Ram overclocking

[Skiiwee29]

So looking for a little help on RAM overclocking and timing tweaking. This is my first time really doing it outside X.M.P.

 

I just swapped ram and put in Corsair Vengeance LPX with X.M.P profile to 3200mhz. However as I have discussed in a previous thread, my CPU has poor IMC so I can only do 3000mhz at 1.42 volts otherwise it is unstable in stress tests as well as Memtest86. So today I have begun dialing in my timings from the default 16-18-18-36: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0143UM4TC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Currently I have it at 14-14-16-34 but CPUz is not showing it correctly. CPUz is showing 14-16-16-34. My BIOS is showing it this way too even though I have manually tweaked it. Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful. 

 

 

 

 

 

Full system is in my signature should you need any further information. 

[MageTank]

3 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

So looking for a little help on RAM overclocking and timing tweaking. This is my first time really doing it outside X.M.P.

 

I just swapped ram and put in Corsair Vengeance LPX with X.M.P profile to 3200mhz. However as I have discussed in a previous thread, my CPU has poor IMC so I can only do 3000mhz at 1.42 volts otherwise it is unstable in stress tests as well as Memtest86. So today I have begun dialing in my timings from the default 16-18-18-36: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0143UM4TC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Currently I have it at 14-14-16-34 but CPUz is not showing it correctly. CPUz is showing 14-16-16-34. My BIOS is showing it this way too even though I have manually tweaked it. Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full system is in my signature should you need any further information. 

Wild shot in the dark here. Is MCR Fast Boot turned on? It will often screw with training, even if you do it manually. Oh, and before you blame the CPU IMC, tweak tertiary timings. Depending on how your motherboard trains your kit, it can often cause instability unrelated to the IMC itself.

 

Seeing as your kit is Samsung IC's, and dual-rank, I am pretty sure we can get these things to work fine at their rated speed with just a little tweaking. If you are wanting to take the time, I'll gladly walk you through it. 

[done12many2]

10 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

So looking for a little help on RAM overclocking and timing tweaking. This is my first time really doing it outside X.M.P.

 

I just swapped ram and put in Corsair Vengeance LPX with X.M.P profile to 3200mhz. However as I have discussed in a previous thread, my CPU has poor IMC so I can only do 3000mhz at 1.42 volts otherwise it is unstable in stress tests as well as Memtest86. So today I have begun dialing in my timings from the default 16-18-18-36: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0143UM4TC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Currently I have it at 14-14-16-34 but CPUz is not showing it correctly. CPUz is showing 14-16-16-34. My BIOS is showing it this way too even though I have manually tweaked it. Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful. 

 

Full system is in my signature should you need any further information. 

 

 

You'll want to train your memory with each big adjustment.  For instance, if you want to take your 3200 memory from 3200 to say 3600, you'll want to reboot and train in increments vice jumping straight to 3600.  Same thing applies with large timing changes.

[MageTank]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

 

You'll want to train your memory with each big adjustment.  For instance, if you want to take your 3200 memory from 3200 to say 3600, you'll want to reboot and train in increments vice jumping straight to 3600.  Same thing applies with large timing changes.

There is also the issue of changing timings without checking VCCIO/VCCSA. Leaving these values on auto, while tinkering with timings that impact RTL/IO-L is just asking for trouble in terms of stability. I have yet to see a Skylake IMC fail 3200, so I am fairly confident that I can get his kit to run at 3200 or beyond. Even my G4400 went higher than that, lol. 

[done12many2]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

There is also the issue of changing timings without checking VCCIO/VCCSA. Leaving these values on auto, while tinkering with timings that impact RTL/IO-L is just asking for trouble in terms of stability. I have yet to see a Skylake IMC fail 3200, so I am fairly confident that I can get his kit to run at 3200 or beyond. Even my G4400 went higher than that, lol. 

 

Yeah, he had problems in the past and we had him adjust IO/SA a bit, but nothing changed there.  What worked in his case was DRAM voltage so I think his IMC is fine.

[MageTank]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

Yeah, he had problems in the past and we had him adjust IO/SA a bit, but nothing changed there.  What worked in his case was DRAM voltage so I think his IMC is fine.

I'd love to see a screenshot of his tertiary timings. Something tells me his board isn't training them right. I'd also like to see RTL/IO-L offsets. 

[done12many2]

 

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I'd love to see a screenshot of his tertiary timings. Something tells me his board isn't training them right. I'd also like to see RTL/IO-L offsets. 

 

 

Well somebody better WAKE UP while he has a full house.    Unlike you, memory work makes me want to take a nap.

 

[MageTank]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

 

 

Well somebody better WAKE UP while he has a full house.    Unlike you, memory work makes me want to take a nap.

