A real camera...

[tcolecruz]

I've been taking photos and editing them on my phone for a couple years now, and I kind of want to get a legit camera. I do mostly landscape and street photography, focusing on bigger things rather than small (get your minds out of the gutter :P). I started out posting pictures I took on my *cough cough* Instagram *cough cough* using an iPhone 4s which was pretty good for its time. Since then, I've gotten an HTC one M8, which has disappointed me to say the least in the camera department. Despite this, I've actually taken/made some pretty awesome photos with it. Anyways, what brings me to this part of the forum is that I recently gained interest in buying a real camera (I know that's kind of ridiculous for Instagram, but hear me out). I understand the very basics of composing a shot, and I understand how ISO, aperture, shutter, etc... work. I have used some Nikon DSLR's quite a bit so I'm not entirely new to the market, but... I don't know my shit when it comes to the technology of digital cameras. I'm getting a new phone soon which I will make sure has a good camera, but I'd like to get a proper DSLR or mirrrorless for taking better photos and editing them in light room. Anyways, my budget is up to $1200, however it doesn't need to be the upper limit of what a camera has to offer (and I know that doesn't exist in that price point). I've been considering either a:

• Fuji X100t  (the one brandon uses for most stills) 
• Fuji Xt10 (basically a cheaper version of the xt1, with less features but same sensor)
• Canon t6s or t6i (I don't know what lens I would get though)

Please give me your guys' suggestions on what I should be look for/at

[ALwin]

$1200 is a pretty decent budget to get a nice camera kit.

• Do you want something that has a bit more bulk like a DSLR body or something that is slightly compact (relatively speaking) like a mirrorless camera?
• The cameras you've selected are good cameras, but also know their limitations, like the X100T being a fixed lens camera.

One thing I would suggest is that you visit a store that has these cameras on display.  Ask the clerk there if you can take a look at them, hold them in your hands, try to get a feel for the camera.  Think about the ergonomics since you will be the one using the camera.

 

Look at their specs on a website such as B&H, compare their features.  On B&H you can also filter out other cameras by brand name, type, and price.  See if there are other camera models that interest you.  Check out the line-up of lenses that are available for each brand.  Sometimes one brand may produce a fantastic camera body, but the list of lenses available is not that great.

 

EDIT:

Think about the features you want in a camera.  There are hardly any bad cameras, but there are a lot of bad photographers.

[tcolecruz]

Just now, ALwin said:

$1200 is a pretty decent budget to get a nice camera kit.

• Do you want something that has a bit more bulk like a DSLR body or something that is slightly compact (relatively speaking) like a mirrorless camera?
• The cameras you've selected are good cameras, but also know their limitations, like the X100T being a fixed lens camera.

One thing I would suggest is that you visit a store that has these cameras on display.  Ask the clerk there if you can take a look at them, hold them in your hands, try to get a feel for the camera.  Think about the ergonomics since you will be the one using the camera.

 

Look at their specs on a website such as B&H, compare their features.  On B&H you can also filter out other cameras by brand name, type, and price.  See if there are other camera models that interest you.  Check out the line-up of lenses that are available for each brand.  Sometimes one brand may produce a fantastic camera body, but the list of lenses available is not that great.

Thank you for the helpful advice. I know the limitations of the x100t, but not so much the xt10. The Fuji x lenses are outrageously expensive so that is good to keep in mind. I would like to have something compact that I can carry with me EVERYWHERE, and I don't think I can do that with a dslr realistically. Any personal recommendations? Next time I'm at a best buy, I will get a feel for some cameras. Tell me if I'm wrong, but the composition and skill is much more important than the gear you are using. Correct?

[ALwin]

Just now, tcolecruz said:

Thank you for the helpful advice. I know the limitations of the x100t, but not so much the xt10. The Fuji x lenses are outrageously expensive so that is good to keep in mind. I would like to have something compact that I can carry with me EVERYWHERE, and I don't think I can do that with a dslr realistically. Any personal recommendations? Next time I'm at a best buy, I will get a feel for some cameras. Tell me if I'm wrong, but the composition and skill is much more important than the gear you are using. Correct?

Generally speaking, YES, skill is more important than gear.  However sometimes you need to have the "right" gear in order to achieve something.  But most cameras these days are capable of allowing the photographer to do a lot of things.  Think about the things you want to do with the camera.

 

One thing I find about Fuji, while their lenses may be expensive, they do produce fantastic lenses.  Their basic 18-55mm'ish kit lens, which seems to be a popular focal range for a kit lens with many other brands, is quite amazing compared to other 18-55mm kit lenses from brands like Nikon and Canon.

 

The limitations of any camera is mostly relative to what you want to be able to do. So think about the features you want in a camera.  There are hardly any bad cameras, but there are a lot of bad photographers.

[tcolecruz]

1 minute ago, ALwin said:

Generally speaking, YES, skill is more important than gear.  However sometimes you need to have the "right" gear in order to achieve something.  But most cameras these days are capable of allowing the photographer to do a lot of things.  Think about the things you want to do with the camera.

