Requesting Help - Simplified Information of Headsets vs Headphones, Surround

[Lukiose]

Hello peeps, this is kind of a rant thread but i can't resist letting a poorly informed individual off on another forum - even moreso when he is spreading horrid information to people who may are likely to be as misled as him. Think of it as a Vigilante that needs help

For the sake of preserving his reputation & maintaining CoC, this individual shall stay anonymous.

Please first check out how this came about that resulted in the posting in this thread in the first place

 

So over at the 'other' forum, a chill dude needs some help with Audio business.

|Thread Starter|, this babe needs help!

I haven't played MMO for a while and now I realised I need a new headset.

I'm looking at either Sennheiser or Razer, they look comfy. Has anyone got any experience of either?

Am I completely of and should get something else?

 

They need to be over ear and "soft" and have decent ventilation, I realy don't enjoy sweaty ears 

They don't have to be "sound proof" there is noone to disturb in my vicinity as loong as it doesn't cause feedback to the mic.

 

|Knowledgeable Individual|, good post! I agree with this fella

No headphones need "7.1" you only have 2 ears.  A decent sound card can convert it to 2 channel surround and you would hear full 7.1 surround.

 

 

- Built for audiophiles, you won't feel pressure or get hot.  Best used in competitive gaming for high precision.

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_e_3 AD700X

 

- High quality detachable/replaceable mic

Reviews:

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_e_1 Zalman ZM-Mic1

 

Cheapest price atm:

http://www.memoryexp...Products/MX3193 Some other Zalman mic

 

|Me| (Lukiose)

Don't go for 'gaming' headsets, they are all marketing trash and sound like crap with inflated bass and horrible soundstage  < A little over generalisation on my part but you get the idea.

You are much better off with proper similarly priced audiophile headphones paired with a mic - Zalman ZM-Mic1 or a Modmic if you can afford it

Highly Recommended @ your pricerange: AD700X, HD558, V-Moda Crossfades LP

 

Edit: Saw |Knowledgeable Individual's| post, excellent recommendations!

 

That said, if you really, really, really need a headset, the PC360s and PC363D are fine

Ask away here: https://linustechtip...forum/40-audio/ < I linked to our Audio Subforum.

 

And then... a while |Smartass| appears!

No no no.  Don't listen to the anti-gaming-headset posts.  Gaming headsets these days work perfectly fine and offer some of the best surround sound experiences you'll ever get.  If you need to hear directional shots and footsteps, gaming headsets are the way to go.  If you want to use your headset for music and the like, go with a nice set of audiophile phones.

------

I only suggest going with headphones as opposed to a headset if you already have a dedicated sound card, otherwise you won't be able to experience surround sound properly.  Headsets (the higher end ones) come with surround sound drivers that are built to work specifically with the purchased headset. 

 

Yes, you'll get better sound quality from audiophile headsets overall but you'll also be paying a much higher price for the same quality and experience.  Headsets incorporate everything into one whereas headphones require the consumer to purchase multiple products, thus increasing the cost.

 

If you don't care about directional sound whatsoever (front, back, sides, imitated subwoofer) then a good set of audiophile phones are for you.

 

Personally, I suggest going with something that will provide you with surround sound as you'll be able to know exactly where enemies and the like are coming from.

 

If you're interested in a comparison of both headsets and headphones you can find a detailed review and guide here: http://www.head-fi.o...ony-ma900-added

 

 

|Knowledgeable Individual| counters with a well written post.

  With a sound card you get full 3d immersion with a headset and less latency.  It can trick your brain which direction the sound is coming from, most games do this already without a sound card.  You only have 2 ears, sound delay from one to the other is what gives us the perception of sound direction.  I mean, you don't have 7.1 ears.  The amount of speakers built into the headsets do not matter if sound can't reach both ears.

 

 

 I used to think like you, then I educated myself through Google.

 

|Smartass| counters with a.. not-so-well written post filled with off-topic & uninformed data

Clearly you didn't do enough research.  I suggest purchasing an AV receiver and some nice speakers.  Hook two up and watch a Blu-ray.  Then, watch the same Blu-ray with the rest of the speakers set up.  Notice anything?  Surround sound.  This same concept is applied to surround sound headset as well as headphones that employ the use of a sound card with surround sound.  Dolby does wonders.  Once you've actually done this and some research you'll be able to communicate intelligent thoughts since you possess the required knowledge.

 

Regardless of what you think, facts are facts and those that have experienced surround sound, both with floorstanding speakers and Dolby surround playback via headphones / headset can recognize a very noticeable difference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

Get the flow of how everything started yet? This is not the end yet

 

|Smartass| starts a PM with me, titled 'Headsets vs Headphones' scary!

 

Newer, higher end headsets come with surround sound which is great for gaming.

