New Workstation | Gaming Rig

[holp]

Hello Guys,

 

I have had my current PC for more than 5 years, so it's due time for a replacement (Q9300,GTX 8800,4gb RAM). Im still a little bit undecided on a couple of components and would highly appreciate some input / expertise from people a little more educated than I am. Since I came to watch LinusTechTips almost religiously I figured this forum would be a good location to find said "educated" people.

 

The main purpose of the PC will be as workstation - I'm an engineering student focusing on numerics, i.e. stuff like Matlab, Ansys or CAD systems are running on my PC. Since I switched over to Linux some time ago I would very much like to be able to run exclusive Windows applications in Virtualbox or VMware. Wine will only go so far, and rebooting every time is the biggest possible pain in the ass. For this reason I would appreciate the processor and motherboard to support virtualization features like VT-x or VT-d. I have gamed rather rarely in the past years, but the new PC should certainly be able to serve as a gaming rig - going to get myself a beamer or the Oculus Rift in 2014 as well as maybe a steam controller, so that should be quite fun. When it comes to the graphics card as Linux user I will stick with Nvidia - also I'm considering getting a little bit into CUDA programming. Since I also share a rather tiny room with my PC, I would also very much want it to be as quiet as possible.

 

Requirements:

• Silent
• Sufficient CPU performance for usage as workstation
• Capable of running Windows fluently in virtualization
• Capable of running current games like BF4 on ultra settings
• Energy efficiency (that machine runs a LOT)
• Future-proof - I don't upgrade my rig that often.
• Budget: somewhere around 1500€ (Germany, unfortunately more expensive than USA  <_< )

 

This is what I have come up with so far:

 

Components:

• CPU: Xeon E3-1230V3 (203,38€)
• GPU: Geforce GTX 770 (ca. 285€)
• RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 2133MHZ (165€)
• Mainboard: GA-H87-D3H (90€)
• SSD: Samsung EVO 840 Basic (250GB) (150€)
• Optical Drive: LG BH16NS40 (68€)
• CPU Cooler: Be Quiet Dark Rock 2 (52€)
• PSU: Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 550 OR Seasonic X-560 (120€)
• Case: Fractal Define R4 Black (86€)
• Audio Card: Xonar Essence STX (150€)
• Fans: Be Quiet 120mm SilentWing (PWM) (20€)

==========

ca. 1365 - 1415€

 

Would have very much liked to put a hexacore in there. But that stuffs still pretty expensive And I don't feel like waiting for another 1-2 years. Or would anyone advise me to cut back on costs of other components and go for the Core i7-4930K? Could reuse my current 120GB Samsung 840 SSD (initially intended as Windows HDD for gaming), get rid of the sound card, downgrade to GTX 760 / GTX 660. However, i7-4930K will also require a more expensive motherboard, draw more power, run hotter, is still Ivy Bridge generation...  Performance bottle neck will probably the virtualization. If that runs smoothly on the E3-1230V3 I will most likely be quite happy with that one. No need for an overkill. Which processor would you chose? I am also open for the suggestion of a good looking silent mini-ITX case together with a suitable motherboard - should have VT-d. The same goes for alternative, silent cases in general. RAM was chosen also rather arbitrarily, if there is a better option.

 

So, now ... brace yourself...follows a rather long list of more specific questions:

 

 

Questions:

