College

[Zymith]

Hello, i got a quick question for all who would like to help or have past experiences. So anyways, now is the time that i would start looking into college and start taking tours and such but i dont know what i should major and minor in. Maybe you guys can help! So heres what im shooting for after college... I plan to be a network manager or something along the lines. I just dont know what i should major in. Please help me decide or maybe even add some advise and recommended colleges, I live in PA by the way. Thanks a bunch guys!

[Lurick]

When you say network manager you're talking about computer networks I assume? Just want to make sure

[Zymith]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

When you say network manager you're talking about computer networks I assume? Just want to make sure

Yes.

[GigabitXe]

I hear that a major in computer science will get you just about anywhere in the technology world. A career specific minor might help too.

[Donut417]

13 minutes ago, Zymith said:

Hello, i got a quick question for all who would like to help or have past experiences. So anyways, now is the time that i would start looking into college and start taking tours and such but i dont know what i should major and minor in. Maybe you guys can help! So heres what im shooting for after college... I plan to be a network manager or something along the lines. I just dont know what i should major in. Please help me decide or maybe even add some advise and recommended colleges, I live in PA by the way. Thanks a bunch guys!

I think that falls under Computer information Systems. I would advise you to check out community colleges first. Only because they are cheaper. You take care of the core classes their and transfer to a 4 year school. Im a business student at Eastern Michgian University and I pay like $1200 a class. Compared to a few hundred dollars at a community college. Defiantly talk to some academic advisors and see what they say. 

 

Another good indicator is look at the job market. See what degree's and certifications companies are asking for. With networking you would most likely look in to Comp TIA Network Plus and possibly the Cisco Certs. Im going for a bachelors in business administration. Ive learned that there are certificates you can get on top of the degree that may be just as good as having a masters degree but take less classes and time. 

 

 

[Lurick]

Cool, just wanted to make sure I gave you the right advice

So you have a few different options, one will give you hands on experience and the other will teach you theory and might give you hands on depending on the program.

Option 1:

Check your local community college for something like an Associates in Network Technology. These programs are very hands on, get you down and dirty with the equipment and learn you a lot of practical knowledge and theory. Depending on the course you can come out with several certifications including your CCNA, CCNP, Network+, and a Microsoft cert or two. This will be fast paced and get you with real working knowledge that you can apply in an internship or other role and even land you a good networking job.

 

Option 2:

Go to a regular four year college and see if they have anything along the lines of electrical or computer engineer with a focus on networking. Depending on the school itself they may do lots of hands on and focus you towards a couple certifications along the way, if they have something like this my advice is to jump on it. I know a lot of people who go through school and learn about theory and never get a day on a real device and come out into the workforce knowing jack about how to actually manage a device and configure an IP address.

 

The above options are just down and dirty but probably the most prevalent. I actually went with option 1 and now I work as a Solution Validation Network Engineer at Big Networking Company. I test and try to break things for customers, validate code and solutions and implementations before customers deploy it in the field. The hands on experience is what really helped me get where I am today and really set me apart from the other people. Regardless of what you want to do specifically in the networking field, which in your case sounds more like a Network Admin role which is still really awesome, get that hands on experience.

[Talamakara]

5 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Comp TIA Network Plus and possibly the Cisco Certs.

 

 

I graduated with a B.Sc. about 10 years ago and let me put it this way. A 4 year degree is great and will get your foot in the door, of most companies. However don't waste your time or energy on Comp Tia, network+, A+ or any of the want-to-be certs that the industry does not recognize. They were so popular for a time with "schools" like ITT Tech (which is thankfully gone now) that the IT industry was literally flooded with "techs" that couldn't tell the difference between IPV4 and IPV6, one couldn't even tell us which IPV4 scheme was used in a class D network. (class D is pretty much every home router ever made so 192.168.1.) This unfortunately brought the overall amount we got paid down a lot, its come back up a bit, but nothing to a couple years ago.

Cisco CCNA (entry course) certs are worth the money however I do not recommend doing these on your own by buying the books for home study alone. There is a lot of material to cover and using the virtual servers that come with most of the packs are use full, but taking a course with an instructor for the majority of the material will give you a greater understanding in the long run and unless you are an exceptional student having the instructor and other students to bounce questions off makes the material a lot less dry. And don't kid yourself, when you are halfway through building a route between 6 servers and two switches in different parts of the country, running DOS style commands to trace out which port is closed and all you can see are the lines on the screen, you will welcome the distraction / assistance. As well most schools who do networking material will have many virtual and real servers that you can use and reset when you mess up. The Microsoft 2012 server certs are also a good bet.