 

Am quite tired myself. Just got through a 46 hour work week, and will likely be asleep in the next hour. Still, I'd like to get him on the right track before I go. Got a few likely culprits to look for. Specifically VCCIO/SA (Too high is just as unstable as too low), RTL/IO-L offsets (making sure they are not training poorly) and tRDWR (which should be the exact same value as his CL, no tighter). If I do end up falling asleep, hopefully he sees this post and investigates. 

[Skiiwee29]

14 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Wild shot in the dark here. Is MCR Fast Boot turned on? It will often screw with training, even if you do it manually. Oh, and before you blame the CPU IMC, tweak tertiary timings. Depending on how your motherboard trains your kit, it can often cause instability unrelated to the IMC itself.

 

Seeing as your kit is Samsung IC's, and dual-rank, I am pretty sure we can get these things to work fine at their rated speed with just a little tweaking. If you are wanting to take the time, I'll gladly walk you through it. 

Well here is the thread where we discovered the bad IMC or what we think is poor IMC if you want to get it a look through. Basically when I set XMP on, I get game crashes etc and tons of errors in Memtest86. Only when I would drop the speed from 3200mhz and set the voltage from 1.35v to 1.42 would it be 100% stable with no errors in memtest86 and no crashes in games or stability testing. 

 

 

[done12many2]

Just now, MageTank said:

Am quite tired myself. Just got through a 46 hour work week, and will likely be asleep in the next hour. Still, I'd like to get him on the right track before I go. Got a few likely culprits to look for. Specifically VCCIO/SA (Too high is just as unstable as too low), RTL/IO-L offsets (making sure they are not training poorly) and tRDWR (which should be the exact same value as his CL, no tighter). If I do end up falling asleep, hopefully he sees this post and investigates. 

 

I knew this applied to 4 dimm configurations, but does it apply the same with 2?  I always run 4 sticks so everything I know is with that configuration.  I always manually set tRDWR.

 

I learned the hard way about too high/low VCCIO/VCCSA a long time ago.  More definitely isn't always better.

[Skiiwee29]

@done12many2 @MageTank Here is screenshots of my BIOS from just now for you guys to pour through and figure it out.

 

 

[done12many2]

Yeah, your memory is not training correctly and setting your timings wrong.  

 

Right off the bat, these are wrong.

 

@MageTank is the expert here so he'll get you running at a higher memory clock speed for sure.  If for some reason he's already passed out from too much work, I'll check back in shortly.

 

 

 

[Skiiwee29]

Just now, done12many2 said:

Yeah, your memory is not training correctly and setting your timings wrong.  

 

Right off the bat, these are wrong.

 

@MageTank is the expert here so he'll get you running at a higher memory clock speed for sure.  If for some reason he's already passed out from too much work, I'll check back in shortly.

 

 

Thanks. Memory timings and settings have been something I just set and forget type of thing and trusted they were giving me the best I could get. But as you know since you helped me previously, this was not the case this time around, leading me to tinker in things I do not 100% understand. If its CPU and GPU, I'm all day on that no problems usually, but when it comes to Memory, whole new world for me outside of X.M.P. enabling. 

[MageTank]

7 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

@done12many2 @MageTank Here is screenshots of my BIOS from just now for you guys to pour through and figure it out.

Ok. First off, turn "Memory Fast Boot" off. Next, lower that CPU SA voltage from 1.26 down to 1.2. 1.26 is awfully aggressive for how low your ram is clocked. I personally run 1.14, but my tertiary timings are fine-tuned. 1.2 should be plenty.

 

Next, change tRDWRSG, tRDWRDG, tRDWRDR and tRDWRDD to 14, to match your Cas Latency value. Having these values tighter than your CL, not only causes more stress on the IMC, but it also gives you no real benefit in speed. RTL/IO-L offsets look fine, which is good. This will save us a ton of time toying with RTL Init to try to stabilize those. @done12many2 correctly pointed out an anomaly with your tWRWR timings, which I would personally loosen to 8 each. Your kit is Samsung, and these specific timings require 8-8 for best performance. In fact, going lower with this timing is simply worse in every regard (both in terms of speed and stability).

 

You shouldn't worry too much about _DD timings (timings that end with DD instead of DR, DG, or SG) since you are not using 2DPC or 2 DIMMS Per Channel (you have 1 8gb stick in each channel). Do not worry about these timings unless you have OCD and simply want them to be the same as the rest. Once you do all this, bring that VDIMM back down to 1.35. I simply see no need in having your VDIMM that high, you shouldn't need it unless the kit itself is lackluster. Once you validate this with memtest86 (specifically Test 6 Block Move), we will move forward with creating a tight, stable profile before going further with overclocking. While I can't teach you how to OC memory (a lot of it is based heavily on luck and voodoo magic) I can teach you my methodology for diagnosing ram, and the usual suspects for when things go wrong. 

