaming series or ASUS G series for portability either the MSI GS70 or one of those new Gigabyte ultra portable gaming grade ones 

[Sheldon_King]

Hmm... Maybe I should have worded it better. I am not looking for a gaming laptop. That would be a waste of money in colouring for what I need. I am looking to have a system that can take being dropped off a table (not planning on dropping it, but crap happens). The main things I am looking for in the system are 1080p resolution (or higher), and a rugged design. This is why I was looking at the thinkpad and other business lines. I have not been steered wrong so far with my many thinkpad,latitude and precision laptops. I would rather pay for a business design that is designed to last than to pay extra for power I will likely not use (in a laptop), or features I won't like (flashy lights, many shiny insignia, etc.)

Is the 780ti going to be worth it over a 780 vanilla? What about over the raedon cards? (don't get me wrong, I am going to but a nvidia card regardless).

[Coombzy]

Hmm... Maybe I should have worded it better. I am not looking for a gaming laptop. That would be a waste of money in colouring for what I need. I am looking to have a system that can take being dropped off a table (not planning on dropping it, but crap happens). The main things I am looking for in the system are 1080p resolution (or higher), and a rugged design. This is why I was looking at the thinkpad and other business lines. I have not been steered wrong so far with my many thinkpad,latitude and precision laptops. I would rather pay for a business design that is designed to last than to pay extra for power I will likely not use (in a laptop), or features I won't like (flashy lights, many shiny insignia, etc.)

Is the 780ti going to be worth it over a 780 vanilla? What about over the raedon cards? (don't get me wrong, I am going to but a nvidia card regardless)

Ok well then the x1 carbon would be good for you and the 780 ti is better than any "current" AMD card the 290x and the 780 however are really close in performance they trade blows in different games.

[Sheldon_King]

Okay, I will take a look at the x1 in the morning.

So, will the ti be worth it on a CBA grounds? (I think bang for the buck is what I am looking for word wise.) I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it is not much more than a 780 for.more performance, yes?

And for what it is worth, I am not an nvidia fanboy. I just have had too many issues with drivers to consider them, plus I like to run BONIC apps, and cuda is the tech of choice for my projects of choice.

Also, sorry for any errors made in the language. It is difficult to reply accurately with a phone at 0130 hours.

[WoodenMarker]

Hmm... Maybe I should have worded it better. I am not looking for a gaming laptop. That would be a waste of money in colouring for what I need. I am looking to have a system that can take being dropped off a table (not planning on dropping it, but crap happens). The main things I am looking for in the system are 1080p resolution (or higher), and a rugged design. This is why I was looking at the thinkpad and other business lines. I have not been steered wrong so far with my many thinkpad,latitude and precision laptops. I would rather pay for a business design that is designed to last than to pay extra for power I will likely not use (in a laptop), or features I won't like (flashy lights, many shiny insignia, etc.)

Is the 780ti going to be worth it over a 780 vanilla? What about over the raedon cards? (don't get me wrong, I am going to but a nvidia card regardless).

Just get a ssd for the laptop. See if you still need to upgrade after that.

The 780 Ti isn't that good of a value. Go for the 780 if you need CUDA. Otherwise, get an aftermarket 290 when they come out. It's a great card for $400.

Okay, I will take a look at the x1 in the morning.

So, will the ti be worth it on a CBA grounds? (I think bang for the buck is what I am looking for word wise.) I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it is not much more than a 780 for.more performance, yes?

And for what it is worth, I am not an nvidia fanboy. I just have had too many issues with drivers to consider them, plus I like to run BONIC apps, and cuda is the tech of choice for my projects of choice.

Also, sorry for any errors made in the language. It is difficult to reply accurately with a phone at 0130 hours.

The x1 isn't exactly cheap lol--great thing to hold though. It's nice and light with the Thinkpad feel :3

 

You need to quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them.

[Sheldon_King]

Just get a ssd for the laptop. See if you still need to upgrade after that. 

The 780 Ti isn't that good of a value. Go for the 780 if you need CUDA. Otherwise, get an aftermarket 290 when they come out. It's a great card for $400.

The x1 isn't exactly cheap lol--great thing to hold though. It's nice and light with the Thinkpad feel :3

 

You need to quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them.

I don't think I will venture into that again. I have used my Samsung 830 on this laprop before, and it did not make a large enough difference (for my uses) to justify taking it off the desktop. I am fine with the loading timesof the unit as it is with a hard drive, and the storage requirement does not really heed well for a SSD (Lots of music and movies, which makes for GBs of wasted space. Now I feel bad)).

 

Anyway, the main necessary reasons for an upgrade is more RAM and a more power CPU. The T7300 I have now is just not enough. I am regularly hitting 75-100% usageon both cores. Sure, I could probably get a more powerful CPU for this laptop, something like T9600 (2.8GHz and 2(?) generations newer), but I don't think it would be worth it, seeing as it would still be several generations old.

RAM wise, I could probably get 8GB, but that would be expensive venture though, being DDR2, questionable support (I have not checked this yet), and a necessary OS upgrade (running 32Bit Windows XP). Running the 4GB now, I am using about 70% on average (which is fine. Nothing wrong there, but should I want to start doing something more, then RAM could become a problem.)