 

Personally (and this is my opinion) if I could take what I know now, and go back and start over, I'd never get into the IT industry, or at least not directly into it. I'd probably go back to school, taking law and specialize in copyright or computer crime. I don't say this to discourage you but to give you fair warning, there is not a lot of money in the IT industry anymore. I work for the largest investment banking group in Canada and do make above the average, but most people won't make more than 50-60 a year and you are probably looking at 40+ to start. Even when i was with IBM they didn't pay that well. So if making good money is important to you and you want a career that is fulfilling and where you can make enough to live comfortably and not with roommates or your parents, I might suggest taking some time to find out what else pays well outside of IT that you may be interested in. 

I'll end with this. My bonus last year was $$$$ in size. The majority of the people I support had a bonus that was $$$$$$ in size. Food for thought.

[Donut417]

12 hours ago, Talamakara said:

Cisco CCNA (entry course) certs are worth the money however I do not recommend doing these on your own by buying the books for home study alone. There is a lot of material to cover and using the virtual servers that come with most of the packs are use full, but taking a course with an instructor for the majority of the material will give you a greater understanding in the long run and unless you are an exceptional student having the instructor and other students to bounce questions off makes the material a lot less dry. And don't kid yourself, when you are halfway through building a route between 6 servers and two switches in different parts of the country, running DOS style commands to trace out which port is closed and all you can see are the lines on the screen, you will welcome the distraction / assistance. As well most schools who do networking material will have many virtual and real servers that you can use and reset when you mess up. The Microsoft 2012 server certs are also a good bet.

Great post. Id have to agree, dont just think your going to buy some books and take the CCNA cert test. Henry Ford Community college had 2 courses over a 15 Week Period to teach you want you needed to know to get this cert. From the students I talked to it was a bitch to pass. I guess you had to learn Subnetting by hand as in doing the binary. If you get lucky some times an employer will help out with tuition and the cost of the certs. 

 

Id recommend some type of Cyber security degree. Thats going to be a growing job, with all the hacks and stuff going on. At a Alumni Business Conference at my college, I got to hear a speaker who works in cyber security. Verizon in the last year has gotten hacked over 1000 times. So I think that might be a better bet. Also, one thing I noticed about IT jobs is for entry level they dont want to pay you shit, but they want 5 years of experience and you to know every programming language ever in existence. 

[Talamakara]

10 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Henry Ford Community college... ...a bitch to pass... ...I guess you had to learn Subnetting by hand as in doing the binary....

 

Id recommend some type of Cyber security degree. Also, one thing I noticed about IT jobs is for entry level they dont want to pay you shit, but they want 5 years of experience and you to know every programming language ever in existence. 

 

It amazes me to this day how many people still see him as some super massive employment superhero, when he was actually a super-villain. Read up on his little private home invading goon squad.

It's a bitch to pass anywhere you go. One of the reasons Cisco is as stable as it is, is the lack of GUI interfaces, everything is still command prompt, very similar to DOS back in the day. One of the main reason's I got out of it. If nothing else the GUI gives you something to look at. (and please don't tell me they have a few screens with a GUI interface now, i am aware of this, but the majority is still command code) Yup, subneting is very interesting,  as well as turning 0s and 1s into IP addresses becomes very interesting.

 

 

As for the cyber security... i'm sorry i'd still say find a career that pays better.

 

 

 

 

[Unhelpful]

23 hours ago, Talamakara said:

that couldn't tell the difference between IPV4 and IPV6, one couldn't even tell us which IPV4 scheme was used in a class D network. (class D is pretty much every home router ever made so 192.168.1.) This unfortunately brought the overall amount we got paid down a lot, its come back up a bit, but nothing to a couple years ago.

Not to detract from your point (I agree with a fair bit of it)... But class C is 192.0.0.0-223.255.255.255.... Class D is 224.0.0.0-239.255.255.255.255. And the class system is dead anyways.

 

Additionally, I do think that self-studying for CCNA is a great idea. It's a good goal, and self-motivators can learn a ton in just their free time alone.

