Can a nicrome wire @ 450W 12v reach ~300C

[Bajantechnician]

so, for all you math peopl eout there

 

for a school project, i need to heat up a copper pipe to  a maximum stable ~250

 

Now, what i need to do is use a 450 watt,, 12 v rail from a psu, and connect it to a scitch and a nicrome wire.

 

the nicrom wire will wrap arround the copper pipe, thus heating it.

The measurement of ~250c will not be coming from he wire, but from the transfered heat to the copper.

and i might use some thermal paste to help transfer heat.

Thus the wire temp has to be much higher than the pipe temp, because of heat transfer loss. This is why I said 300C

 

ill draw a diagram

 

 

---------------------/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/----

---------------------/-/-/-/-//-/-/------

                                              /\

                                            /  I  \

                                               I

                                               I

 

the slashes is where the wire is coiled, adn the 2 dashed lines is the pipe

 

th arrow represents where the 250C measurement will be taken.

 

 

Thanks

@W-L@Enderman

[W-L]

10 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

-SNIP-

It looks like it depends on the diameter of the wire you will be using but it shouldn't have an issue as it's melting point is around 1400C. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichrome

 

If you need really stable temps though you may want to consider building a chamber/oven so it easily retains the heat and heats the copper evenly with the thermocouple directly inside. 

[Bajantechnician]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

It looks like it depends on the diameter of the wire you will be using but it shouldn't have an issue as it's melting point is around 1400C. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nichrome

 

If you need really stable temps though you may want to consider building a chamber/oven so it easily retains the heat and heats the copper evenly with the thermocouple directly inside. 

the maximum tollerance of the wire is 1400c, but is 450w @ 12v enough to get the wire to 250c?

it will be arround 24gauge

 

and, it is a limited budget of ~$30-50

 

will the cpu thermal paste help to transfer the heat from the wire to the copper?

 

Thanks W_l

[W-L]

8 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

the maximum tollerance of the wire is 1400c, but is 450w @ 12v enough to get the wire to 250c?

it will be arround 24gauge

and, it is a limited budget of ~$30-50

will the cpu thermal paste help to transfer the heat from the wire to the copper?

Thanks W_l

This may be something to look into as it has calcuators to determine best wire size, but only one way to find out.

http://web.archive.org/web/20120920075813/http://www.pelicanwire.com/category/formulas-resistance/

 

For a camber you could simply make it out of firebrick stacked into a chamber not ideal but better than open air and letting the heat escape. The thermocouple should be in direct contact in the heated area not the side as it will only get the transferred temp through the copper and not at the point of heating, as for thermal paste I don't think it can take that kind of temp. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by W-L

[Bajantechnician]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

This may be something tobox be enough for  look into as it has calcuators to determine best wire size and currents/votlages. 

http://web.archive.org/web/20120920075813/http://www.pelicanwire.com/category/formulas-resistance/

 

For a camber you could simply make it out of firebrick stacked into a chamber not ideal but better than open air and letting the heat escape. The thermocouple should be in direct contact in the heated area not the side as it will only get the transferred temp through the copper and not at the point of heating, as for thermal paste I don't think it can take that kind of temp. 

thank you for the calculator.

give me a sec to use it

 

would a wood box be enough for a chamber? and yes, i will drill a home in the copper, and poke the thermocouple through the innder radius to the center

thats what i though, thermal paste will dry up or such

Thanks

[W-L]

4 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

thank you for the calculator.

give me a sec to use it

would a wood box be enough for a chamber? and yes, i will drill a home in the copper, and poke the thermocouple through the innder radius to the center

thats what i though, thermal paste will dry up or such

Thanks

Not at those temps wood would charr. you might be able to get away with a metal or steel box with an insulation blanket like mineral wool (Rockwool) around it as that would keep the temps even. 

[Bajantechnician]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

Not at those temps wood would charr. you might be able to get away with a metal or steel box with an insulation blanket like mineral wool (Rockwool) around it as that would keep the temps even. 

AHHH

i have a sheet of the carbon wool thing they use as a sheld when weilding or such

This basicly

http://steinerindustries.com/blankets-rolls/product/steiner-316-velvet-shield-16-oz-black-carbonized-fiber-welding-blanket

would i be able to use wood and use the wool on thee inside of the box? as stell is way to expensice for the build

[W-L]

7 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

AHHH

i have a sheet of the carbon wool thing they use as a sheld when weilding or such

This basicly

http://steinerindustries.com/blankets-rolls/product/steiner-316-velvet-shield-16-oz-black-carbonized-fiber-welding-blanket

would i be able to use wood and use the wool on thee inside of the box? as stell is way to expensice for the build

That looks like it is good but I would do a small test first just in case as I'm not sure if that is a sustained 1800F or just from weld splatter. It should be good, ideally a metal box would be best but with extra thick layers of insulation I think you may be able to get away with a wood box.

 

For a cheap metal box the best thing I can think of is if you can get yourself a hold of some old ammo box or some kind of thick tin/storage container. 

[Bajantechnician]

9 minutes ago, W-L said:

That looks like it is good but I would do a small test first just in case as I'm not sure if that is a sustained 1800F or just from weld splatter. It should be good, ideally a metal box would be best but with extra thick layers of insulation I think you may be able to get away with a wood box.

 

For a cheap metal box the best thing I can think of is if you can get yourself a hold of some old ammo box or some kind of thick tin/storage container. 

1800f?

I know for a fact it can stand up to at least 600c, as I burned jb wield to carbon with the same temps the carbon was introduced to the heat. And it was fine. Lol. Bad explination.I know the carbon cloth can stand up to 600c.

Maybe 2 layers of that, then plywood?