 

I don't see why I should keep on about it. I prefer to upgrade rather than go through the hassle of upgrading this laptop. I mean, I understand it would be cheaper, but look at it like thisL It will take a lot to get what I am looking for. New CPU, RAM, OS, LCD (The bezzle is cracked. Not badly, but enough to make me worried. Plus want a 1080/1200 LCD, and this one is 1050), a larger hard drive (This is not bad, I could grab a 750GB WD Black right now). assuming $50 to $100 per part (just a guess, as I don't want to waste bandwith on the phone looking at newegg, and it takes forever to load up), then it is $250 to $500 to upgrade this one, and that is basically a new laptop price right there.

 

 

I prefer the Nvidia cards for Cuda. I am just basically considering three things right now, and that is: a 780ti, a 780, and grabbing another 480. 780ti is the most powerful likely, with gobs of vRAM. The 780 is probably only a few % less, but without a look at prices I can not really justify either.  Another 480 would do several things the 780(ti) will not, which is heat the room (good in winter, as electric is cheaper than LPG), it will allow better performance than I have, and most games I would play support it (Lets face it, simulators will run off 1 480 for a long while yet, and shooters (FPS games, mainly MOH, COD and BFx) generally have SLI/CFx support),and will do it at $150 vs $400+ (guessing again). I am just kind of talking it out here though, I am probably wrong on several assertions here.

 

Th x1 is probably a good machine. But what about the strait thinkpad T series? How do they compare (again, I can probably find this info myself. I will edit back when I find the info if I can.)

 

Okay, first edit:

RAM is out of the consideration for my current laptop. A 8GB kit is $170 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226047) and a 4GB stick is $100 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220495 ), both of which require a OS upgrade to a 64 bit OS, which totals $100 minimum (legally that is, and I amo staying above the law here), so $200 to $270 minimum just ot fix the RAM. Will find the CPU and LCD next and update accordingly.

 

Edit 2:

CPU is actually slightly cheap. Can get it for $35 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLG9F-Intel-Core-Duo-T9600-2-8Ghz-Notebook-Processor-/390617974547?pt=CPUs&hash=item5af2a54713) making the total of $205.

 

LCD is $63 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-T61-T61p-15-4-Complete-LCD-Screen-Assembly-1920x1200-WUXGA-Matte-Grade-A-/400601070867?pt=US_Laptop_Screens_LCD_Panels&hash=item5d45af3d13) making the total $268. Hinges are loose accourding to the ad, so need those too, which are $17, making the cost $285.

 

I will give you that it is cheaper than a new one, but also it is still far outdated tech, and will still be a 965PM chipset, SATA II max, 8GB max (I think), and a fx570m (~9600m GT). I mean, even a sidegrade to a first generation i3/i5/i7 based thinkpad (T500/T510 yes?) would be better. Or matbe a w510, which cost something like ~$540 upgrade (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ThinkPad-Notebook-W510-15-5-Intel-Core-i7-720QM-1-60GHz-4GB-Memory-/291001659866?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item43c10cf1da) (with 1080p, an i7qm, and a fx880m (~GT330m).

[WoodenMarker]

I don't think I will venture into that again. I have used my Samsung 830 on this laprop before, and it did not make a large enough difference (for my uses) to justify taking it off the desktop. I am fine with the loading timesof the unit as it is with a hard drive, and the storage requirement does not really heed well for a SSD (Lots of music and movies, which makes for GBs of wasted space. Now I feel bad)).

Anyway, the main necessary reasons for an upgrade is more RAM and a more power CPU. The T7300 I have now is just not enough. I am regularly hitting 75-100% usageon both cores. Sure, I could probably get a more powerful CPU for this laptop, something like T9600 (2.8GHz and 2(?) generations newer), but I don't think it would be worth it, seeing as it would still be several generations old.

RAM wise, I could probably get 8GB, but that would be expensive venture though, being DDR2, questionable support (I have not checked this yet), and a necessary OS upgrade (running 32Bit Windows XP). Running the 4GB now, I am using about 70% on average (which is fine. Nothing wrong there, but should I want to start doing something more, then RAM could become a problem.)

I don't see why I should keep on about it. I prefer to upgrade rather than go through the hassle of upgrading this laptop. I mean, I understand it would be cheaper, but look at it like thisL It will take a lot to get what I am looking for. New CPU, RAM, OS, LCD (The bezzle is cracked. Not badly, but enough to make me worried. Plus want a 1080/1200 LCD, and this one is 1050), a larger hard drive (This is not bad, I could grab a 750GB WD Black right now). assuming $50 to $100 per part (just a guess, as I don't want to waste bandwith on the phone looking at newegg, and it takes forever to load up), then it is $250 to $500 to upgrade this one, and that is basically a new laptop price right there.

 

I prefer the Nvidia cards for Cuda. I am just basically considering three things right now, and that is: a 780ti, a 780, and grabbing another 480. 780ti is the most powerful likely, with gobs of vRAM. The 780 is probably only a few % less, but without a look at prices I can not really justify either.  Another 480 would do several things the 780(ti) will not, which is heat the room (good in winter, as electric is cheaper than LPG), it will allow better performance than I have, and most games I would play support it (Lets face it, simulators will run off 1 480 for a long while yet, and shooters (FPS games, mainly MOH, COD and BFx) generally have SLI/CFx support),and will do it at $150 vs $400+ (guessing again). I am just kind of talking it out here though, I am probably wrong on several assertions here.