Headphones need a dedicated sound card to provide surround sound, thus increasing cost.
That's the logic I'm following and putting into my posts, mate!

-----

|Me|

Ok i sounded kinda like an ass   But it was a natural reaction as a tech individual, i was enraged that a person is spreading nonsense!

 

I will get back to you once i'm back on my desktop at home.

Things aren't as easy as it looks, don't try to educate me on how stuff works and don't go around spreading un-informative tech knowledge. I don't have 1.4k posts on a tech forum specializing in Graphics Card & Peripherals for nothing.

Since i don't have time for now, here's a thought for you until later: Surround sound 5.1,7.1 is complete farce, it is a marketing technique to lure in people like you. This.is.a.fact.

Get back to you in ~7 hours.

-----

|Smartass|

Wow, i am wrong here, without any solid data or facts to prove why i am wrong, DAMN SON! THIS DUDE MEANS SERIOUS BUSINESS.

 

That's not a fact at all, considering it works.  Surround sound / directional input exists and you can't deny that.  Without a proper surround sound driver headphones won't be relaying the correct signals in anything other than 2 channel stereo with some bass.  For gaming, it's important that a player can locate and pinpoint where footsteps, gunshots, and in the case of Start Citizen, engine sounds are coming from.  You can't do this with traditional headphones without the help of a sound card.  Furthermore, a headset incorporates surround sound drivers and makes use of the positional audio that's being processed.

 

I don't care if you have two posts or ten thousand posts.<This is the only thing i agree, self-facepalm right there  You're wrong here.  Yes, you'll get better sound quality from audiophile headsets overall but you'll also be paying a much higher price for the same quality and experience.  Headsets incorporate everything into one whereas headphones require the consumer to purchase multiple products, thus increasing the cost.

------

|Me|

Didn't even bother wasting time, just linked our dear thread.

 

I wouldn't even bother arguing.

Read. https://linustechtip...s-pre-answered/ < Our excellent Audio F.A.Q thread written by h.264 personally.

and learn.

-----

|Mr Smartypants|

So yeah, i guess he didn't have the technical know-how to understand what was written in h264's informative thread. Sad.

 

 

All that did was prove what I previously stated...

Headset for those without a sound card.

Headphones for those with good audiophile phones.

All you did was link me to someone's opinionated post that agreed with what I was saying. Lol.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

So yeah, here's the point of this thread: i need you people to help me out by simplifying the "un-understandable" F.A.Q Thread. On the topics of "Headsets vs Headphones", 'Surround' vs '2.1', 'EXPENSIVE Audiophile Headphones vs Headsets', 'What do you need a soundcard for'.

This is all explained very well in h264's thread but this particular individual whom i want to stop from spreading misinformation apparently doesn't comprehend, so please help me out a little will ya people   This thread will serve as a reference point for me to make a firm statement in this particular incident as well as any future incidents when people go all 'HEADSET>HEADPHONES, SURROUND 7.1 HURRDURR, SOUNDCARDS CHEAP OP'. I usually don't care but when someone so blatantly spreads horrible misinformation around i just can't help myself as a member of an awesome Tech community to retort   

 

*[iMPORTANT: Please keep this somewhat-civilised! Playful insults are accepted but don't overdo it!(If you want you can scold me for being a nosy-parker ) Windspeed can chill out a little on this thread, the individual is not of our community, and will stay anonymous.]*

 

@h264 @t0wer @ShearMe @MayflowerElectronics I have faith in you experienced guys to make this a swift & thorough explanation  Others are welcome to help out as well!

[Please don't post only to insult this particular individual, i sincerely wish for each post to be as highly informative and idiot-proof as possible] [Not a flamebait, i repeat, informative posts, please!]

 

Edit: Realised this may be a potentially dangerous post, keep em informative posts coming people! Once i have a few nice replies i will call Windspeed or Dave to lock this up to prevent it from spiraling out of control

[Titanicium]

What´s up with all the black markings and red script? It hurts my eyes like hell

[MammothJerk]

Virtual barbershop with stereo headsets

[Lukiose]

What´s up with all the black markings and red script? It hurts my eyes like hell

Really sorry about that  :wacko: Any idea how to remove the black portions?

 

Update: Done Hope it's much easier to read now

Edited October 16, 2013 by Lukiose

[h264]

He's not going to listen to you so just ignore him. I can't convince everyone, but if I can convince you that's all that matters.

If you post the truth in every thread and he keeps spouting off like a know-it-all, eventually people will believe you and not him. Getting into arguments with people gets you nowhere. Look at congress.

[Titanicium]

Really sorry about that  :wacko: Any idea how to remove the black portions?

