Restarting an old build... needs a refresh

[xXDeltaXx]

I'm finally getting back to this build after a long time of it being a secondary project... Ivy-E is out now and I'm after a bit of sanity checking / parts advice. I know it's a bit of a weird one, so the sanity check parts may or may not be valid at times

 

For the moment, the main aspect of this topic is to tie down the parts to enough of a degree to finish off the design on my case - from that, the rest of the build can progress.

 

1. Budget & Location
The budget is fluid at the moment - I know some aspects are going to cost a lot, where as some can be chosen on a cost / performance basis. My location is in the UK.

2. Aim
The system is to take over my current rig - both a gaming and CAD system.

Gaming is to be the latest and greatest at max settings (something we all want ). The games are generally going to be FPS with all the bells and whistles cranked up full; Farcry 3, Sleeping Dogs, GTA V (if and when it comes to PC), etc.

CAD is to be both drawing and 3D rendering with Solidworks for the moment, but will hopefully spread to other software.

3. Monitors
I plan on running 3 monitors in surround plus a 4th for accessories or lightweight CAD programs. Not sure on the resolutions as of yet - aiming for 1080p on all 4 monitors, possibly higher on the surround screens, screen size to be larger than the current 1920x1080 23" screen I'm currently using; although, this may end up being the 4th monitor as it'll do 120hz and is 3D rated.

4. Peripherals
It is going to be a Windows 7 based rig (have got this already), monitors, keyboard, and mouse will need purchasing.

5. Why are you upgrading?
The current rig is 6 / 7plus years old and has had to be overclocked from 2.66GHz to 3.6GHz to make it still viable - it's just old and I'm in need of an update.

 

Below is a bit more of an insite to the (in)sanity behind the build - I've copied it from the post I just made on the original thread from another forum...

With Ivy-E releasing for socket 2011, and funds starting to become available... I'm in need of refreshing my plans for my new PC - tie down the hardware and I can get my case design finished.

The original plan was for a Gigabyte UD9 on X58 - yeah, that's when this plan originally surfaced.
That then revised to a socket 2011 board with 7x PCIE x16 physical slots - ASRock Extreme 11; with it's ability to run x16/x8/x8/x8/x8/x8/x8. I briefly looked at the MSI Bigbang 2... but that just sucks in specs (1 x16, 3 x8 and 3 x1)
But, now with Ivy-E coming out, I'm hoping for new boards - the Extreme 11 is still a possibility, but the EVGA X79 Dark (5 x PCIe x16/x8, 1 x PCIe x4), or the ASUS P9X79-E WS (x16/x8/x8/x8/x16/x8/x8) are also looking promising.

Any thoughts on a beasty Socket 2011 board with many PCIe slots?


The rig is to replace my current, aging rig (6 / 7 plus years old), and has two main purposes: Gaming (latest and greatest on multi monitor - maybe even 3D) & CAD (both drawing and rendering - Solidworks at the moment). It is also to last as long as possible (love to get 6 / 7 years out of it), as such, I'm aiming for the best possible parts to try and keep a good level of performance for a long time.

Parts plus thoughts / reasons:
Motherboard: Unknown... Extreme 11 (original choice) / X79 Dark (slightly less connectivity than the other two) / P9X79-E WS (best PCIe distribution, poor colour scheme, workstation board...)
CPU: Not decided as of yet...
RAM: Not decided as of yet... 16GB possibly higher if I look more into RAM drives...
GPU (Gaming): GTX770 / GTX780 - two or three of them, possibly one used for dedicated PhysX...
GPU (CAD): Quadro GPU... I've heard of issues with driver compatability between Geforce and Quadro on the same PC, so it may have to be a dual boot system; set towards Gaming or CAD. One of Linus' WAN shows mentioned that Dezel is going to have a system with one of each - so I'm waiting on that implementation.
RAID card: Areca 1880 card with support for eight HDDs in RAID 5 or RAID 6 (The build has been in the planning so long, so, I need a refresh my research)
Sound Card: ASUS Xonar (The build has been in the planning so long, the bookmark doesn't work now - so, again, I need a refresh on the choice)
TV Card: ASUS My Cinema (The build has been in the planning so long, the bookmark doesn't work now - so, again, I need a refresh on the choice)
Depending upon the card choices, a PCIe X4 to 4x PCIe x1 slots for the TV and Sound cards... yes, this may introduce issues or latency...
Storage (SSD): two or four drives - probably in RAID
Storage (HDD): eight WD drives - originally was going to be REDs, but need to check if the five or six drive limit is just on the enclosure; or on the total drive count in the array. Intending to have them in two banks of four...
There will be other parts in there, but they kind of depend on the above parts...

Space for the parts isn't going to be an issue - shall be implementing flexible riser cards for the PCIe slots; these feed two banks of 12 slots on the case.
Yes, there will probably be some latency on these cables... but, I have done some benchmarks with existing cables on this rig, and they don't have that much effect. This is an old system (socket 775 board + GTX470), I do realise that the effect may be more noticeable on a new system - especially if the motherboard is using PLX chips.
Software / benchmarks used: Crysis Benchmark (3 run setting), Mafia II Benchmark (3 separate runs), Metro 2033 Benchmark (3 run setting), FluidMark (3 separate runs), Heaven Benchmark (3 separate runs), 3D Mark 06, GPU-Z & CUDA-Z.