 

Th x1 is probably a good machine. But what about the strait thinkpad T series? How do they compare (again, I can probably find this info myself. I will edit back when I find the info if I can.)

 

I will give you that it is cheaper than a new one, but also it is still far outdated tech, and will still be a 965PM chipset, SATA II max, 8GB max (I think), and a fx570m (~9600m GT). I mean, even a sidegrade to a first generation i3/i5/i7 based thinkpad (T500/T510 yes?) would be better. Or matbe a w510, which cost something like ~$540 upgrade (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ThinkPad-Notebook-W510-15-5-Intel-Core-i7-720QM-1-60GHz-4GB-Memory-/291001659866?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item43c10cf1da) (with 1080p, an i7qm, and a fx880m (~GT330m).

A new Thinkpad sounds like the way to go then.

Caviar Blacks aren't worth the money btw.

 

The 780 Ti is not a good value--high end cards usually aren't. Just look at the 780 price drop and you can really see the premium that Nvidia puts on the card. It's the most powerful and that's the reason why it's so expensive but the cost difference is quite more than the performance boost.

A 780 sounds good. An aftermarket 290--even better. 

Grabbing a 480 doesn't sound like a good idea.

The 780 Ti is $700 here and the 780 is $500. The 290 is $400 and has a wider memory bus and more vram than either of them. The 780 Ti beats it using raw horsepower though. Is it worth the $300 more? Imo, no.

 

I have a T420 myself. Performance is solid for any laptop really as long as you have a ssd. The major difference is just the build quality and feel of the X series. It's like half as thick as the T series and lighter.

I wouldn't recommend upgrading the laptop in anywhere but getting a ssd. I didn't know it was that damaged before. I was thinking of just getting a ssd until you get a better laptop and just reuse the ssd. Now that I have some more details, I'd just recommend a new T series Thinkpad. Wait a bit longer. Lenovo is announcing new Haswell Thinkpads sometime this month.

[Sheldon_King]

I am trying to find a diplomatic way to say this, but am failing.
A SSD is not wanted or needed. Storage is not the main concern here. They are not magic sause. A Vertex4 is not going to make th eprocesor more powerful.

 

The min issue here, and I figured that a tech forum would understand, is deciding weather to replace the laptop or fix the issues. ROI for repairs is that the system is still the same as it always has been, and the feel of the machine will not have changed. The negatives is that it is well past its experation date.  The positives for getting a slightly older (like first generation core i series/ gt300) is that the power will still be there, power usage will go down, and the overall experience will get better, at a competitive price to the reapirs (still more expensive). The negatives are a new docking station, new windows setup, and a higher price. Going even newer a Sandy bridge model is also cheaper than a new one,

 

i am not going to invest in a brand new one for several reasons. Mainly being that I can not self justify the investment. I mean seriously, a new one cost $1000 (T440p base) and $1280 (w530 base). That is a lot of investment to go down the drain should it be droped, or get otherwise damaged, don't you think? And for a minimal increase in performance (would you upgrade a 2500k to a 3570k? A 3570k to a 4670k? a 2500k to a 4670k? the investment is not worth it, considering it is 1/2 or less the price for greater than 1/2 the performance getting a w510. Even with that, it is $800 for a W520 (SB with GTX460m like performance), so would you invest $200 for %20 more CPU performance and less GPU performance? Or $480 for less GPU performance and maybe %10 more CPU performance?  Are you catching what I am throwing?

 

again, for the third time, A SSD is not wanted or needed. It is not the magic cure. People really need to think before squirting SSD sauce everywhere.

 

 

Desktop wise, I am just going to forget it for now. I will do th eresearch on the numbers and do what actually works instead of grabbing something new because it is new like forums everywhere seem to suggest that we do.

 

 

(This probably is coming across as hostile. I am not trying to be, but take what you will from it)

 

Edit: the new haswell thinkpads are already for sale. Why do they announce something after it hits the shelves?

[WoodenMarker]

I am trying to find a diplomatic way to say this, but am failing.

A SSD is not wanted or needed. Storage is not the main concern here. They are not magic sause. A Vertex4 is not going to make th eprocesor more powerful.

The min issue here, and I figured that a tech forum would understand, is deciding weather to replace the laptop or fix the issues. ROI for repairs is that the system is still the same as it always has been, and the feel of the machine will not have changed. The negatives is that it is well past its experation date.  The positives for getting a slightly older (like first generation core i series/ gt300) is that the power will still be there, power usage will go down, and the overall experience will get better, at a competitive price to the reapirs (still more expensive). The negatives are a new docking station, new windows setup, and a higher price. Going even newer a Sandy bridge model is also cheaper than a new one,

 

i am not going to invest in a brand new one for several reasons. Mainly being that I can not self justify the investment. I mean seriously, a new one cost $1000 (T440p base) and $1280 (w530 base). That is a lot of investment to go down the drain should it be droped, or get otherwise damaged, don't you think? And for a minimal increase in performance (would you upgrade a 2500k to a 3570k? A 3570k to a 4670k? a 2500k to a 4670k? the investment is not worth it, considering it is 1/2 or less the price for greater than 1/2 the performance getting a w510. Even with that, it is $800 for a W520 (SB with GTX460m like performance), so would you invest $200 for %20 more CPU performance and less GPU performance? Or $480 for less GPU performance and maybe %10 more CPU performance?  Are you catching what I am throwing?

