Looking for a Camera, Details Inside!

[Energycore]

Hi LTT!

 

I usually post a lot about PSUs and whatnot, but today I come asking for a recommendation for a camera specifically for bird photography.

 

I have tried out models that my friends have like the Nikon P600 and found them really comfortable and easy to use, with the exception that they have dreadful autofocus for stuff like shooting birds at flight, and I have so decided that I want a camera with the following features:

 

Price: Up to $200. Can go up to $250 but only if I'll be getting a significantly better experience out of it.

Zoom at least of 30x. It's for pinpoint shooting of small stuff that's far away, so this is non negotiable.

Versatile enough: I would like to at least be able to shoot some landscapes and some portrait photos even if they don't look the best.

Adjustable parameters like ISO, shutter speed and etc. I haven't seen a camera around this price that doesn't allow for control of these, but just in case I add it here.

Manual focus dial. Preferably a mechanical dial and not a couple buttons, because I'm too used to turning a dial while using binoculars, and autofocus will just not do for what I want.

A viewport, or whatever it's called, because using the camera screen to point at small things really far away is not very easy, but the viewport makes it trivial.

 

I know a couple of you guys really care about good photography, do you guys think I can get all I ask for with just $250? If not, what would be the entry price?

 

PS: I will be buying from Mexico, but most items that are listed on Amazon US, I can get here, so preferably one I can buy from there. Also I'm planning to buy soon-ish, it depends on whether there's a good sale on Black Friday.

[johnny5c]

I've been looking for something in the same price range for my son and the Canon SX410 has a lot of good reviews.

[SeanAngelo]

26 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Hi LTT!

 

I usually post a lot about PSUs and whatnot, but today I come asking for a recommendation for a camera specifically for bird photography.

 

I have tried out models that my friends have like the Nikon P600 and found them really comfortable and easy to use, with the exception that they have dreadful autofocus for stuff like shooting birds at flight, and I have so decided that I want a camera with the following features:

 

Price: Up to $200. Can go up to $250 but only if I'll be getting a significantly better experience out of it.

Zoom at least of 30x. It's for pinpoint shooting of small stuff that's far away, so this is non negotiable.

Versatile enough: I would like to at least be able to shoot some landscapes and some portrait photos even if they don't look the best.

Adjustable parameters like ISO, shutter speed and etc. I haven't seen a camera around this price that doesn't allow for control of these, but just in case I add it here.

Manual focus dial. Preferably a mechanical dial and not a couple buttons, because I'm too used to turning a dial while using binoculars, and autofocus will just not do for what I want.

A viewport, or whatever it's called, because using the camera screen to point at small things really far away is not very easy, but the viewport makes it trivial.

 

I know a couple of you guys really care about good photography, do you guys think I can get all I ask for with just $250? If not, what would be the entry price?

 

PS: I will be buying from Mexico, but most items that are listed on Amazon US, I can get here, so preferably one I can buy from there. Also I'm planning to buy soon-ish, it depends on whether there's a good sale on Black Friday.

you wont get what you want in $250.... you can look around for used dslr's though.

[Energycore]

Just now, SeanAngelo said:

you wont get what you want in $250.... you can look around for used dslr's though.

So a couple questions then.

 

What can I get for $250? I can sacrifice some things like not being able to shoot landscapes, or the viewport I guess.

 

And also, how much do I have to dish out for the features I want?

[xQubeZx]

Tbh I doubt you will find anything with that for 250. Or I can almost garantue you wont find anything for that price. Maybe if you do find an amazing deal on a used dslr with a good telephoto lens. 

 

A good start is probably a entry level dslr with a decent telephotolens. For example a D3300 and a decent telephoto (don't know what is good value one on the nikon side since I havent done too much reaserch on them) 

 

While the ideal system would be something like a Nikon D500 or a Canon 7D Mark ii with either the Nikon or Canon 70-200 f/2.8 and a teleconverter. 

[SeanAngelo]

2 minutes ago, Energycore said:

So a couple questions then.

 

What can I get for $250? I can sacrifice some things like not being able to shoot landscapes, or the viewport I guess.

 

And also, how much do I have to dish out for the features I want?

well, you can get bridge cameras for that much... and they're not that great.

 

if you want the decent, then save a little more to around $550-$700 and you'll get a fairly good dslr and lens for that price.

[AkiraDaarkst]

49 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Hi LTT!

 

I usually post a lot about PSUs and whatnot, but today I come asking for a recommendation for a camera specifically for bird photography.