1. Which Graphics Card should I get? I would not be willing to pay more than 300€ for the 2GB version. What brings up the question: is 4GB worth the additional cost? Maybe use the GTX 760 4GB version? At least for BF4 I've heard that memory will actually be one of the limiting factors. And: should I use the reference design or an aftermarket cooling solution? I'm quite a fan of the monolithic reference design regarding optics as well as the fact that the hot air goes out at the back instead of entering the case. A tiny bit less performance also wouldn't trouble me greatly - but a significant higher noise level would be a solid reason to switch to a aftermarket design. Otherwise I have taken a closer look at the Gainward Geforce GTX 770 Phantom 2048MB. Geforce and EVGA are also companies that I would consider. 
2. Would it be advisable to go for the possibility of an SLI upgrade later on? I would have to invest in a more expensive motherboard and also a bigger PSU somewhere around 750W - which would probably not run very efficient with only 50-60W power consumption in idle. However, dual GTX 770 is quite a beast in performance (would also allow for upgrade to WQHD monitor sometime in the future) and buying some additional GTX 770 in 1 - 2 years should not be that expensive. On the other hand I've come to understand that future CPU generations from Intel will not be compatible with the current 1150 socket anyway and with with mainstream hexacores from Intel as well as DDR4 around the corner an only incremental system update is probably not that likely. So it might be wiser to save the bucks and rather get an entire new rig one year earlier. I'm always torn between buying more expensive stuff so that they will do well for quite some time and buying cheaper stuff so that I may update more frequently.
3. I am somewhat a fan of Be Quiet!, however I wondered whether a Seasonic X-560 would be the better choice due to the hybrid mode - 1 Fan less turning while idling would certainly be nice. On the other hand the Dark Power Pro 550 is supposed to be quite silent, around 12dB. Haven't seen any figures for the Seasonic so far. Or go for a cheaper PSU altogether?
4. The MoBo supposedly supports VT-d. Not 100% sure though. Any confirmation?
5. Not quite sure whether I should really go with the Define R4. It's a very nice case - I just dont like the plastic front. I have a case from the Define series in usage as storage server and it really spoils the case a bit, in my opinion. Any alternative recommendations which are also optimized for silence? Also would have liked the idea of some small mini-ITX case. But I am somewhat stigmatized after having crammed the components of my current PC in a tiny case, where I couldn't even switch a harddrive without dismounting the CPU cooler. Without a CPU cutout. -.- 
6. Probably wouldn't make any sense to use an aftermarket CPU water cooler with a a puny TPD of 80? They also add pump noises and an additional possible source of failure. Single raditators also supposedly are not even better than a decent air cooler. I however don't like the colossal big tower coolers that are typically used since they completely obstruct access to the motherboard and just take up tremendously much volume within the case - especially for smaller cases. For the Define R4 it would not be that big a deal. Would you contemplate water cooling in my case or might it be the best idea to use a low profile air cooler? Should be sufficient for this specific CPU. 
7. The Xonar Essence STX is meant as replacement for my current external Dr. Dac Nano that feeds into my amp. I would very much prefer to get myself a external DAC. I have however not found any external solution which provides Dolby Headphone, decent digital to analogue conversion as well as a very formidable headphone amp, as does the Xonar Essence STX. Xonar Essence One is very nice, however its vastly more expensive and still would require an additional sound card in order for Dolby Headphone to work.
8. Should I replace the stock fans in the case? At least for Fractal Design their supposed to be rather decent. Which fan config would be the best? Positive pressure, negative pressure? Which positions should I mount additional fans? Since I would not like to take off the "moduvent" covers I figured just to install an additional intake fan in the front and use a positive pressure config. Then of course there is the question whether the fan speed should be controlled by the Motherboard, the built in 5V-7V-12V controller of the case, or to buy a fan controller. The PSU (at least Dark Power Pro) also provided the possibility to control the fan speed, although I'm not really sure how - maybe depending upon how much power the system is consuming.
9. There are people buying dedicated LAN cards. Does that make any sense if you have an Intel onboard LAN controller anyway?

 

So... guess thats all, for the time being

As I already said, I would appreciate all advise and input.