 

again, for the third time, A SSD is not wanted or needed. It is not the magic cure. People really need to think before squirting SSD sauce everywhere.

 

Desktop wise, I am just going to forget it for now. I will do th eresearch on the numbers and do what actually works instead of grabbing something new because it is new like forums everywhere seem to suggest that we do.

 

(This probably is coming across as hostile. I am not trying to be, but take what you will from it)

Edit: the new haswell thinkpads are already for sale. Why do they announce something after it hits the shelves?

Don't worry, I got that. I'm just saying you should get a ssd even if you get a new laptop. 

I recommended replacing the laptop/ Lenovo has some nice thinkpad sales on black Friday.

 

You don't need a T440p... A Thinkpad E or T series should start around $500 ._.

It's not worth upgrading from a 2500k to another i5. Not much of a performance increase.

I'm not sure what you're referring to because I didn't recommend anything like what you're talking about.

 

You do know you can just use a hdd caddy and put both a ssd and hdd in a thinkpad, right? It should be ~$600 total for a new laptop with the ssd. 

You really only need a gpu upgrade for the desktop. Something like a 7950 would around a 250% upgrade in performance. 

 

They announced it a while ago. I just haven't seen them available yet. I guess I missed that.

[Sheldon_King]

where you said you don't understand, what I was referriing to is getting an older thinkpad used (like a W520 or a T510/T520), seeing as the price is less than 1/2, but the performance will be equal or greater, depending on the exact use (I really like to get a dedicated GPU around a midrange to play a single video game (Command and Conquer 3. A 9600m GT will play it on medium and a 7900m GTX will max it, and a 8400m GT will play it on 720p @ low settings iirc.)(Everything else that I might do don't matter too much, as MOH:AA will run on even intel graphics at good settings, and keyboards are on all laptops.

 

I would think about a 7950, but what about the r9 290/290x? They are basically the 8950 and 8970 yes? The only major issue I see there is the lack of CUDA suport, but it can be run with AMD as the primary GPU and Nvidia as a compute unit. I know the drivers worth th eother way around (Nvidia primary for gaming and AMD to drive independent screens), so as long as we (I) don't mess with Physx, so they will play nice maybe. I don't know, I'll try it out with th espare 4870 when I get home and get back to you.

 

 

I am just not seeing, for my uses, that a SSD makes that large of a difference on the system, for the price they charge. A good SSD would probably make a bit of a difference with a newer system, but I don't have newer systems. I run Vista (I happen to like it better than 7 or 8. Just personal preference), on a 830 with the desktop, and I am looking at maybe 10% less time to start up. Startup times are not that important to me, as I start it maybe once a month, unless there is a power issue to make it turn off. So, 10 seconds a month is not going to make a difference to me.

[WoodenMarker]

where you said you don't understand, what I was referriing to is getting an older thinkpad used (like a W520 or a T510/T520), seeing as the price is less than 1/2, but the performance will be equal or greater, depending on the exact use (I really like to get a dedicated GPU around a midrange to play a single video game (Command and Conquer 3. A 9600m GT will play it on medium and a 7900m GTX will max it, and a 8400m GT will play it on 720p @ low settings iirc.)(Everything else that I might do don't matter too much, as MOH:AA will run on even intel graphics at good settings, and keyboards are on all laptops.

 

I would think about a 7950, but what about the r9 290/290x? They are basically the 8950 and 8970 yes? The only major issue I see there is the lack of CUDA suport, but it can be run with AMD as the primary GPU and Nvidia as a compute unit. I know the drivers worth th eother way around (Nvidia primary for gaming and AMD to drive independent screens), so as long as we (I) don't mess with Physx, so they will play nice maybe. I don't know, I'll try it out with th espare 4870 when I get home and get back to you.

 

I am just not seeing, for my uses, that a SSD makes that large of a difference on the system, for the price they charge. A good SSD would probably make a bit of a difference with a newer system, but I don't have newer systems. I run Vista (I happen to like it better than 7 or 8. Just personal preference), on a 830 with the desktop, and I am looking at maybe 10% less time to start up. Startup times are not that important to me, as I start it maybe once a month, unless there is a power issue to make it turn off. So, 10 seconds a month is not going to make a difference to me.

How much would the older thinkpad cost?

I'm thinking the integrated graphics of the haswell thinkpads should be plenty for light gaming. 

 

A 7950 would be great for 1080p. There's no 8950/8970 but I guess you can call it that...? The 290/290x aren't meant for 1080p. 

What would you need CUDA for?

 

Ssd's aren't for the startup. Everything on it runs smoother with it. Browsers and such are snappier because the cache is on it, etc. Programs open in a snap. The startup is nice to show off but it is hardly the point of getting a ssd.

Also a ssd really breathes life into older systems making them feel like new systems. 

 

Please quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them. The only reason I see your response is because I keep tabs open on new members and stalk around because it takes a while before they get used to quoting or tagging.

[Sheldon_King]

How much would the older thinkpad cost?

I'm thinking the integrated graphics of the haswell thinkpads should be plenty for light gaming. 