 

Really no idea, but aren´t there some sort of tool in the tool panel which allows you to change the colour of the text and it´s surroundings? I have never encountered this problem myself

[Josh]

Not sure why you feel that you have to educate this particular person, seems like you're overly desperate to prove a point or win an argument. Even if he's spreading misinformation, the general consensus is that stereo headhpones are better and there are clearly others backing the same point on that forum. Basically there's no point arguing with this person, some people won't accept valid information for whatever reason. Ignore them.

[Parkway Drive]

Correct me if I'm wrong:
 
Generally speaking headphones that are similarly priced to headsets will often have better sound quality. For this reason we often recommend to those who are looking for a better audio experience to look at a pair of dedicated headphones and a microphone such as the Zalman MC-Mic1, Modmic (when available), desk mic (blue snowball, etc.) or add on mic (ebay, v-moda, etc.)
 
For the most part, those looking at headsets usually fall back on the convenience, availability, or some other reason of their own. The best we can do to help is share our experience and give them suggestions. Not everyone is going to take our advice. I understand your frustration but we can't save everyone  haha just chill.
 
EDIT: These guys, spot on
 

He's not going to listen to you so just ignore him. I can't convince everyone, but if I can convince you that's all that matters.

If you post the truth in every thread and he keeps spouting off like a know-it-all, eventually people will believe you and not him. Getting into arguments with people gets you nowhere. Look at congress.

 

Not sure why you feel that you have to educate this particular person, seems like you're overly desperate to prove a point or win an argument. Even if he's spreading misinformation, the general consensus is that stereo headhpones are better and there are clearly others backing the same point on that forum. Basically there's no point arguing with this person, some people won't accept valid information for whatever reason. Ignore them.

[Lukiose]

Not sure why you feel that you have to educate this particular person, seems like you're overly desperate to prove a point or win an argument. Even if he's spreading misinformation, the general consensus is that stereo headhpones are better and there are clearly others backing the same point on that forum. Basically there's no point arguing with this person, some people won't accept valid information for whatever reason. Ignore them.

I'm actually sending this thread to the OP to make sure he makes the right purchase

I couldn't give a damn about the individual referred in the thread, he's too thickheaded to change his views. I can't help it when i see someone posting crap about tech to mislead other people though   It makes me go apeshit and wanna just scream: 'You bloody retard that has no idea what you are saying, shut the fuck up and stop misleading others!'

But yeah, i think i am overly desperate  Gotta try to just d.g.a.f godforsaken people... LTT is where i belong.

[MayflowerElectronics]

There's people like that everywhere on every forum, including this one. They just want what they want and ignore other peoples opinions. I used to be like that a long long time ago, but I was pretty immature. Which is what I think is the underlying cause of people like that is, is immaturity. As long as you know what to buy and what's a good educated decision, who cares let them waste their own money.

[SirReallySam]

He's not going to listen to you so just ignore him. I can't convince everyone, but if I can convince you that's all that matters.

If you post the truth in every thread and he keeps spouting off like a know-it-all, eventually people will believe you and not him. Getting into arguments with people gets you nowhere. Look at congress.

Indeed haha

[ShearMe]

1) You do not need a soundcard for virtual surround. Razer Surround is free.

 

2) In a "gaming" headset, manufacturers have to cover the cost of integration, which is to say, adding a mic to a pair of headphones. Look at any other product on the market where there are multiple devices integrated into one, and you will see an increase in price for this integration over the price of separate devices. For products like cell phones, the cost of integration often goes down over time due to specialized chips fulfilling multiple purposes - headphones and microphones do not have this luxury. 

 

TL;DR: Separate headphones and a microphone can achieve superior performance at a lesser price than integrated solutions.

 

3) For the same reasons in 2, headsets with multiple drivers cannot perform better than virtual surround in a decent set of headphones with only two drivers.

 

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

[Parkway Drive]

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

HAHA!  He gets it

[Lukiose]

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

I am a bonafide retard

But nice post <3

[Izomo]

1) You do not need a soundcard for virtual surround. Razer Surround is free.

 

2) In a "gaming" headset, manufacturers have to cover the cost of integration, which is to say, adding a mic to a pair of headphones. Look at any other product on the market where there are multiple devices integrated into one, and you will see an increase in price for this integration over the price of separate devices. For products like cell phones, the cost of integration often goes down over time due to specialized chips fulfilling multiple purposes - headphones and microphones do not have this luxury. 

 

TL;DR: Separate headphones and a microphone can achieve superior performance at a lesser price than integrated solutions.

 

3) For the same reasons in 2, headsets with multiple drivers cannot perform better than virtual surround in a decent set of headphones with only two drivers.

 

4) Mr Smartass is a troll, and all you're doing is feeding him.

 

Thank you for writing this up. I keep hearing people say "well just buy a clip on mic" without really explaining. So thank you.