 

Best regards and thanks in advance

holp

 

Edit:

 

Second Option:

CPU: i7-4930K (485€)

Mainboard: GIGABYTE X79-UD3 (160€)

RAM: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 2133MHZ (165€)

GPU: Geforce GTX 770 (ca. 285€)

Optical Drive: LG BH16NS40 (68€)

CPU Cooler: H100i (92€)

PSU: Seasonic X-650 (121€) || Seasonic X-850 (169€) for SLI upgradeability

Case: Fractal Define R4 Black (86€)

Fans: Be Quiet 120mm SilentWing (PWM) (20€) x3

==========

1570€

 

Quite unsure about the Mainboard though. If I have an unlocked processor lying around I would probably want something that is idiot-proof to overclock.

[A10-FTW]

drop that 770 and add a 780 friend (for your needs, the GK110-300-A1 is the perfect card) 

 

 

 

(you can cut money from the others parts if you need, but the gpu is the most important part)

[holp]

The order of "workstation" and "gaming rig" in the title has it's reason. For scientific applications and virtualization usually CPU and RAM will be the bottleneck. I certainly don't assume to require 16gb of RAM or - should I pursue that build - a sixcore CPU for the occasional gaming session. Gaming is only a secondary usage, and a GTX 770 will be more than sufficient to play current games on Ultra Settings with a pretty acceptable framerate. This would even apply to the GTX 760 - which was also my initial choice, before the recent price drops from Nvidia. Moreover, for the cost of a GTX 780 you can almost afford a dual SLI GTX 770 setup.

[WoodenMarker]

1. There's no point in getting the 4GB model if you're not going to sli. 2GB vram is plenty for 1080p. An aftermarket fan will be significantly quieter and cool better than the reference cooler.

2. It's better to run a single card than sli. Also, many people who say they'll sli, don't.

3. Between the Be Quiet or Seasonic, I'd go seasonic. The fan would be off the majority of the time. You could definitely go cheaper though.

4. If the motherboard says it supports it, then it does.

5. There is the Define Mini which is a micro atx version of the normal Define R4,

6. I wouldn't go water cooling. A quiet after market cooler is all you really need. 

8. The stock fans in the case are fine. No need to change anything. It's best to control the fan speed through the motherboard. 

9. No sense in getting a dedicated lan card if all you need is a simple network connection.

 

Where are you shopping?

About your build so far-- are you sure you need an optical drive?

 

Btw, you need to quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them.

[A10-FTW]

The order of "workstation" and "gaming rig" in the title has it's reason. For scientific applications and virtualization usually CPU and RAM will be the bottleneck. I certainly don't assume to require 16gb of RAM or - should I persue that build - a sixcore CPU for the occasional gaming session. Gaming is only a secondary usage, and a GTX 770 will be more than sufficient to play current games on Ultra Settings with a pretty acceptable framerate. This would even apply to the GTX 760 - which was also my initial choice, before the recent price drops from Nvidia.

true, still keep in mind the advantages of a 780 over a 770

 

+1 for the extra 1GB ram

+1 for be a single card

+1 for be initially based on a "workstation" card instead be just another "gaming" card

+1 for be a 384 bits card

 

-1 to be expensive

 

but yea, in the end a 770 will be fine

[holp]

1. There's no point in getting the 4GB model ...

 

Since I have no idea how to tag someone, and it is 03:30 AM I'll go for the quotation.

 

1. Alright. Then the question reduces to which aftermarket card I should get.

2. I am aware of the fact that SLI is not the best solution. But in terms of being able to upgrade it is probably cheaper to buy an additional GTX 770 in 2 years for 150-200€ than to toss the old one in the trash and to go for a new single high end card for > 300€. But I tend to agree with you, in the end it might not be worth all the drawbacks that come with it. It would be a bit more interesting if I get myself the 2011 socket, where SLI and 2x16 PCIe are included by default. 

3. I am certainly open for suggestions. I considered the entry line of Be Quiet!, however they are approx 12-14dB louder and less power efficient.

4. Unfortunately that was the claim of some user, and not the offical tech spec.

5. I know. Maybe really not the worst idea to go for that one, if I toss away the idea of SLI.

6. For the E3-1230V3 I would agree. What would you chose in case that I scrap together a bit more money for the CPU and buy the 4930k?