 

A 7950 would be great for 1080p. There's no 8950/8970 but I guess you can call it that...? The 290/290x aren't meant for 1080p. 

What would you need CUDA for?

 

Ssd's aren't for the startup. Everything on it runs smoother with it. Browsers and such are snappier because the cache is on it, etc. Programs open in a snap. The startup is nice to show off but it is hardly the point of getting a ssd.

Also a ssd really breathes life into older systems making them feel like new systems. 

 

Please quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them. The only reason I see your response is because I keep tabs open on new members and stalk around because it takes a while before they get used to quoting or tagging.

A w520 cost $800 + shipping, and it comes with a 2820QM, 500GB HDD, 8GB DDR3, and Quadro 2000m (which is a 128 bit GTX 460m with ECC VRAM). To compare that a T440p is $979 with a haswell i7, GT730m, and the standard memory offerings on HDD and SSD. Looking at it fom the GPU side of things, we are comparing a GTX460m to a GT750m. The 460 has less cores (192 vs 384), but is stronger core for core (Fermi has hotclock shaders, while Kepler does not, meaning 384 is equal to 192, with fatser clockrates, and missing the ECC memory (Which I can deal with, but don't really want to). So I am guessing that the 2 cards should be about equal if you overclock the 2000m to the same clockrate. Looking around, it seems that the GPU is soldered on the w520, so there is no replacing it to something like the 470m or anything later on. So... I may look for a MXM compatible laptop too, just in case.

I am not sure what I am going to do actually, still planning, so we will figure on it and update later. But I am definitely either going to upgrade the one I have, since that is cheaper, or get a thinkpad w series (since they are the only ones worth getting for what I wish to do).

 

The integrated GPUs on Haswell may be quite powerful, but I am not going to use an intel GPU for gaming. That is just asking to get left out in the dark. Seriously, the last time HD3000 got a driver update was back in august. So should there be a driver issue/conflict with a game or program, you are looking at 6moths+ wait time for a fix, should there even be a fix. AMD and Nvidia it is closer to 3 moths release cycle on drivers (if memory holds, and maybe quicker on Beta drivers). Again, I may be worrying about nothing, but a dedicated GPU is always going to be better for any games, and many programs that can take advantage of the power (I don't use any on the laptop now, but can never tell what may happen in the future). 

 

I think you understood what I was saying there. I was basically asking if they are the top 2 single GPU cards for AMD this cycle. 290 being the lower (8950) and 290x above it (8970)? I don't know though, the naming scheme is more than a little confusing, but I am just going to guess the R# runs is basically the second number in the old name, so R7 is like 7700/7800 series and R9 is like  7800/7900 or something of the like. I don't know, it is very confusing. At least Nvidia is fine for 2 more generations (GTX800 and GTX900).

Meant for it or not, there are more things to do on a GPU than just Crysis/BF/COD. Games are not the only thing than can harness the power (for instance, you could run a Titan @ 800x600 resolution running GPU grid and do better on average than running 4k with the same workload.

I am using CUDA for GPU grid at the moment, and I overall PREFER Nvidia to AMD.I have used both in the past, and currently, and I just like Nvidia better. It does what I ask of it without throwing a fit with drivers and such. When I ran a 6970 before my 480, it was pretty much just pick which game you want to play, cause getting a driver to run without crashing was on a game by game basis, whereas the Nvidia drivers will run anything I have thrown at it so far.

 

If you say so, but I have experienced the exact opposite. Running Windows Vista Ultimate SP2, Drivers, OpenOffice (probably behind a release or 2 there), and Chrome+Opera (Opera is only used for FlashVideo as there is a bug on Chrome that makes it a hit and miss game to get full screen flash working), I have noticed no change with eth SSD aside from starting up faster. With a game on there, th elevels load faster, but is it fast enough to be worth $0.83/GB, no. Maybe it is Vista, or maybe my 830 is messed up or something, but from day of purchase I have never seen any improvement to justify the purchase. So if you say it will be worth it on a notebook, I am going to say okay, and then not get one. Not until I see a definite reason to pay 10x more per GB for the same basic use.

 

 

I am sorry about that, but when I pull up the site in Opera on my Galaxy S2, I don't see the quote button at all, so I would have to manually quote you, shich I don't think would work the same way. Not sure how tagging works either. Works fine on FF/Chrome/Opera on the desktop and laptop, so it is definitely a problem on the phone, not the site.

 

** Just in case I missed it, and I think I said it in one of the above post too, but CUDA is used for my projects of choice on BOINC (GPU Grid). There are projects for AMD, yes, but I have had issues with their drivers in the past, so I would rather pay a premium for Nvidia to get better driver support. This is my Opinion only.

[Sheldon_King]

okay, since this is just an update on the parts I am considering, and you were quoted in the last post, I will leave this without a quote

 

Here is what I am considering at this moment to update my desktop. Still considering if I actually need to or not, seeing as everything I have runs fine as is. May just grab a screen and be done there

 

New needings, and I will make a thread in the appropriate section, but headphones. My JVCs are only playing out the left side now. But here is what I am considering:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA22A1521899 (its $127.90 so you don't have to cart it to see)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1JX12E0613

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZS17S5473

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3J817P5887

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1391527929

I am leaning to the ATH-M50s, but idk. Like said, I will make a thread in the right section.