[BOOM BOX]

On 9/20/2016 at 2:25 PM, Donut417 said:

I think that falls under Computer information Systems. I would advise you to check out community colleges first. Only because they are cheaper. You take care of the core classes their and transfer to a 4 year school. Im a business student at Eastern Michgian University and I pay like $1200 a class. Compared to a few hundred dollars at a community college. Defiantly talk to some academic advisors and see what they say. 

 

Another good indicator is look at the job market. See what degree's and certifications companies are asking for. With networking you would most likely look in to Comp TIA Network Plus and possibly the Cisco Certs. Im going for a bachelors in business administration. Ive learned that there are certificates you can get on top of the degree that may be just as good as having a masters degree but take less classes and time. 

 

 

@Zymith This is personally the best option in terms of money conservation.

[Talamakara]

3 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

Not to detract from your point (I agree with a fair bit of it)... But class C is 192.0.0.0-223.255.255.255.... Class D is 224.0.0.0-239.255.255.255.255. And the class system is dead anyways.

 

Additionally, I do think that self-studying for CCNA is a great idea. It's a good goal, and self-motivators can learn a ton in just their free time alone.

Woo hoo, I stand corrected you are right, when i took the course D was your average home router. They have changed a few things since i was in the course, even adding a 5th class. (class e). I don't agree about the class system being dead. But i will agree it's not as prevalent as it once was.

 

I never said self studying was a bad thing, I just said you could get more out of it with an instructor and class mates to work with, as well actual servers onsite to work on/with, over virtual servers.
 

[Unhelpful]

51 minutes ago, Talamakara said:

Woo hoo, I stand corrected you are right, when i took the course D was your average home router. They have changed a few things since i was in the course, even adding a 5th class. (class e). I don't agree about the class system being dead. But i will agree it's not as prevalent as it once was.

 

I never said self studying was a bad thing, I just said you could get more out of it with an instructor and class mates to work with, as well actual servers onsite to work on/with, over virtual servers.
 

Nope, class D is for multicast. 192.x.x.x has been Class C since the beginning. Easy mistake to make.

 

The class system is dead, it's not a question. And unless you are in your 40's, it was likely already dead when you learned about it in your classes. Classless is everywhere and now more relevant and widespread than classful. VLSM is the single most useful tool to networking technicians of the last 15 years, and they have all adopted it. At most, you can still see classful's impact on classless in the form of people casually referring to the various classes in education, even though they aren't in use. It's nothing but education these days, similar to router on a stick. All classes are useful for is pointing out private ranges. It's not actually put into use.

 

A home networking lab is really cheap tbh. You can grab a couple 2960's and a couple 3550's, maybe even 1 or 2 1811s for pretty damn cheap. Great home lab.

 

OP, see if there are any networking specific majors near you. If not, go check out individual CCNA courses and build yourself a homelab to learn in your free time. Start racking up some certs (but make sure you have the knowledge to go with them).

[Talamakara]

24 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

And unless you are in your 40's,
 

lol 37 close enough to 40 lol

though you are right, a couple low end routers and switches shouldn't be too expensive. and can be easily be reset to scratch if you blow it up too badly lol

 

[Unhelpful]

9 hours ago, Talamakara said:

lol 37 close enough to 40 lol

though you are right, a couple low end routers and switches shouldn't be too expensive. and can be easily be reset to scratch if you blow it up too badly lol

Ah. Classful routing has been gone for quite some time, it likely started getting phased out/thrown out the window when you began. RIPv2 was among the first to carry subnet information, and it was finished being standardized in 1998.

 

Yep. I got my CCNA on a decent split between classes and my homelab. "write erase" "reload" "n".

 

https://supportforums.cisco.com/sites/default/files/legacy/6/6/3/15371366-Classful vs Classless Routing.pdf Here's a document showing the reason that classful routing has been entirely discarded. 

[Talamakara]

11 hours ago, JoeyDM said:

https://supportforums.cisco.com/sites/default/files/legacy/6/6/3/15371366-Classful vs Classless Routing.pdf

Good read thanks

 

Im actually quite happy I never got into it as a career. I don't enjoy coding and I wouldn't enjoy staring at this all day.

 

[Unhelpful]

13 minutes ago, Talamakara said:

 

I honestly despise coding... So boring and dull. Cisco IOS, and networking in general, is different somehow. Much more active.