The build will start on air, but then migrate accross to liquid cooling at a later stage.

There's probably more to add.. but it's been a while since I put deep thought into it - will add as things come back to me / questions or comments get added

[helping]

- I would probably go towards the X79 Dark, it's looking pretty good, but I think you should be good with a majority of your options.

-Have you considered using Titans instead? Two or three of those might be a much better compromise than designated GTX and Quadro cards.

-SSD's in RAID isn't really that worth it IMO. At most I would do RAID 0 with two SSD's and keep the rest standalone allocated for programs, specific files etc. With 4 or more SSD's in RAID 0 you're also greatly multiplying rate of failure without significant benefit unless you do 0 + 1 for redundancy.

 

@WoodenMarker can also probably commentate about something having to do with limited data rate benefits of SSD raid.

 

-It's possible that you might not need that soundcard, but your budget seems big enough for one to be negligible so yolo.

 

-Be sure when you do run your RAID card that you make certain it has adequate cooling, those things get toasty.

[xXDeltaXx]

Yeah... sorry for the wall of text... (nicely illustrated BTW)

 

You can game on Gforce cards with no issue, but you cannot get full Solidworks functionality unless you have a 'compatible' card (Quadro). But, you cannot get good gaming performance on Quadro cards...

So, overall, Geforce is the better option; if I have to only have one type... but, that's the reason I want both.

 

I was wondering about 0+1 for the SSDs, but wasn't sure of the viability of that... I guess it depends upon the amount of 'native'(?) SATA 6GBs ports available - if there's only two, that kind of gives the answer

 

The main reason for the sound card is that I'm intending to link the PC back to my AV amp (also the reason for the TV card) - so, you have the normal 5.1 out, plus line in, plus mic and headphone; most onboard doesn't have the functionality... also, I've had issues with onboard not providing clarity before when using Ventrillo. So, yeah, may not be needed - but is justifyable

 

The RAID card is intended to have a spare PCIe slot on either side of it plus direct airflow through the case towards it. When the system gets watercooled, I've been toying with attempting to stick a block on the RAID card :rolleyes:

[WoodenMarker]

You can game on Gforce cards with no issue, but you cannot get full Solidworks functionality unless you have a 'compatible' card (Quadro). But, you cannot get good gaming performance on Quadro cards...

So, overall, Geforce is the better option; if I have to only have one type... but, that's the reason I want both.

 

I was wondering about 0+1 for the SSDs, but wasn't sure of the viability of that... I guess it depends upon the amount of 'native'(?) SATA 6GBs ports available - if there's only two, that kind of gives the answer

 

The main reason for the sound card is that I'm intending to link the PC back to my AV amp (also the reason for the TV card) - so, you have the normal 5.1 out, plus line in, plus mic and headphone; most onboard doesn't have the functionality... also, I've had issues with onboard not providing clarity before when using Ventrillo. So, yeah, may not be needed - but is justifyable

 

The RAID card is intended to have a spare PCIe slot on either side of it plus direct airflow through the case towards it. When the system gets watercooled, I've been toying with attempting to stick a block on the RAID card :rolleyes:

Just get a Titan for a hybrid workstation gaming card.

There's little point raiding ssds unless you're pouring massive renders out. What makes a ssd fast is the random read speed and memory controller. Raid 0 only increases sequential transfer speeds so a ssd raid may end up even slower than a single drive.

As for the hdds--a simple onboard raid 1 would be cheaper and would do if you need data security. If you need absolutely massive storage, an offsite NAS would be better. 

 

Are you doing work professionally? If rendering quickly and time is of the essence, then LGA 2011 sounds ideal. If not, then a 4770k should do the job pretty well without having to spend so much. It's generally better to not get the highest end setup and get mid-range to high end instead because it's a better value and you can use the money you would've otherwise spent on more effective upgrades.

 

Fyi, you need to quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them.

[xXDeltaXx]

Just get a Titan for a hybrid workstation gaming card.

There's little point raiding ssds unless you're pouring massive renders out. What makes a ssd fast is the random read speed and memory controller. Raid 0 only increases sequential transfer speeds so a ssd raid may end up even slower than a single drive.

As for the hdds--a simple onboard raid 1 would be cheaper and would do if you need data security. If you need absolutely massive storage, an offsite NAS would be better. 

 

Are you doing work professionally? If rendering quickly and time is of the essence, then LGA 2011 sounds ideal. If not, then a 4770k should do the job pretty well without having to spend so much. It's generally better to not get the highest end setup and get mid-range to high end instead because it's a better value and you can use the money you would've otherwise spent on more effective upgrades.

 

Fyi, you need to quote a post or tag a member or else they won't get a notification you replied to them.

 

Duly noted about the tag, cheers.