 

Sound card is probably a good upgrade. Not too sure, will check it out farther, but here is what I am looking at for that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132010

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033

Leaning to the creative, since I have had good use of their USB sound cards. Asus is probably just as good or better, based on their GPUs and Motherboards that I have used.

 

GPUs I am looking at are:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133524

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125478

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131468

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121779

I am leaning to the Asus 780 or the 7970 if I upgrade at all.

 

Laptop wise, I have looked around and not really found much that peaks my interest.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-GT683DXR-15-6-Notebook-Windows-8-Pro-17-5-GB-RAM-/171153014426?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item27d983be9a (this one looks too fancy. The hardware is excellent, but idk if I like it)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-y580-Gaming-Laptop-1TB-8GB-Geforce-660GTX-2GB-i7-2-3Ghz-BluRay-Burn-/271314025964?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item3f2b937dec (this one has gaming hardware, a low enough price, without being flashy)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-GE60-0ND-257US-15-6-750-GB-Intel-i7-3rd-Gen-2-4-GHz-8-GB-Windows8-KEY-/131047134422?pt=Laptops_Nov05&hash=item1e830494d6 (also low enough price, gaming hardware, and a toned down look.)

[WoodenMarker]

@Sheldon_King <--that's how you tag

 

How's this look for a laptop? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834313583

 

Ignore the R# before the cards. They're just excess and don't need to be regarded. 

Basic breakdown is 270x = 7870, 280x = 7970, 290, 290x. The 290x is just a slightly more powerful version of the 290. It's kind of like the 780 and Titan. 

AMD has been hard at work with their drivers and they have greatly improved. 

For some perspective, because of the new drivers: 660 < 7850 < 7870 < 660 Ti < 760 < 7950 < 770 = 7970 

It's awkward that you haven't seen any improvements with the ssd change. Going from hdd to ssd is one the biggest and most noticeable upgrades you should be able to make. Have you tried comparing it to going back to a standard hdd yet? Consider that most laptops use 5400 rpm drives.

If you don't feel the difference between the a hdd and ssd, it sounds just as weird to me as someone who doesn't feel the difference between a 1280x1024 and 2560x1440 display.

[Sheldon_King]

@WoodenMarker

 

I have been back and forth between the SSD and the HDD a couple of times actually. I have basically been bouncing it between the desktop and laptops when I first got it, back when I was still in school and instant boot was kind of important for me. But for basic day to day use, booting up, using the web (with multiple browsers), Word Processing (Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and Abiword), and gaming I have not seen an improvement too much at all. Even using the Desktop (SATA III with a Samsung 830) sitting right next to my laptop (SATA I/II 5400 RPM WD Blue 320GB (IIRC, may be a 500GB)) I don't see the difference with just running Chrome(DT)/Firefox(LT), I am not seeing a major difference. Both load up programs nearly instantly, and most of the snags on the laptop come right at the point the CPU or RAM is at 100% usage, which even the desktop would skip opening a new program at that point, but the 2 core 2 thread processor is basically trying to fight fire with Napalm. 

As for the display comparison of resolutions there, I understand that. Might sound stupid, but I prefer the 1366x768 Dell screen over my 1920x1080 Acer, but that is just because it is a sharper image to my eyes (No glare, Better colors, and better size for me). I mean, I get the bonuses of a higher resolution screen, but my 1080 is crap, (sorry, I am rambling.) 

 

I understand how the series stacks up to itself, I just don't quite get how it is stacking up against last gen and Nvidia, but It is not really going to matter too much. I am not too much worried about the card though, as it is only going to be a real problem when I get BF4 and COD Ghost, probably mid december, and they both support CFx and SLI, so it may be worth the $$ saving to grab another 480 and a SLI Bridge. The only downside there is the power usage, and the landlord pays the electric, so not an issue (and like 85% improvement on games. Which I don't see a reason to need too much more, as I can max just about everything I play right now.). 

 

That laptop looks fine, but not really something I am considering at this point. I mean, the specs are great, but no optical drive is a turn off (I know I can go USB for that), as well as SLI, as that will reduce battery life. I am actually going to look into just upgrading my current laptop first. I will get around to it in a second. Really the machine I have does everything but Game, and I have my desktop for that. Really I don't care to game mobile anyway, but it is nice to have on a long weekend away from home. (then again, a PSP/Gameboy would be cheaper than a gaming laptop for that one single purpose only. Might be worth a look.) 

[WoodenMarker]

As for the display comparison of resolutions there, I understand that. Might sound stupid, but I prefer the 1366x768 Dell screen over my 1920x1080 Acer, but that is just because it is a sharper image to my eyes (No glare, Better colors, and better size for me). I mean, I get the bonuses of a higher resolution screen, but my 1080 is crap, (sorry, I am rambling.) 

 

I understand how the series stacks up to itself, I just don't quite get how it is stacking up against last gen and Nvidia, but It is not really going to matter too much. I am not too much worried about the card though, as it is only going to be a real problem when I get BF4 and COD Ghost, probably mid december, and they both support CFx and SLI, so it may be worth the $$ saving to grab another 480 and a SLI Bridge. The only downside there is the power usage, and the landlord pays the electric, so not an issue (and like 85% improvement on games. Which I don't see a reason to need too much more, as I can max just about everything I play right now.). 

