Choice of education program for game development

[Claryn]

Hi.

 

I am currently in my final year of the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme (IB), which is a 2 year high-school program that is supposed to prepare the students for university.

One of my higher level subjects is Computer Science, with the optional focus on OOP in Java.

I have applied to some universities and received some offers. Now I just need to figure out the best route to get into my dream position.

 

So let's set things straight:

I am from Norway but I have always had the intention of studying abroad. That is basically why I chose to do the IB instead of the traditional Norwegian High School program. 

I have a huge passion for video games and programming, and I really want to became a living out of the combination of those two things. With that said, I would not have any problem with working in a larger studio, as a game developer, for some years and getting some experience. However, the optimal position would be where I am part of a smaller team (<50), mainly working as a developer, but also got a hand in the actual design of the game. 

 

Currently I'd say I master the basics of Java quite well. Stuff like arrays, abstract data structures like linked lists and binary trees, gui, nested looping etc., and I am still trying to grasp and fully understand the concept of OOP.

I have made small programs like a digital version of the card game Cards Against Humanity, a lot of calculators with the possibility for more advanced calculations, and some programs for converting between systems like decimal to binary to hex etc. 

I am by no means an expert programmer, but I know the basics and I am able to make some intermediate programs atm. 

Within game design I have little experience. Mostly what I have done is making some tweaks to some board games I like (Betrayal in the house on the hill!!!!!) and made some ideas for board games that I never had the time to test out.

 

So the offers I have right now are:

- A four year Bachelor in BSc Computer Science at the University of St. Andrews. Currently ranked as the #1 Computer Science Uni in the UK.

- A three year Bachelor in BSc Computer Science at the University of Essex. 

- A three year Bachelor in BSc Computer Games at the University of Essex.

All of the above options are available with a 'sandwich', placement-year-in-industry.

- A five year integrated Master in MSc Computer Science at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, where the two last years can be narrowed down to Software -> Interaction Design & Game Technology (All the optional routes for the 2 last years are available on the program's site)

 

Now what I need some input on is:

1. Whether I should go for a Computer Games program, or a regular Computer Science program.

2. Whether the integrated Master in CS is more optimal, because it involved maths at engineering level, and in the end gives me the proper title of "sivilingeniør".

3. Should I mainly focus on Computer Science and IT while studying, or would it be a good idea to have a lot of game-projects and internships in game studios?

 

What are your thoughts? What would be the best way to go?

 

[Claryn]

As a quick add-on:
What do you think I should focus on next? Improve my efficiency in Java or learn something new? How and why?

[Whorax]

I can only answer the first question.

 

Get a CS degree instead. You can do much more things with it once you come to the realization that video game development isn't as cool as it may seem on the outside and you can't get a job because demand isn't through the roof for people that can make games, which is just about the exact opposite for computer scientists. The world wants computer scientists right now.

[MSVSora]

Personally I went to an yrkeshögskola called "The Game Assembly" in Sweden, if you want to work in anything outside of games its pretty useless as you don't really get much of a degree but it does help you get into the games industry. Last I checked about 96% of its graduates are currently working in the game industry the majority of which work at Ubisoft as far as I am aware. If you are really interested in getting into game development I would recommend checking it out http://www.thegameassembly.com/ but as Whorax said, its not always as cool as it may seem, so you need to be really sure its what you want to do with your life. Good Luck to you either way

[Gachr]

I'd choose the Computer Games course. It's more specific, so it will be easier, even tho less universal than Computer Science. You should watch some videos about developing games in Unity for example, so you can get an idea of how it looks like.

I'm afraid that there aren't many popular engines that use Java.

Also, this is a good read: https://backchannel.com/war-stories-the-reality-of-aaa-games-development-a70178d7cf1c#.yysgq03bh

[Claryn]

21 minutes ago, Gachr said:

I'd choose the Computer Games course. It's more specific, so it will be easier, even tho less universal than Computer Science. You should watch some videos about developing games in Unity for example, so you can get an idea of how it looks like.

I'm afraid that there aren't many popular engines that use Java.