9. Well there are people who get them because they expect better performance in games. But I'd be surprised if that really makes any noticeable difference.

 

If I can order something at Amazon at a reasonable price, thats usually my first choice. But otherwise I will seek out the cheapest vendors, unless its not worth the extra shipping cost or the price difference is rather minimal. I believe Mindfactory and hardwareversand.de were two of the German vendors who had good prices for many components. Optical Drive... well I'd simply like to be able to burn BlueRays. Other than that I don't really have any usage for it, no.

 

@7850OC: Yes, of course you're right. I certainly will not argue that the GTX 780 is the better card. There is a noticeable performance increase over the GTX 770. The +1GB and 384 bit interface are especially interesting if you're gaming at higher resolutions, according to my understanding. For my personally I just don't think that the extra money is worth it. I'll rather spent that on a faster CPU or a decent soundcard.

[WoodenMarker]

1. Alright. Then the question reduces to which aftermarket card I should get.

2. I am aware of the fact that SLI is not the best solution. But in terms of being able to upgrade it is probably cheaper to buy an additional GTX 770 in 2 years for 150-200€ than to toss the old one in the trash and to go for a new single high end card for > 300€. But I tend to agree with you, in the end it might not be worth all the drawbacks that come with it. It would be a bit more interesting if I get myself the 2011 socket, where SLI and 2x16 PCIe are included by default. 

3. I am certainly open for suggestions. I considered the entry line of Be Quiet!, however they are approx 12-14dB louder and less power efficient.

4. Unfortunately that was the claim of some user, and not the offical tech spec.

5. I know. Maybe really not the worst idea to go for that one, if I toss away the idea of SLI.

6. For the E3-1230V3 I would agree. What would you chose in case that I scrap together a bit more money for the CPU and buy the 4930k?

9. Well there are people who get them because they expect better performance in games. But I'd be surprised if that really makes any noticeable difference.

 

If I can order something at Amazon at a reasonable price, thats usually my first choice. But otherwise I will seek out the cheapest vendors, unless its not worth the extra shipping cost or the price difference is rather minimal. I believe Mindfactory and hardwareversand.de were two of the German vendors who had good prices for many components. Optical Drive... well I'd simply like to be able to burn BlueRays. Other than that I don't really have any usage for it, no.

1. The cheapest one with a dual/triple cooler. They're all similar to the point where it's not really worth paying more for one over another. The twin frozr, windforce, and DCUII are especially quiet compared to the rest.

2. By the time you'd want to upgrade, I'm pretty sure there'd be a cheaper, more power single card solution that's more adapted to what you'll be doing by then. 

4. I'm pretty sure the virtualization is reliant by the cpu and not the motherboard.

5. You can sli on matx. 

6. I'm not sure. I think it'd depend on how much power you actually need. As far as I know, AMD doesn't lock any virtualization features. 

9. It's mostly reserved for hosting servers and such--less so for gaming.

 

Any specific places you can link?

[holp]

@WoodenMarker:

 

1.  Alright. I prefer the Gainward Phantom so far, because it can be easily cleaned and is rather cheap. But I'll take a look at your recommendations for sure.

4. VT-d is to my understanding the capability to directly pass through devices to the host system. In contrast to VT-x i blieve it has to be supported by the motherboard as well.

5. Yeah, but it will get a little bit crowded if you also have a sound card and maybe another PCIe in there.

6. Virtualization features are not locked both for the E3-1230V3 and the 4930k. It is however for the non-enthusiast unlocked CPUs. AMD does not do that, yes. Also the AMD Octacore is recommended for virtualization because for this specific application actual real cores are superior to hyper threading. However, that thing draws an awful lot of power and is quite slow for single thread performance according to my understanding. I guess I am guilty of being an Intel "fanboy" to some extent. Maybe I should not completely ignore that option.

