Hardware Labs Rad Causing Color Change?

[JayzTwoCents]

Dude, Im so glad to hear that... honestly. Then you know that the temperatures are indeed a part of the issue, but not THE issue. Since I was also under the impression that the heat and the nano particles might be the issue was my reasoning to switching to the PC Clear. I am still using Mayhems Dye though, and this could be the dye picking up the particulates and not the nano particles.... I think I may have to test this with straight distilled and see if it changes or has particles in it after time

 

So just to clarify if you want to try to recreate this loop yourself for testing

 

Fluid: PrimoChill Clear + Mayhems Orange Dye (no UV, red, etc... just orange)

Pump: EK D5 Res Top + Acrylic Res

Rad: Nemisis GTS 480x30mm Rad
Block: EK Nickel Plexi CPU Block

Primochill PETG Tubing. No soft tubing whatsoever

Primochill Revolver Compression Fittings

 

 

[VSG]

Ok, ignore that broken quote. This forum layout still has bugs. 

 

So here's the thing about temps- I can't find anything to show they do much in a bulk volume setup (3.5 mL of nanofluids, various kinds) going from 10 to 110 C at pH 3-11. This is why I was asking the other guy if he had examples so I could see what is going on for other people. This is not to say that localized hotzones or deadspots may not affect things but that can't be tested for surface charge and hydrodynamic diameters. But now that the nanofluid bit is out of the equation, I wonder if the dyes may have broken down. I do not have those dyes or fluids here although I can hit up Brian and Mick and see if they can help. In the meantime, can you confirm this is the dye you are using: https://mayhems.co.uk/dyes/standard-dyes/orange-10ml/? I can look up the MSDS and get more info on the composition of the dye which will help get more info. I can't recreate your loop either as I don't have those exact parts, but the material composition can be substituted with and I do have that exact rad. 

 

Edit: What particulates are you referring to here?

[JayzTwoCents]

Yes, that is the same dye I used in the PC Clear fluid. 

 

Im referring to whatever is turning the fluid/dye brown. I assume its a particle of some sort no? I wish I paid more attention in chemistry

[OddsCrazyStuff]

3 minutes ago, JayzTwoCents said:

Im referring to whatever is turning the fluid/dye brown. I assume its a particle of some sort no? I wish I paid more attention in chemistry

Have you checked the quality of the nickel plating lately? That can be part of the problem.

Also, did the color changes come before or after PETG?

 

Just trying to think off all the things that can add to the problem, as all the parts by them self have sold in too big quantity's for us not to have heard about it more often.

[Pilo]

It would interest me, if the color shifted fluid has a different pH value than the fresh fluid + dye. Litmus paper isn't expensive, easy to use and fast.

But overall, the only way to figure out what makes the color change is to analyse the changed fluid and its additives itself and that's way more complicated.

[VSG]

Ok, this is the MSDS for the Mayhems Orange dye: https://mayhems.co.uk/files/msds-sheets/Dyes/Orange-Additive.pdf

 

This is the dye chemical used (Direct Orange 39, C₁₃H₁₃N₃):

 

It is stable till very high temperatures, well beyond anything a coolant loop will experience even with hotspots and its solubility in water increases at higher temps. As itself, I don't think temperature did much here but let's see.

 

[KWelz]

This thread is amazing.   I love seeing so much Liquid cooling knowledge in one place. 

 

[HWLABS]

Alright here's an update.

There was actually Pastel previously in the loop that also suffered from discoloration but to my understanding all these were already part of an existing build that's has had the NEMESIS radiators installed for a long time.

 

If it was a flux residue issue it would have precipitated immediately and not take this much time to manifest.

The breakdown of the dispersion is the likely suspect in this situation, and the leftover residue contaminating the new coolant.

A thorough flush would be recommended when switching from one coolant to another.

From the information we have so far, it is likely a coolant issue.

[KWelz]

7 hours ago, HWLABS said:

Alright here's an update.

There was actually Pastel previously in the loop that also suffered from discoloration but to my understanding all these were already part of an existing build that's has had the NEMESIS radiators installed for a long time.

 

If it was a flux residue issue it would have precipitated immediately and not take this much time to manifest.

The breakdown of the dispersion is the likely suspect in this situation, and the leftover residue contaminating the new coolant.

A thorough flush would be recommended when switching from one coolant to another.

From the information we have so far, it is likely a coolant issue.

 

If it is indeed a coolant issue related to contamination from the original pastel, would it ever be possible to reuse a radiator.   What ssteps would have to be taken to make them safe to use again

[HWLABS]

1 minute ago, KWelz said:

 

If it is indeed a coolant issue related to contamination from the original pastel, would it ever be possible to reuse a radiator.   What ssteps would have to be taken to make them safe to use again

Yes, just flush the radiator thoroughly with a light phosphoric acid wash (or vinegar), and continually flush it with clean water.

There is nothing between the brass surfaces and tin solder that would cause those things to happen.  Supposing there is flux residue, at least the Black Ice NEMESIS rads, it will not cause discoloration.  A contaminated radiator will make itself obvious during your first use, not long after its been run and installed.

[KWelz]

Thank you for the information.   This thread has been extremely informative.  I look forward to seeing how this all gets resolved.  It is a very interesting situation.   

 

But I guess when it comes down to it, we really are still in the early days of water cooling and things like this will happen. 

[HWLABS]

We've been building PC radiators for over 15 years longer than any company.

The sources of contamination are fairly finite.  What is relatively recent are the introduction of "exotic" coolants which are unlikely to be recommended for mission critical applications.