 

I have tried out models that my friends have like the Nikon P600 and found them really comfortable and easy to use, with the exception that they have dreadful autofocus for stuff like shooting birds at flight, and I have so decided that I want a camera with the following features:

 

Price: Up to $200. Can go up to $250 but only if I'll be getting a significantly better experience out of it.

Zoom at least of 30x. It's for pinpoint shooting of small stuff that's far away, so this is non negotiable.

Versatile enough: I would like to at least be able to shoot some landscapes and some portrait photos even if they don't look the best.

Adjustable parameters like ISO, shutter speed and etc. I haven't seen a camera around this price that doesn't allow for control of these, but just in case I add it here.

Manual focus dial. Preferably a mechanical dial and not a couple buttons, because I'm too used to turning a dial while using binoculars, and autofocus will just not do for what I want.

A viewport, or whatever it's called, because using the camera screen to point at small things really far away is not very easy, but the viewport makes it trivial.

 

I know a couple of you guys really care about good photography, do you guys think I can get all I ask for with just $250? If not, what would be the entry price?

 

PS: I will be buying from Mexico, but most items that are listed on Amazon US, I can get here, so preferably one I can buy from there. Also I'm planning to buy soon-ish, it depends on whether there's a good sale on Black Friday.

Haven't there been a similar post like this before?

 

For $250, the best you can do will be a cheap super zoom.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1025589-REG/sony_dsch300_b_dsc_h300_digital_camera_black.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1116098-REG/canon_0107c001_powershot_sx410_is_digital.html

 

Anything else will cost more, a LOT more.  You also need to learn a bit more about camera technology.  Achieving 30x or greater zoom would require a very very large lens on a larger sensor camera, on tiny 1/2.3" sensors that super zoom compacts have is possible but on DSLRs forget it.

 

Taking photos of birds in flight is possible with even an entry level DSLR and a relatively cheap zoom or telephoto'ish lens.  But it will still cost you well over $250.

[Energycore]

3 minutes ago, SeanAngelo said:

well, you can get bridge cameras for that much... and they're not that great.

 

if you want the decent, then save a little more to around $550-$700 and you'll get a fairly good dslr and lens for that price.

I've heard that bridge cameras don't have great image quality, but tbh I'm just looking for an image that will let me study the bird's physical features for identification, with image quality being secondary. That still fine?

 

Keep in mind this will be my first and I really don't want to spend that much on a camera that I am likely to not use to its fullest.

7 minutes ago, xQubeZx said:

Tbh I doubt you will find anything with that for 250. Or I can almost garantue you wont find anything for that price. Maybe if you do find an amazing deal on a used dslr with a good telephoto lens. 

 

A good start is probably a entry level dslr with a decent telephotolens. For example a D3300 and a decent telephoto (don't know what is good value one on the nikon side since I havent done too much reaserch on them) 

 

While the ideal system would be something like a Nikon D500 or a Canon 7D Mark ii with either the Nikon or Canon 70-200 f/2.8 and a teleconverter. 

I'll look into these, thanks

 

1 minute ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Haven't there been a similar post like this before?

 

For $250, the best you can do will be a cheap super zoom.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1025589-REG/sony_dsch300_b_dsc_h300_digital_camera_black.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1116098-REG/canon_0107c001_powershot_sx410_is_digital.html

 

Anything else will cost more, a LOT more.  You also need to learn a bit more about camera technology.  Achieving 30x or greater zoom would require a very very large lens on a larger sensor camera, on tiny 1/2.3" sensors that super zoom compacts have is possible but on DSLRs forget it.

Yeah these are the models I was looking into. Unfortunately no viewfinder for either, but I guess I'll have to live with that if I want manual focus.

 

I think this is enough to mark the thread as solved. I tried to get the features I wanted for my budget, but it seems I will have to make a compromise. The viewfinder is first to go I suppose.

 

Thanks to the lot of you for your help

[SeanAngelo]

9 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I've heard that bridge cameras don't have great image quality, but tbh I'm just looking for an image that will let me study the bird's physical features for identification, with image quality being secondary. That still fine?

its true, they dont compared to dslrs anyway.... you'll get better quality with a detachable lens on a dslr compared to the ones fixed on bridge cameras.

[Energycore]

Just now, SeanAngelo said:

its true, they dont compared to dslrs anyway.... you'll get better quality with a detachable lens on a dslr compared to the ones fixed on bridge cameras.