 

That laptop looks fine, but not really something I am considering at this point. I mean, the specs are great, but no optical drive is a turn off (I know I can go USB for that), as well as SLI, as that will reduce battery life. I am actually going to look into just upgrading my current laptop first. I will get around to it in a second. Really the machine I have does everything but Game, and I have my desktop for that. Really I don't care to game mobile anyway, but it is nice to have on a long weekend away from home. (then again, a PSP/Gameboy would be cheaper than a gaming laptop for that one single purpose only. Might be worth a look.) 

Just get a nice IPS panel. Chances are your Acer was a TN panel.

 

I included Nvidia cards in the lineup too. What don't you get?

It's not really worth going for a 480 sli. A single more powerful will have less problems.

 

With sli, one of the cards will basically turn off until you need more power.  

[Sheldon_King]

@WoodenMarker

Maybe I was not being clear, I was trying to explain where I did not understand naming wise. I get your little greater than system there, but there is more than just 8 cards out there. Just don't worry about it, it seems we are just confusing each other, so lets figure everything else out, then come back to it. 

 

I fail to see how getting another one would not help. We are talking a single 1080p screen here (my Dell 768 screen is running off the HD3000 on the processor), and vRAM is not really a concern currently, so it will not be a concern with the upgrade. Power is not a concern. Drivers wise, it will be a simple reinstall with enabling SLI, and should a game throw fits, just turn off SLI. No different than Crossfire was with the HD6970s (even though I only ran CFx like 3 days before ditching AMD all together). The games that will need it (BF4, COD:G, BF3, Etc.) will have support for it, and it will come out cheaper, leaving money for more upgrades. Seeing where I am going with it, $150<$300 minimum, leaving more for fixing the rest of my screwed up computing setup. I am fine with running something that is not new, and I don't see the problem with it. If SLI works on a GTX660, it will also work on 2 480s just as well (they should be about as well matched as that generation gets. Maybe 2x650 boost  might be better comparison.)  

I think what is going on here is a ROI disagreement. You are probably thinking the price is not that great (assuming $150 shipped, as that is what this one cost almost a year ago). The price is not that great compared to the performance, yes. But getting a 7950 (closest thing in $$ value) or the like would mean messing with new BOINC apps, new drivers, and maybe or maybe not switching motherboards again. (the extreme 4 has VGA for the second monitor. If I have a card with VGA, or a screen with DVI to replace it, then I will go back to the P8P67 WS board, as it performs better. I don't know where I am going here, I think I confused myself. Anyway, the 480 makes since (is that the right one spelling wise?) to me due to less investment off the bat, and no reinstall to make it work (just wipe the drivers, and reinstall. Maybe just install card and activate SLI. Not sure if that would work). 

 

Acer is. I still have it. Model # is G226HQL. TN is probably what it is, whatever the cheap ones are. It works well enough for its uses though, so no need to do anything with it. Can't really upgrade it either, as that would mean getting a new LCD, and mean getting rid of this one. There is hardly a market for it local, and it likely would not even fetch half list, making the venture useless. That is unless i got a new desk, which I am not going to get. 

 

I don't know. I am concentrating on the laptop right now. So let me get that figured out, and I will go back to the desktop. I am trying to do this on the lowest budget possible. Basically not just spending money cause I have it. (Which It is going to be a few weeks before I have the check anyway. That's why I started ahead, was to not have to have a time constraint. Just deposit and order). 

 

Only bad thing is the RAM prices are just outrageous.

 

Laptop wise, what I have is almost enough, and I know the system well, so I am probably going to just upgrade the one I have. It will not take that much of the budget to do that. 
Item | Cost | Budget left 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-T61-T61p-15-4-Complete-LCD-Screen-Assembly-1920x1200-WUXGA-Matte-Grade-A-/400601070867?pt=US_Laptop_Screens_LCD_Panels&hash=item5d45af3d13 | $62.99   | $2437.01

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2-Duo-T9500-2-6Ghz-6M-800-CPU-SLAYX-Mobile-Laptop-Processor-/161144583819?pt=CPUs&hash=item2584f7368b  | $69.99   | $2374.02

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220384   | $183.99 | $2190.03

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211602   | $79.99   | $2110.04

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Backup-Portable-External-STBU1000100/dp/B00829THO6/ref=sr_1_6?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1384570675&sr=1-6  | $59.99   | $2050.05

 

okay, that would probably bring the laptop back op to spec just fine. CPU is compatible (already checked), disassembly is not too bad. The RAM is compatible spec wise, but I will have to check with Lenovo to make sure that it will play nice. The SSD on there will go in one or the other of the desktop or this, depending on which is faster (desktop). The Screen is just to have the slightly better resolution. Watching a 1080p movie gets tiring on a 1050 screen, plus the bezel is cracked anyway. The external HDD is as simple as I can't fit everything on the SSD, and the price is cheaper than a single 1TB internal as it is. I still don't think the SSD will make that much of a difference, but at least with 2 we can determine if it really isn't helping, or if it is a problem with the 830 I have, yes?

 

The rest is up in the air until I can figure out what I need where, and how to set it up. I am going to also have to find a Vista install CD for Business 64 bit to put the extra RAM in (Vista business is the key I have on the laptop). But we will cross that bridge when we come to it.    