Also, this is a good read: https://backchannel.com/war-stories-the-reality-of-aaa-games-development-a70178d7cf1c#.yysgq03bh

I don't care if it is 'easier'. I enjoy maths and heavy science-subjects. It has never been something I have struggled with a lot. The story looks interesting, I'll check it out. Thank you for the input!

[mrkillius24]

lwgl, and libgdx should be your best stops for java game programming.

 

And honestly computer science degree would be more useful

[vorticalbox]

On 01/03/2016 at 3:52 PM, Claryn said:

I don't care if it is 'easier'. I enjoy maths and heavy science-subjects. It has never been something I have struggled with a lot. The story looks interesting, I'll check it out. Thank you for the input!

I am currently doing year 3 computer science at UWS, subjects i am doing this year

 

Web services, creating a web service in any language

Operating Systems, CPU scheduling, memory management, dead lock avoidance (I picked this over windows Admin)

Professional computing issues, ethics and more ethics

Database applications, sql server theory about views, EER and all that good stuff

Data security, basically have to go into a small company and do a security audit and write a report.

Study project, do what you want and write a report.

 

I highly suggest looking at the units because computer science is don't really focused towards game development. you'll likely want 3D modelling.

[Claryn]

2 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

I am currently doing year 3 computer science at UWS, subjects i am doing this year

 

Web services, creating a web service in any language

Operating Systems, CPU scheduling, memory management, dead lock avoidance (I picked this over windows Admin)

Professional computing issues, ethics and more ethics

Database applications, sql server theory about views, EER and all that good stuff

Data security, basically have to go into a small company and do a security audit and write a report.

Study project, do what you want and write a report.

 

I highly suggest looking at the units because computer science is don't really focused towards game development. you'll likely want 3D modelling.

Why would I want 3d modeling? I am not going to sit and model figures and sculptures in Maya or Blender. I am interesting in the programming and back-end development. 

[Cr3at1v3]

To be a proficient programmer you should have a good arsenal of skill is various languages, what you know out of collage usually is 5-10% of one language (JAVA for example) what you'll need in the real world and you should learn a lot of languages as you go along. I'd go with computer science if I was you, because what "Game development" colleges can offer is only easier internships, but you get a narrow view of the big picture and there are more reassuring ways to "get the job", like finished projects.

 

My advice - Don't just try to learn a language make a project out of it.

Here's a list what I suggest you should do in the next 5-7 years (not a bootcamp, just for reference) to be a proficient software developer, with an example project and what you'll learn by doing it.

 

In no particular order, but some depend on others:

• Make simple website using barbone.js/require.js/handlebars (HTML and JavaScript is easy to learn fast)
• Make an Android app (Android is mostly Java to learn more of what you think you know now, learn Groovy to make build scripts and Gradle plugins on the way)
• Make a login capable website with Play2 framework (use Scala and Hibernate for database access, maybe some Server side templating framework like JSF).'
• Make a mini game (just simple blocks jumping around is enough) using Unity game engine (writing  scripts in C# and some initial game development along the way. But don't start from this because your first game is going to be crap, trust me, and even after more experience you gain it's still gonna be crap. Maybe 3rd 4th is going to be ok)
• Make an android app incorporating RenderScript (thats mostly C++ syntax, good to know) maybe a simple card game or something.
• Write an add-on for SickBeard or similar to learn Python (need to do this myself Python is a valuable language to know, rarely used in enterprise though). There are many advantages to learn Python, maybe not for development but at least to edit written code to fix something.

 

For game development from theoretical point of view I'm subscribed to "Extra Credits" on youtube, they are awesome.

If you'd search for "Brackeys" on youtube, he's got some good tutorials for 2D and 3D game development tutorials on Unity.

 

Most important point I'm making here, finished projects (emphasis on finished) on your resume are what will get you to work for studios like Ubisoft or alike or Indie development, ahead of anyone from "Game development" college.

 

My background: 6 years as an enterprise software developer.

 

[Gachr]

16 hours ago, Claryn said:

Why would I want 3d modeling? I am not going to sit and model figures and sculptures in Maya or Blender. I am interesting in the programming and back-end development. 