[done12many2]

8 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I can teach you my methodology for diagnosing ram, and the usual suspects for when things go wrong. 

 

I need this in my life!  Let me know when class is in session.  I have a blank notebook and some sharp pencils on the ready.

 

I can make memory run faster, but I suck at the very basic fundamentals and would like to know more.

[MageTank]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

I need this in my life!  Let me know when class is in session.  I have a blank notebook and some sharp pencil on the ready.

 

I can make memory run faster, but I suck at the very basic fundamentals and would like to know more.

As long as you promise to be a much better student than @Lays. I can give him the same answer repeatedly, and he will still ask the same question just days later. 

[done12many2]

Just now, MageTank said:

As long as you promise to be a much better student than @Lays. I can give him the same answer repeatedly, and he will still ask the same question just days later. 

 

You better believe it bud.  I take this shit very seriously.  I tire easily of things I lack an understanding in, but once you give me just a little understanding, I become borderline obsessive in that area.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

You better believe it bud.  I take this shit very seriously.  I tire easily of things I lack an understanding in, but once you give me just a little understanding, I become borderline obsessive in that area.

When I wake up tomorrow, I'll give you everything I know, lol.

[done12many2]

Just now, MageTank said:

When I wake up tomorrow, I'll give you everything I know, lol.

 

Sounds good man.  I appreciate it.  I'm usually up and moving by 0630 EST, but my brain doesn't work until roughly 0800.  Time to go watch TWD with the wife.  Later.

[Skiiwee29]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

Ok. First off, turn "Memory Fast Boot" off. Next, lower that CPU SA voltage from 1.26 down to 1.2. 1.26 is awfully aggressive for how low your ram is clocked. I personally run 1.14, but my tertiary timings are fine-tuned. 1.2 should be plenty.

 

Next, change tRDWRSG, tRDWRDG, tRDWRDR and tRDWRDD to 14, to match your Cas Latency value. Having these values tighter than your CL, not only causes more stress on the IMC, but it also gives you no real benefit in speed. RTL/IO-L offsets look fine, which is good. This will save us a ton of time toying with RTL Init to try to stabilize those. @done12many2 correctly pointed out an anomaly with your tWRWR timings, which I would personally loosen to 8 each. Your kit is Samsung, and these specific timings require 8-8 for best performance. In fact, going lower with this timing is simply worse in every regard (both in terms of speed and stability).

 

You shouldn't worry too much about _DD timings (timings that end with DD instead of DR, DG, or SG) since you are not using 2DPC or 2 DIMMS Per Channel (you have 1 8gb stick in each channel). Do not worry about these timings unless you have OCD and simply want them to be the same as the rest. Once you do all this, bring that VDIMM back down to 1.35. I simply see no need in having your VDIMM that high, you shouldn't need it unless the kit itself is lackluster. Once you validate this with memtest86 (specifically Test 6 Block Move), we will move forward with creating a tight, stable profile before going further with overclocking. While I can't teach you how to OC memory (a lot of it is based heavily on luck and voodoo magic) I can teach you my methodology for diagnosing ram, and the usual suspects for when things go wrong. 

 

Alright, everything is set like you mentioned here and we tested 100% clean in Memtest. I had to run it twice as the first time I forgot to set the SA voltage to 1.2, but same result. 

 

 

MSI_SnapShot_09.bmp

MSI_SnapShot_10.bmp

MSI_SnapShot_08.bmp

[Lays]

6 hours ago, MageTank said:

As long as you promise to be a much better student than @Lays. I can give him the same answer repeatedly, and he will still ask the same question just days later. 

 

 

 

[MageTank]

8 hours ago, legacy99 said:

 

Alright, everything is set like you mentioned here and we tested 100% clean in Memtest. I had to run it twice as the first time I forgot to set the SA voltage to 1.2, but same result. 

No errors in Memtest? Good, that means the IMC is happy with the results. Let me know when you are ready to work on increasing the speed. 

[done12many2]

3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Let me know when you are ready to work on increasing the speed. 

 

[Skiiwee29]

7 hours ago, MageTank said:

No errors in Memtest? Good, that means the IMC is happy with the results. Let me know when you are ready to work on increasing the speed. 

I have bumped the speed from 3000 back up to 3200 where the kit is rated at and am getting no errors. 

[MageTank]

Just now, legacy99 said:

I have bumped the speed from 3000 back up to 3200 where the kit is rated at and am getting no errors. 

Nicely done. Feel free to explore even higher speeds, or even tighter timings. It's all about trial and error.