I know there isn't a way to measure image quality, but since DSLRs are so much more, I have my doubts that they will have five times better image quality. But maybe once I get serious about using my photos for productivity I'll get one coupled with one of those huge 600mm lenses

[AkiraDaarkst]

5 hours ago, Energycore said:

I know there isn't a way to measure image quality, but since DSLRs are so much more, I have my doubts that they will have five times better image quality. But maybe once I get serious about using my photos for productivity I'll get one coupled with one of those huge 600mm lenses

Many compact cameras (even with their tiny sensors) are capable of capturing a good an image as their larger sensor relatives... if the conditions are right.  Where smaller sensor compact cameras fail completely are in conditions that they are not really designed or suited to handle.  Don't expect high ISO and Noise performance of tiny sensor compacts to be the same as larger sensor DSLRs of the same (generation/year of release), or the integrated lenses with their tiny apertures to capture the same amount of light as the larger lenses with wider aperture diameters used on the larger sensor cameras.  There's no way to break the laws of physics.

 

But if you go out in nice daylight, shoot a subject that's well light, with the proper exposure setting even a compact camera will be able to capture a fine image.

[Energycore]

On 11/2/2016 at 6:35 PM, AkiraDaarkst said:

Many compact cameras (even with their tiny sensors) are capable of capturing a good an image as their larger sensor relatives... if the conditions are right.  Where smaller sensor compact cameras fail completely are in conditions that they are not really designed or suited to handle.  Don't expect high ISO and Noise performance of tiny sensor compacts to be the same as larger sensor DSLRs of the same (generation/year of release), or the integrated lenses with their tiny apertures to capture the same amount of light as the larger lenses with wider aperture diameters used on the larger sensor cameras.  There's no way to break the laws of physics.

 

But if you go out in nice daylight, shoot a subject that's well light, with the proper exposure setting even a compact camera will be able to capture a fine image.

Ah thanks.

 

Unfortunately I looked at the canon models in a store and they don't seem to have manual focus, so that's a bummer.

 

I did find a pretty alright deal on a Canon T6 for $300. Maybe that's what I have to get, and couple it with a 400mm or so lens. I'd rather not, because it's bulky, but if that's the price I gotta pay for manual focus, at least I'm getting a bunch other features with it.

 

What would you say about the T6?

[AkiraDaarkst]

18 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Ah thanks.

 

Unfortunately I looked at the canon models in a store and they don't seem to have manual focus, so that's a bummer.

 

I did find a pretty alright deal on a Canon T6 for $300. Maybe that's what I have to get, and couple it with a 400mm or so lens. I'd rather not, because it's bulky, but if that's the price I gotta pay for manual focus, at least I'm getting a bunch other features with it.

 

What would you say about the T6?

The Canon T6 should be a good camera.  Not really sure what you want in a camera besides being able to take photos of birds so can't tell you what other cameras might be good.  Check out prices on 400mm lenses (or any lenses that also covers such a focal length).  You'll find some cheap lenses with a long reach, you may not even need an actual 400mm lens with the cropped sensor of the T6.

 

A majority of compacts and cameras with integrated lenses, especially superzooms, do not have manual focusing.  Advanced compact cameras like my Canon S95 or Canon G16 has a ring around the lens that can be set to zoom, focus, etc. inside the menu.  Many compacts don't have such a ring.  For capturing photos of birds, I'd be reluctant to use manual focus.  I have a Nikon 400mm 2.8 and I prefer using AF and selective AF points for wildlife.

 

The only lenses I use pure MF are my tilt-shift lenses and cine glass, because none of them have AF motors.

[Energycore]

1 minute ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

The Canon T6 should be a good camera.  Not really sure what you want in a camera besides being able to take photos of birds so can't tell you what other cameras might be good.  Check out prices on 400mm lenses (or any lenses that also covers such a focal length).  You'll find some cheap lenses with a long reach, you may not even need an actual 400mm lens with the cropped sensor of the T6.

 

A majority of compacts and cameras with integrated lenses, especially superzooms, do not have manual focusing.  Advanced compact cameras like my Canon S95 or Canon G16 has a ring around the lens that can be set to zoom, focus, etc. inside the menu.  Many compacts don't have such a ring.  For capturing photos of birds, I'd be reluctant to use manual focus.  I have a Nikon 400mm 2.8 and I prefer using AF and selective AF points.

Other uses would be shooting people while they look at birds And also portraits of the whole group, and if possible closeups of nature and such.

 

Why do you advise against using manual focus? I like AF for birds that are still in their perch, but found it impossible to focus on birds in flight. On the other hand, I can easily follow and focus a flying bird using my binoculars. So I actually kind of need both, unless I can develop the skill to shoot those flyers with AF.