[WoodenMarker]

@Sheldon_King

If you don't mind a more heat, noise, and any sli problems, go ahead and get another 480. I think a single 770 would just be less hassle though. 

 

Yea, that's a TN panel.

 

In any case, having another ssd to test the issue would be nice and is always reusable. I haven't used the 830 myself but I have used the adata ssd. It was really snappy. 

[Sheldon_King]

@WoodenMarker

 

Okay, so if I am understanding this right, the TN is bad? Or rather a lower end part? Either way it is not that bad, the colors are great on the 768 Dell and the LCD on the laptop, so no harm done with that one panel.

 

I don't know what I am going to do with the GPU. I don't mind giving it a try. Worst thing that could happen is some microstutter issues, and that is as simple as turn down the settings, or run on a single card. Nothing I have not ran into before. The main thing though was to try and avoid a reinstall, but that is going to have to come anyway to swap the SSDs, so I may just get a 7950/7970. It will depend on the budget. I ill just budget for everything else and see what I can get GPU wise. Like I probably said here somewhere, I am not having any issue at all running game as is, but the SLI option is mainly to maintain the same level for the next generation of FPS games. (I don't foresee it being an issue with the next gen simulators, as they are CPU limited anyway).

 

Do you have any knowledge on sound systems or storage arrays (basically RAID arrays)?

[WoodenMarker]

@Sheldon_King

For some reason what you're doing isn't tagging me. You should just be typing it out--nothing special.

 

TN panels have poorer color reproduction and viewing angles. IPS is much better.

 

I'm not an audiophile and a storage expert. I know some things but you might want to head over to the Audio and Storage sections if you want some in depth info on some more complicated stuff. 

[Sheldon_King]

@WoodenMarker

Lets see if that will do it. What I did was highlight you name, copy it, type the @ symbol, then paste your name. It does not look any different than just typing it out, except it did not turn blue this time.

 

iirc, IPS are also much more expensive. Would dell have really put an IPS in a 1366x768 panel? Not really important either way. The two panels I have are perfectly fine. The laptop panel here, is about half way in the middle as far as colors, but it is matte (which really helps). I'll never understand why anyone buys gloss screens, but I guess there is a reason or they would not make them.

 

 

I think I solved the storage question myself actually. I was worrying that if I got a set of 3TB drives and set them to RAID5 (9TB usable) that the OS would throw a fit trying to access it, but that would be there no matter what with the 3TB drives. Should be as simple as install with GPT set up on a motherboard that supports drives larger than 2TB (which P8P67 WS and z77 Extreme 4 should), and the OS should support it iirc (Vista Ultimate 64 bit). Ill read on and see how I go about that.

 

Audio wise, I will go there and ask closer to when I am actually ready to buy instead of just planning (should be 2 weeks or so).  I am basically just trying to find a decent set of headphones and a sound card to match them (if necessary). Actually, I think I already solved that too. Thinking the ATH-M50 or the beyerdynamic DT 770m Maybe the Custom One. Ill figure it out later, take a trip to a store and listen to them in person to make up my mind. Or maybe just replace my HA-M5X's that are broken.

 

I think we have pretty much figured it out, except for the GPU, Storage, and Sound, and I have a decent Idea of what I want there.

 

 

Thanks so much for your help. And please let me know if the tag worked this time.

[WoodenMarker]

Yeah, typing it out worked for tagging.

 

IPS isn't actually that much more if you look in the right places. I doubt there's an IPS panel below 1080p. That's an awkward request you have there..

Gloss screens don't wash out in colors as easily and look better in pictures.

[Sheldon_King]

@WoodenMarker 

Glad it worked this time. Seems that just copy and paste does not work too well. 

 

What's an awkward request? I don't think I was requesting an IPS screen on either of them, I was really just wondering if Dell would have done it. Either way the smaller resolution is the better screen for gaming (basically it looks better to the eye, even with the smaller resolution). I don't see a reason to invest in a new screen for the desktop though. 1440p is always an option, but their price is still quite high, and would probably need a 2+GB GPU to run a game on that. Movies and such are fine on 1080p, and probably will be for a while. 

hmm... I don't understand that too much. All my workstation laptops have had much better colors with matte than with glossy screens. But that may be more to do with the panels that Dell and IBM/Lenovo have chosen than the actual gloss. Being workstations I guess it is possible that they could have used Matte IPS versus gloss TN on consumer grade laptops (Like Acer and Gateway). I don't know, its not that important in the long run. 

[Sheldon_King]

@WoodenMarker 

 

Okay, so a little update on my current laptop. Cleaned it out and reapplied the thermal paste (AS5) to see what I could do to improve the performance for free. Seems to have helped a bit actually. Running 100% CPU (Prime 95 Blend) load the max temp has been 75*C (Using CoreTemp to monitor), which is low enough that it is not downclocking. (To show the difference, the pre repair temps were 95* with full load). 

 

The hard drive is a WD Blue 320GB 5400RPM. CPU socket is 479 pin, so that kind of limits the upgrades, but I think I already figured that into the equation. 

 

I will give it a day or 2 with the cleaned up assembly to determine if anything else needs to be done. May perform better with the lower temps maintaining a higher clockrate (I would assume that if it is running too hot it would downclock to avoid damage, yes?)