 

@helping - forgot to quote / tag you in my response... :rolleyes:

 

A Titan wouldn't help with the CAD aspect I'm looking for... the Geforce cards are 'not supported' - thus aspects of Solidworks (and other CAD software?) are locked out. So, even if I had a crazy 4 way SLI'd Titan setup, it wouldn't fully enable the software... it has to be a Quadro or AMD equivalent.

 

I take you're point about SSDs - I'm not really clued up on them...

The HDDs - I'm not sure. I already have a NAS setup, but it'd not be capable for storing all of my games / applications etc - so it'd be a new NAS plus HDDS, if I go that route.

The thought behind the internal config went as follows: RAID 0 has better speed, but has inherent flaws - so it'd make sense to go for RAID 0+1. But capacity plus organization of content, would probably push me to two RAID 0+1 arrays... which is quite excessive. So, that then turned to RAID 5 or RAID 6 with the same eight drives - has speed, redundancy and better capacity than 0+1. That was the thinking behind it... but I'm more than happy to be corrected / educated on this

 

The work is amateur at the moment, but it is the career path I'm aiming to take - so that's where I'm looking.

LGA 2011 was chosen because of the available PCIe bandwidth for the parts I am intending to install. That is not to say that it is the best option, only the best I could find in discussion with other members of other forums. Another option has been suggested - ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS (dual socket workstation board) - but, I'm not sure...

[WoodenMarker]

A Titan wouldn't help with the CAD aspect I'm looking for... the Geforce cards are 'not supported' - thus aspects of Solidworks (and other CAD software?) are locked out. So, even if I had a crazy 4 way SLI'd Titan setup, it wouldn't fully enable the software... it has to be a Quadro or AMD equivalent.

 

I take you're point about SSDs - I'm not really clued up on them...

The HDDs - I'm not sure. I already have a NAS setup, but it'd not be capable for storing all of my games / applications etc - so it'd be a new NAS plus HDDS, if I go that route.

The thought behind the internal config went as follows: RAID 0 has better speed, but has inherent flaws - so it'd make sense to go for RAID 0+1. But capacity plus organization of content, would probably push me to two RAID 0+1 arrays... which is quite excessive. So, that then turned to RAID 5 or RAID 6 with the same eight drives - has speed, redundancy and better capacity than 0+1. That was the thinking behind it... but I'm more than happy to be corrected / educated on this

 

The work is amateur at the moment, but it is the career path I'm aiming to take - so that's where I'm looking.

LGA 2011 was chosen because of the available PCIe bandwidth for the parts I am intending to install. That is not to say that it is the best option, only the best I could find in discussion with other members of other forums. Another option has been suggested - ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS (dual socket workstation board) - but, I'm not sure...

You're probably better off spending less money on the cpu and getting a nice quadro instead then.

How much storage are you shooting for and what kind of stuff are you putting on it? 

[xXDeltaXx]

You're probably better off spending less money on the cpu and getting a nice quadro instead then.

How much storage are you shooting for and what kind of stuff are you putting on it? 

 

That's where the issue with games not running well on Quadro cards comes in... so I guess it comes down to a couple of options:

- Two separate PCs in one case (one for Gaming and one for CAD)

- A dual boot system on one PC (one using the Geforce and one using the Quadro)

- A work around to have both installed on a single instance of Windows - without them conflicting...

@[member=dezeltheintern] - any news on that project mentioned in a previous WAN show (Quadro and a Geforce in the same machine)...? Has linus sprung for the other card yet? 

Hence wanting to ensure I've got the parts tied down before I finish this case - if it ends up being two motherboards; it'll be a total redesign.

 

As for storage... not 100% sure. Steam library is likely to keep increasing, so I'm allowing 1.5 to 2TB just for that. The CAD software doesn't take up too much room, but I'm using 3 types at the moment (Solidworks being mentioned as it's the comparative resource hog), say 1TB for those, their updates, templates, etc. Plus a couple more TB which I can fill into as and when I need it (non-Steam games, other applications, etc). So, I guess that makes about 5 or 6TB.

[WoodenMarker]

That's where the issue with games not running well on Quadro cards comes in... so I guess it comes down to a couple of options:

- Two separate PCs in one case (one for Gaming and one for CAD)

- A dual boot system on one PC (one using the Geforce and one using the Quadro)

- A work around to have both installed on a single instance of Windows - without them conflicting...

@dezeltheintern - any news on that project mentioned in a previous WAN show (Quadro and a Geforce in the same machine)...? Has linus sprung for the other card yet? 

Hence wanting to ensure I've got the parts tied down before I finish this case - if it ends up being two motherboards; it'll be a total redesign.

 

As for storage... not 100% sure. Steam library is likely to keep increasing, so I'm allowing 1.5 to 2TB just for that. The CAD software doesn't take up too much room, but I'm using 3 types at the moment (Solidworks being mentioned as it's the comparative resource hog), say 1TB for those, their updates, templates, etc. Plus a couple more TB which I can fill into as and when I need it (non-Steam games, other applications, etc). So, I guess that makes about 5 or 6TB.

If you really need a solid system for both Gaming AND CAD, two separate systems would be recommended unless you want to be physically swapping the cards. You can't have video output and use a secondary GPU in the system since the primary GPU will be driving the display.