 

One thing I find about Fuji, while their lenses may be expensive, they do produce fantastic lenses.  Their basic 18-55mm'ish kit lens, which seems to be a popular focal range for a kit lens with many other brands, is quite amazing compared to other 18-55mm kit lenses from brands like Nikon and Canon.

 

The limitations of any camera is mostly relative to what you want to be able to do. So think about the features you want in a camera.  There are hardly any bad cameras, but there are a lot of bad photographers.

So, if I did get the xt-10, you think I'd do fine just with the kit lens for a while? It seems like the best out of the 3 I have there. 

[ALwin]

32 minutes ago, tcolecruz said:

So, if I did get the xt-10, you think I'd do fine just with the kit lens for a while? It seems like the best out of the 3 I have there. 

Probably, it all depends on what you want in a camera.

[ShadowCaptain]

id buy an RX100 IV or A6300

[Riley-NZL]

How's the camera in your 4s, M8 not an "legit camera". There's probably been more R&D dollars spent on the cameras in those than any DSLR.

 

Canon 1200/1300D with the kit 18-55 lens (or Nikon/Sony Equivalents) would be a good starting point . You'll want to replace the lens with something a bit better as soon as you can afford it though.

 

One thing I would say to any beginner landscape photographers, wide isn't always better, it's often better having a tighter shot then a superwide one with nothing interesting in it.

[cc143]

How well versed in photography would you say you are? Given your case and provided you take landscapes etc, I can see use for a Full Frame body. 

 

What I would suggest anyone who is a) somewhat knowleadgeable i.e. does not need auto modes on a camera (Knows about aperture, shutter iso b) does not take action shots and c) care a lot about weight is Pick up a used full frame body e.g. a Canon 5D mk1 (or mk2 if the price drops as I expect when ythe 5d4 is announced on the 26th) off ebay, which should be available for around the price of an entry level DSLR, as well as a good lens that fits their needs, in your case perhaps a 17-40mm L.   

 

Full Disclosure, I understand the risk of buying a used old camera and the merits of getting a new one instead, I just feel the new camera route is being adequately represented by others in the forum, and would like to present this option as well. The a6300 mentioned above or a 760D or even 70D are all great offerings. 

[ALwin]

2 hours ago, cc143 said:

What I would suggest anyone who is a) somewhat knowleadgeable i.e. does not need auto modes on a camera (Knows about aperture, shutter iso b) does not take action shots

What is this supposed to mean?  Even experienced photographers use Shutter, Aperture and Program modes which are auto modes, in their own ways.

And what do you mean not take action shots?

[cc143]

41 minutes ago, ALwin said:

What is this supposed to mean?  Even experienced photographers use Shutter, Aperture and Program modes which are auto modes, in their own ways.

And what do you mean not take action shots?

I mean that you have no need for say auto macro or portrait mode, but most importantly that you understand how aperture shutter and iso work, which is necessary to use Program Aperture and Shutter priorities, and are thus able, and willing to use them, I am not suggesting you should have your camera locked in Manual all the time, weather you are an enthusiast, pro, beginner or 14 year old girl who got a dslr for Christmas. Anything below the Auto mark is not available on a 5D anyway. 

 

No action shots is because a 5d has a 3fps burst rate and 5d2 3.9 fps burst rate so if your need is to take pictures at football matches, it isn't the best option (A used 7D body would work better for that.) 

[ALwin]

9 minutes ago, cc143 said:

auto macro or portrait mode

Does those modes come on the sort of cameras that the OP is looking at?  And on the ones that have those modes, for beginners these modes can be helpful.  It also depends on the direction someone wants to take their photography.  Sure it can be a waste of potential to buy a DSLR and not use it fully, but there really is nothing wrong with if the person who bought it only wants to use it casually.

 

As for action shots, even a Canon 5D can be used to capture the action.  It may have a low fps for continuous mode, which of course will be limiting to people who are trying to photograph (for example, fast action sports where a key moment might be unpredictable and last only for a fraction of a second), but that doesn't mean a photographer cannot use the camera to capture action.

[cc143]

2 minutes ago, ALwin said:

Does those modes come on the sort of cameras that the OP is looking at?  And on the ones that have those modes, for beginners these modes can be helpful.  It also depends on the direction someone wants to take their photography.  Sure it can be a waste of potential to buy a DSLR and not use it fully, but there really is nothing wrong with if the person who bought it only wants to use it casually.

 

As for action shots, even a Canon 5D can be used to capture the action.  It may have a low fps for continuous mode, which of course will be limiting to people who are trying to photograph (for example, fast action sports where a key moment might be unpredictable and last only for a fraction of a second), but that doesn't mean a photographer cannot use the camera to capture action.

My initial suggestion was for the OP to get a used cheap body e.g. a 5d mk1, along with one (or 2) good lenses if they really want to get into photography, especially for the sort of use they mentioned. I was not referring to any of the cameras they suggested they were between but merely providing another option, people usually tend to overlook, which is an approach which has merits and flaws just like any purchasing decision not limited to photography.