 

Well I guess the real question will then probably be whether I stick with the E3-1230V3 or spend some additional money on a 4930k, get myself a decent cooling solution and do some moderate overclocking. Unfortunately you can't just try out the performance of a CPU and see whether it is sufficient for your requirements...

 

Vendors would be e.g, Amazon, Mindfactory, Hardwareversand

See for instance:

Xeon E3-1230V3

i7-4930K

Corsair Vengeance DD3-2133

be quiet! Dark Rock 2

[WoodenMarker]

1.  Alright. I prefer the Gainward Phantom so far, because it can be easily cleaned and is rather cheap. But I'll take a look at your recommendations for sure.

4. VT-d is to my understanding the capability to directly pass through devices to the host system. In contrast to VT-x i blieve it has to be supported by the motherboard as well.

5. Yeah, but it will get a little bit crowded if you also have a sound card and maybe another PCIe in there.

6. Virtualization features are not locked both for the E3-1230V3 and the 4930k. It is however for the non-enthusiast unlocked CPUs. AMD does not do that, yes. Also the AMD Octacore is recommended for virtualization because for this specific application actual real cores are superior to hyper threading. However, that thing draws an awful lot of power and is quite slow for single thread performance according to my understanding. I guess I am guilty of being an Intel "fanboy" to some extent. Maybe I should not completely ignore that option.

 

Well I guess the real question will then probably be whether I stick with the E3-1230V3 or spend some additional money on a 4930k, get myself a decent cooling solution and do some moderate overclocking. Unfortunately you can't just try out the performance of a CPU and see whether it is sufficient for your requirements...

5. It's not as crowded as you might think. The slots are meant to be used.

6. AMD may draw more power but it's quite a bit cheaper than the Intel option with similar performance. Sure it has slower single threads but it's faster than the xeon with all of the threads being utilized. 

The 4930k is quite a bit more expensive and I'd only recommend it if you made money depending on how quickly or efficiently you worked.

[holp]

5. It's not as crowded as you might think. The slots are meant to be used.

6. AMD may draw more power but it's quite a bit cheaper than the Intel option with similar performance. Sure it has slower single threads but it's faster than the xeon with all of the threads being utilized. 

The 4930k is quite a bit more expensive and I'd only recommend it if you made money depending on how quickly or efficiently you worked.

 

After due consideration: i'll stick with the E3-1230V3. Should be plenty fast for my requirements, especially with 16 gigs of RAM. Maybe I'll keep my old PC as dedicated Windows PC for the time being. Also decided to stick with my old 120GB Samsung SSD. Saves me another 150€. Will also go for a mini ITX case - don't expect to need too many expansion slots.

 

Currently still contemplating:

• Whether I really should invest > 50€ in a CPU cooler (Dark Rock 2) with the E3-1230V3 having a TDP of merely 80W. 
• If I should go cheaper with the PSU. However, the PC is running 10h/day 365 days a year. Approx 500W should be sufficient for that build, even with possibly some additional RAM sticks and hard drives? some PSU calculator advised 630W power supply for E3-1230V3 & GTZ 770... seems a bit overkill
• What to do about audio. Obviously Linux drivers don't support Dolby Headphone anyway, as I just found out -.- Thought about getting a Xonar DG, at least I would have Dolby Headphone for gaming sessions under Windows.. and could later on use the spdif out if I should decide to get a fancier DAC. Probably should head over to the audio section and ask there.
• Case: more practical & quieter Define R4 mini vs Prodigy / Phenom smaller, less boring. Should I expect a noticeable benefit from the sound dampening and more solid build quality of the define mini regarding silence? 

Also H87 doesn't seem to support RAM faster than 1600MHZ. Thats a little bit disappointing. Especially since I could get 16GB DDR3-2133 for almost the same price als DDR3-1600.