[Talamakara]

1 hour ago, JoeyDM said:

I honestly despise coding... So boring and dull. Cisco IOS, and networking in general, is different somehow. Much more active.

Probably because the code is stationary and you are constantly going over it again and again even when just writing comments. When you are running IOS commands there is always a motion of some kind, the screen changes constantly. Active is probably the best word for it.

[Unhelpful]

9 hours ago, Talamakara said:

Probably because the code is stationary and you are constantly going over it again and again even when just writing comments. When you are running IOS commands there is always a motion of some kind, the screen changes constantly. Active is probably the best word for it.

And the troubleshooting is more interactive, imo.

[SecGuy]

DO NOT DO CISCO!!  The only successful certs these days are CCNP or CCIE, which cost more and are more intensive.  Cisco is great, but do a computer degree first.  You have multiple options for degrees, make sure you choose wisely.  I will explain all the options: 

 

Computer Science:

Computer Science is about the science of computers, not really how to engineer them, it's more about how computers process, represent and store information.  If you want to be software engineer, business side of IT, computer security expert or web developers etc. Go with computer science. 

 

Computer Engineering:

Computer engineering is about actually engineering computers, this is more of a combination of electronic engineering and computer science.  If you like hardware more than software, and enjoy electronics then go with computer engineering.  Computer engineering is good degree if you want to become a very hands on and hardware oriented network engineer. 

 

No proper Degree but Certifications:

This is actually the option I don't recommend because it teaches you practical skills, but not how things work, why the work and how to learn.  Networking and Software is more entwined than ever and dev ops is actually becoming bigger in my opinion.  So, if you want that then go for that.  Because networking has a lot of competition.  

 

So in the end, if you don't want to get a degree beyond a CCNA from the get go, then become really good at networking.  One of my first ventures was penetration testing.  It's a good thing to do because it teaches you about networking vulnerabilities and how network technologies work.  

[Omon_Ra]

Where in PA do you live and how old are you? I went to University of Pittsburgh and it was great. Pittsburgh has a lot of new tech jobs and is a growing citiy. If you want more details about Pitt specifically, PM me, I won't flood this thread with all of that. What year of high school are you in? I didn't actually apply to colleges until my senior year, so don't really stress it if you aren't graduating this year. Definitely go visit a few colleges. I even did tours of schools I really had no interest of applying to, but just to see what they had to offer. Most schools will waive the application fee for doing a visit/official tour, so keep that in mind. If you don't know what you want to major in (most people don't, even by the time they graduate) that's fine, but decide if college/4-year university is what you really want to pursue; especially if you'll be taking out loans to pay for your education. A college education and a degree are great, but it's not for everybody and you by all means don't need one to lead a successful, happy life. Don't feel like you have to go to college just because it's 'what you do after high school.' As others have mentioned, community college is a great way to 'test the waters' if you're unsure of a college. If you should look at University of Pittsburgh, they have several satellite campuses (as does Penn State) where you could take gen ed classes or other classes that will transfer to the main campuses where you could finish your degree. Before you get to college though, try to find a job in a related field to what you would like to major in to see if it is really something you'd want to do.

 

As far as general choosing college advice: decide if you want to go to a smaller school versus a bigger school. Pitt, Penn State, Temple, Drexel, Penn, and the other 'big schools' are great, but if you don't want to have lecture classes that have hundreds of students in them, it's probably not for you. There are a ton of great smaller schools all over the state. Then there's also the city versus country/small-college-town choice. Pittsburgh has several smaller schools aside from CMU and Pitt, but still in the city. So you can still get that city life, but without the big school. State College is pretty much the definition of small-college-town. Aside from having a course of study that you would like to major in, the biggest factor in choosing college is what is a good fit for you. Find something where you'll be comfortable and actually want to study and learn, but also can still enjoy life and what the school's location has to offer.

[Captain Matt]

Don't plan to work at a certain job. That's an outcome goal. Once you hit it, you will probably stop.

Your goal should be a lifestyle.

Don't set your life up so that you have to use more time to get more money. 

Trade your time for value.

 

Just do things that align with the lifestyle you want. Use your skills and create opportunities for yourself.

 

Do you want a fast car? Big house? Yes? No? Write it all out so you know exactly what you are shooting for.

Work isn't the end game. Your lifestyle is the end game.