Engines nowdays made it so easy to script even for non-programming people, that I think most programming jobs in gamedev would be quite low level - engine making and such.

[MSVSora]

59 minutes ago, Gachr said:

Engines nowdays made it so easy to script even for non-programming people, that I think most programming jobs in gamedev would be quite low level - engine making and such.

Indie games aside, there are a lot of programming jobs involving the games as well, gameplay, AI, Audio, Animation(though that is usually more on the engine side of things), Physics (again towards the engine side), Network, UI, Online, Mobile the list goes on. The larger the game the more you will find programmers working directly with the game rather than just the engine. It is a huge industry and a lot of companies have a lot of different workflows so I don't see why it would be any issue for him to want to focus on just the programming of games

[Claryn]

8 hours ago, Gachr said:

Engines nowdays made it so easy to script even for non-programming people, that I think most programming jobs in gamedev would be quite low level - engine making and such.

 

7 hours ago, MSVSora said:

Indie games aside, there are a lot of programming jobs involving the games as well, gameplay, AI, Audio, Animation(though that is usually more on the engine side of things), Physics (again towards the engine side), Network, UI, Online, Mobile the list goes on. The larger the game the more you will find programmers working directly with the game rather than just the engine. It is a huge industry and a lot of companies have a lot of different workflows so I don't see why it would be any issue for him to want to focus on just the programming of games

Indeed, but al of these things include programming, and not sculpting figures in Maya or Blender. I understand that I will want have to work with more than back-end development, and I said I -wanted- to also do stuff like design, gameplay programming/scripting, UI programming etc., but none of that can be compared to 3d-modelling, as I would classify that to be a form of art. I have no intention of learning to model or draw anything. That will be up to the artists. 

[Claryn]

With some more research, I am starting to appreciate the more diverse education. I am very sure that it will be a pure Computer Science degree and not a Computer Games degree. Now I just need to decide between St. Andrews and Norwegian University of Science and Technology.

 

The master includes more advanced mathematics and more diverse Computer Science, while it seems St. Andrews only focuses on programming. 

[mathijs727]

I'd personally do the Computer Science bachelor and then make the choice for a master afterwards. If you do the bachelor you are free to choose any related master, even from other universities.

 

Im currently in my third year of a Computer Science bachelor. In my country there is one university that offers a game technology bachelor/master. Altough I enjoy graphics programming I think that choosing it as a master is a bad idea. The gaming industry doesnt many (junior) jobs for offer. Going indie is a big risk financially and personally not my thing (I like AAA titles with state of the art graphics). Being a game programmer is hard work and it requires >8 hour days, especially when nearing a release.

[Claryn]

47 minutes ago, mathijs727 said:

I'd personally do the Computer Science bachelor and then make the choice for a master afterwards. If you do the bachelor you are free to choose any related master, even from other universities.

 

Im currently in my third year of a Computer Science bachelor. In my country there is one university that offers a game technology bachelor/master. Altough I enjoy graphics programming I think that choosing it as a master is a bad idea. The gaming industry doesnt many (junior) jobs for offer. Going indie is a big risk financially and personally not my thing (I like AAA titles with state of the art graphics). Being a game programmer is hard work and it requires >8 hour days, especially when nearing a release.

It would be a Master in Computer Science, not game development. I would just choose to have the optional-modules in the direction of graphics and other stuff that is relevant for developing games. 

I also have the option to go for a bachelor in Computer Science at the Norwegian university. So what it comes down to right now is one of these options:
 

1. Master in Norway

2. Bachelor in Norway

2. Bachelor at St. Andrews

 

I understand your point on AAA vs indie, and I agree. My plan would be to work some years in a AAA studio where you have the financial security, benefits etc. When I have the experience and the savings/economic security to do so, I could move into an indie studio or a smaller studio that I would find to be more interesting.

I would haven no problem working in a AAA studio or a software development company, but I wouldn't be satisfied with doing that for 40 years. Or who knows, maybe that is what I figure out I wanna do - but I have to try it out first. I am clear on getting a diverse Computer Science degree and not a game development degree. I now just need to figure out how and where :).