[WoodenMarker]

After due consideration: i'll stick with the E3-1230V3. Should be plenty fast for my requirements, especially with 16 gigs of RAM. Maybe I'll keep my old PC as dedicated Windows PC for the time being. Also decided to stick with my old 120GB Samsung SSD. Saves me another 150€. Will also go for a mini ITX case - don't expect to need too many expansion slots.

 

Currently still contemplating:

• Whether I really should invest > 50€ in a CPU cooler (Dark Rock 2) with the E3-1230V3 having a TDP of merely 80W. 
• If I should go cheaper with the PSU. However, the PC is running 10h/day 365 days a year. Approx 500W should be sufficient for that build, even with possibly some additional RAM sticks and hard drives? some PSU calculator advised 630W power supply for E3-1230V3 & GTZ 770... seems a bit overkill
• What to do about audio. Obviously Linux drivers don't support Dolby Headphone anyway, as I just found out -.- Thought about getting a Xonar DG, at least I would have Dolby Headphone for gaming sessions under Windows.. and could later on use the spdif out if I should decide to get a fancier DAC. Probably should head over to the audio section and ask there.
• Case: more practical & quieter Define R4 mini vs Prodigy / Phenom smaller, less boring. Should I expect a noticeable benefit from the sound dampening and more solid build quality of the define mini regarding silence? 

Also H87 doesn't seem to support RAM faster than 1600MHZ. Thats a little bit disappointing. Especially since I could get 16GB DDR3-2133 for almost the same price als DDR3-1600.

No need for an aftermarket cooler. The xeon works fine with stock.

A decent 550w will be more than enough. Psu calculators are for the most part quite inaccurate.

Heading over the to Audio section is probably your best bet.

The 2133 ram you found is CL11. That's cas latency or lag. You want lower CL over high speed. CL9 is recommended. Lower is even better. 

My recommendations: http://de.pcpartpicker.com/p/1XUn7

[holp]

@WoodenMarker: Thanks for all your effort - it's very much appreciated. A new PC is a rather big investment, so it's nice to have some advise.

 

I however have to disagree rather strongly with your choice of the mainboard, since it's quite stripped down compared to the H87 chipset (my favorite so far: GA-H87M-D3H). Also doesn't include VT-d and is only marginally cheaper.

 

133€ for the RAM is qute a decent price. I'll probably stick with that. The GTX 770 from Asus already starts already at 285€, however there are even cheaper cards starting at 260€. SSD I will keep, as I said,  my ~ 1 year old Samsung SSD. For Home / Data I had the intention of getting a 7200RPM 2.TB drive for quicker read / write speed and response time. For storage purposes I have my NAS with WD Greens. Should look up though whether there's really a significant performance difference.

It's probably not a bad idea to stick with the boxed cooler, at least for the time being. If it gets too hot under load - can still buy one.

[WoodenMarker]

@WoodenMarker: Thanks for all your effort - it's very much appreciated. A new PC is a rather big investment, so it's nice to have some advise.

 

I however have to disagree rather strongly with your choice of the mainboard, since it's quite stripped down compared to the H87 chipset (my favorite so far: GA-H87M-D3H). Also doesn't include VT-d and is only marginally cheaper.

 

133€ for the RAM is qute a decent price. I'll probably stick with that. The GTX 770 from Asus already starts already at 285€, however there are even cheaper cards starting at 260€. SSD I will keep, as I said,  my ~ 1 year old Samsung SSD. For Home / Data I had the intention of getting a 7200RPM 2.TB drive for quicker read / write speed and response time. For storage purposes I have my NAS with WD Greens. Should look up though whether there's really a significant performance difference.

It's probably not a bad idea to stick with the boxed cooler, at least for the time being. If it gets too hot under load - can still buy one.

Then go ahead and get the H87 mobo. I forgot about the VT-d. 

There's a decent performance difference. You said you wanted a quiet system so I chose a green. If absolute quiet isn't your aim, go ahead and get a Seagate barracuda. They aren't that noisy anyway.