 

Ammo boxes are expensive tho. And then I'll have to drill a hole in it, as the pipe has to stick out of both sides of the enclosure

[W-L]

4 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

1800f?

I know for a fact it can stand up to at least 600c, as I burned jb wield to carbon with the same temps the carbon was introduced to the heat. And it was fine. Lol. Bad explination.I know the carbon cloth can stand up to 600c.

Maybe 2 layers of that, then plywood?

 

Ammo boxes are expensive tho. And then I'll have to drill a hole in it, as the pipe has to stick out of both sides of the enclosure

Give it a try and see but be sure to make the box big enough so you can add extra insulation just incase, for the plywood lining it with aluminum foil might help in the areas where the pipe sticks through so it doesn't scorch the wood in anyway. 

[Energycore]

1 hour ago, Bajantechnician said:

so, for all you math peopl eout there

I study maths and I'm clueless

[Bajantechnician]

9 minutes ago, W-L said:

Give it a try and see but be sure to make the box big enough so you can add extra insulation just incase, for the plywood lining it with aluminum foil might help in the areas where the pipe sticks through so it doesn't scorch the wood in anyway. 

good call. Aluminum foil

 

I'm going to stick with the wire, bust just wondering, would a band heater also have the same effects?

4 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I study maths and I'm clueless

I'm taking math and I'm the one asking the questions lol

[W-L]

4 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

good call. Aluminum foil

 

I'm going to stick with the wire, bust just wondering, would a band heater also have the same effects?

I'm taking math and I'm the one asking the questions lol

Band heaters tend to need to be in contact to really transfer heat effectively from my understanding so using the nichrome would probably be the most cost effective, another method may be an induction coil but you would require the proper supplies and circuity to do that. 

 

Just wonder what is this for exactly? 

[Bajantechnician]

10 minutes ago, W-L said:

Band heaters tend to need to be in contact to really transfer heat effectively from my understanding so using the nichrome would probably be the most cost effective, another method may be an induction coil but you would require the proper supplies and circuity to do that. 

 

Just wonder what is this for exactly? 

Cost effective?

 

Lol. Time someone asked. 

 

For school, we have to recycle failed 3d prints. So what I will be doing is using a motor with a auger attached to it to drive cut up parts of the pla down the tube. When the pla goes to the heated part, it Melts, where pressure from the constant feeding of plastic through the tube pushed the pla out of a end cap which has a hole of 1.6mm. 

 

Baicly using a auger I'm going to turn it to pressure plastic bits into a heat chamber.(the tube) where is is pushed out the other end , by the means of a hole in a pipe cap. 

 

Mating the failed prints back into  usable filiment.

And yeah, I know. It messes up the pla if it's been melted before

[W-L]

7 hours ago, Bajantechnician said:

Cost effective?

Lol. Time someone asked. 

For school, we have to recycle failed 3d prints. So what I will be doing is using a motor with a auger attached to it to drive cut up parts of the pla down the tube. When the pla goes to the heated part, it Melts, where pressure from the constant feeding of plastic through the tube pushed the pla out of a end cap which has a hole of 1.6mm. 

Baicly using a auger I'm going to turn it to pressure plastic bits into a heat chamber.(the tube) where is is pushed out the other end , by the means of a hole in a pipe cap. 

Mating the failed prints back into  usable filiment.

And yeah, I know. It messes up the pla if it's been melted before

Ah ok so like a plastic extruder that takes chopped up pieces back to a solid filament. Just be sure to have fairly accurate temp readings potentially a few along the length so it doesn't overheat the plastic. 

[Bajantechnician]

3 hours ago, W-L said:

Ah ok so like a plastic extruder that takes chopped up pieces back to a solid filament. Just be sure to have fairly accurate temp readings potentially a few along the length so it doesn't overheat the plastic. 

Yup

 

Yeah, I'll prob have at least 2 temp sensors

[Bajantechnician]

3 hours ago, W-L said:

Ah ok so like a plastic extruder that takes chopped up pieces back to a solid filament. Just be sure to have fairly accurate temp readings potentially a few along the length so it doesn't overheat the plastic. 

but, still one question, that 450 W 12 v is enough to make like a foot of 24 gauge nichrome at  least 230C?

[W-L]

10 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

but, still one question, that 450 W 12 v is enough to make like a foot of 24 gauge nichrome at  least 230C?

I'm not 100% sure but with 450w at 12 volts you will be putting quite a lot of amps through it so it should get that hot or melt possibly

[Bajantechnician]

8 minutes ago, W-L said:

I'm not 100% sure but with 450w at 12 volts you will be putting quite a lot of amps through it so it should get that hot or melt possibly

so 12 v is too much?

 

mayvbe 2 v resistor?

and the power will come from a computer psu

[W-L]

52 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

so 12 v is too much?

mayvbe 2 v resistor?

and the power will come from a computer psu

I'm just afraid the amps would be a bit high and overdo it with the wire. 

[Bajantechnician]

8 minutes ago, W-L said:

I'm just afraid the amps would be a bit high and overdo it with the wire. 

Ahh. Maybe 18 gauge?

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Bajantechnician said:

Ahh. Maybe 18 gauge?

Yeah the higher gauge stuff will be a better option with the lower voltages and higher amperage. 

[Bajantechnician]

11 minutes ago, W-L said:

Yeah the higher gauge stuff will be a better option with the lower voltages and higher amperage. 

Ahh.

 

What's you suggestion of wire size?

[W-L]

8 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

Ahh.

What's you suggestion of wire size?

18 AWG is fairly thick as solid core so it shouldn't have too many isssues

[Bajantechnician]

20 minutes ago, W-L said:

18 AWG is fairly thick as solid core so it shouldn't have too many isssues

I see.

 

Most likely going to buy parts today, so I'll update you after