 

In which case, I'll just grab the best value superzoom.

[AkiraDaarkst]

8 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Other uses would be shooting people while they look at birds And also portraits of the whole group, and if possible closeups of nature and such.

 

Why do you advise against using manual focus? I like AF for birds that are still in their perch, but found it impossible to focus on birds in flight. On the other hand, I can easily follow and focus a flying bird using my binoculars. So I actually kind of need both, unless I can develop the skill to shoot those flyers with AF.

 

In which case, I'll just grab the best value superzoom.

I advised against MF only in a general sense.  If you are trying to take a photo of a bird flying, AF can help you get the shot faster than MF.  But a bird that is stationary, you can probably achieve the shot with MF too.  But AF systems on modern digital cameras are pretty good, and the viewfinders in modern digital cameras lack the focusing screens of older film cameras.

 

For portraits, you very likely need a lens that is wider than a 400mm lens, obviously.  A Canon 18-300mm lens with a T6 could be a kit you can use.  It all depends on the quality you want, the amount you're willing to invest, whether you are doing photography as a hobby, etc.

[Energycore]

2 hours ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

I advised against MF only in a general sense.  If you are trying to take a photo of a bird flying, AF can help you get the shot faster than MF.  But a bird that is stationary, you can probably achieve the shot with MF too.  But AF systems on modern digital cameras are pretty good, and the viewfinders in modern digital cameras lack the focusing screens of older film cameras.

 

For portraits, you very likely need a lens that is wider than a 400mm lens, obviously.  A Canon 18-300mm lens with a T6 could be a kit you can use.  It all depends on the quality you want, the amount you're willing to invest, whether you are doing photography as a hobby, etc.

The idea of 18-300mm on a T6 seems kind of appealing, right now this is a hobby but I can see myself birdwatching for money (monitoring the behaviour of birds can give clues to the conservation status of a national park and such).

 

How much would I have to pay for a T6 + 18-300mm lens?

 

Also, since I'm quite a noob, is the Lynda.com course about photography a good one? I'd like to learn through the internet if possible, if not I have friends that can get me started.

 

Thanks for your advice though, you're making a really confusing choice easier to stomach

[AkiraDaarkst]

23 minutes ago, Energycore said:

The idea of 18-300mm on a T6 seems kind of appealing, right now this is a hobby but I can see myself birdwatching for money (monitoring the behaviour of birds can give clues to the conservation status of a national park and such).

 

How much would I have to pay for a T6 + 18-300mm lens?

 

Also, since I'm quite a noob, is the Lynda.com course about photography a good one? I'd like to learn through the internet if possible, if not I have friends that can get me started.

 

Thanks for your advice though, you're making a really confusing choice easier to stomach

Birdwatching and monitoring doesn't need expensive high end gear, you can do this with the T6 and a nice lens easily.  I know a few people who do this even with superzoom cameras.

 

I don't think you can buy a pre made T6 + 18-300 kit, so you'll have to buy the body and lens separately.  Or you can buy a kit like this which includes the 18-55 and 75-300 lens.  Since you are in Mexico, see if they sell a similar kit wherever you plan to buy it from.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1238275-REG/canon_1159c008_eos_rebel_t6_dslr.html

 

I haven't used Lynda for anything, but I'm sure their courses are pretty good.  However you don't have to subscribe to Lynda to learn photography.  A lot of resources are available for free on the internet and the camera will come with one of the most important resources you'll need, or download it for free.  The manual.  This booklet will explain what each button and dial on the camera does.  Without knowing this you can't progress to the next step which is learning how Aperture & F-stop, Shutter Speed, ISO & Noise, Focal Length relate to each other and how they each affect the image.
 

Exposure triangle, this video is a multi part series, you'll find the other parts under the Up Next section when you watch on Youtube:

 

Scott Kelby talks about composition

 

Depth of field

 

These videos should get you started out very quickly, and I recommend watching them when you have the camera in hand.  Knowing how to set and adjust shutter speed + aperture (f-stop) + ISO to get the exposure needed is the main technical thing you need to learn in operating a camera (besides knowing what buttons do what and how to use it of course).  After that, you have to experiment with composition and seeing how creative you can get.  No one can really teach you composition, they can only provide guidelines.  It's up to you to figure out how you want to compose a photo so that what the camera captured is something that you can be proud of sharing with your family, friends, the world.

 

Here's a quote by one of my favorite photographers.