 

I would expect the cameras the OP mentioned to have these settings never the less. 

 

As far as the sports photography or action shots point goes, that is precisely my point, i.e. That a 5d, (which I suggested with Landscapes etc. in mind), would not be nearly as good as something like a 7d or even 50d which are capable of at least double the fps rate. 

 

The point is that we are at a point where getting into full frame digital photogrpahy, for the first time has become possible for people on a budget, even if they are beginners where the Marginal utility of a Full Frame sensor does not outweigh the cost. This is something that I for one was made aware of only recently and find very appealing, so I'm just spreading the word. 

[Riley-NZL]

9 hours ago, cc143 said:

How well versed in photography would you say you are? Given your case and provided you take landscapes etc, I can see use for a Full Frame body. 

 

What I would suggest anyone who is a) somewhat knowleadgeable i.e. does not need auto modes on a camera (Knows about aperture, shutter iso b) does not take action shots and c) care a lot about weight is Pick up a used full frame body e.g. a Canon 5D mk1 (or mk2 if the price drops as I expect when ythe 5d4 is announced on the 26th) off ebay, which should be available for around the price of an entry level DSLR, as well as a good lens that fits their needs, in your case perhaps a 17-40mm L.   

 

Full Disclosure, I understand the risk of buying a used old camera and the merits of getting a new one instead, I just feel the new camera route is being adequately represented by others in the forum, and would like to present this option as well. The a6300 mentioned above or a 760D or even 70D are all great offerings. 

It's pretty hard to suggest an 5d mk1 these days, most crop sensor bodies are going to perform better. The 5Dmk2 would be worth looking at, but your probably better going for the Canon 6D if you want an affordable Full-frame body (or Nikon Equivalent)

[cc143]

18 minutes ago, Riley-NZL said:

It's pretty hard to suggest an 5d mk1 these days, most crop sensor bodies are going to perform better. The 5Dmk2 would be worth looking at, but your probably better going for the Canon 6D if you want an affordable Full-frame body (or Nikon Equivalent)

The 5D mk1 is currently at the price of a 1300D kit, surely it lacks some bells and whistles, but I believe it is still competitive at that price point, and allows someone who has knowledge to build upon to do so more easily in my opinion, it is certainly not something to recommend to anyone who has never worked with a dslr before, but realistically, isn't a 12.8mp sensor enough? I mean what are you going to do with the picture? turn it into a wallpaper? 

 

Also, that allows you to invest in some pretty good glass, which is obviously much more important than the body! 

 

The 6d (in the UK market) is currently at about 100GBP more than the 5d2, and I believe, even spec for spec, the 5d2 is better, ok it doesn't have wifi or whatever, who cares, get a 50mm f/1.4 instead, its a far better use of your money. I can't speak for Nikon, I am not really familiar with their lineup. 

 

One important point for FF over APS-c for the OP is that a 1.6x crop factor is quite significant when trying to get landscapes or wider angle pictures, even at the 18mm focal length, it is nowhere near wide enough. (Its effectively at 29mm!), if you are travelling with a single lens ( as I often do), the 28-135mm, becomes a 45 at the wide end, it really doesn't cover ones needs, even a 24-105 is still too long! 

 

 

[ALwin]

The Fuji cameras that the OP selected are also pretty good cameras, like the XT10.  With the 16-50mm kit lens, it comes out to $900 on B&H, saving the OP $300 to buy some other accessories or a second lens.  Or he can buy the kit with the 16-50 and 50-230mm lenses which is around $1100.  These sort of kits will also be less bulk than a 5D mk I or even a 6D, not to mention the fact that FF lenses can be a bit more expensive.  Be realistic, going FF on a $1200 budget is not reasonable unless it's going to be a film camera.

 

Sure you can probably find a used 5D mk I for less than $1000 somewhere, but it will be too old, too far out of warranty, and likely too far out of date for Canon to even service if something happens.

 

The OP doesn't even need a RX100 or a6300.

 

Landscape photography can also be done with a cropped sensor camera.

[tcolecruz]

On 8/6/2016 at 4:47 PM, ALwin said:

The Fuji cameras that the OP selected are also pretty good cameras, like the XT10.  With the 16-50mm kit lens, it comes out to $900 on B&H, saving the OP $300 to buy some other accessories or a second lens.  Or he can buy the kit with the 16-50 and 50-230mm lenses which is around $1100.  These sort of kits will also be less bulk than a 5D mk I or even a 6D, not to mention the fact that FF lenses can be a bit more expensive.  Be realistic, going FF on a $1200 budget is not reasonable unless it's going to be a film camera.

 

Sure you can probably find a used 5D mk I for less than $1000 somewhere, but it will be too old, too far out of warranty, and likely too far out of date for Canon to even service if something happens.

 

The OP doesn't even need a RX100 or a6300.

 

Landscape photography can also be done with a cropped sensor camera.

Thanks for the helpful feedback.