2 similar builds, any recommendations?

[zylx]

Greetings from Poland!

I'm about to build two new systems, and I will be grateful for any advice. My budget is about 4000 polish złoty (PLN),which is ~1000 $USD . Both systems will be used as personal rigs, mainly to browse Internet,  watch moves, play games (CS:GO), and do Office related job. Only differences between systems, is that one have to be small factor.

 

Small factor build:

Case:	Cooler Master ITX MINI ELITE 130	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI	599 PLN (~172 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	COOLER MASTER SEIDON 120V REV. 2 + NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM	210 PLN (~53,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

ATX:

Case:	SilentiumPC Gladius M35	189 PLN (~48 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	Asrock Z170 Extreme4 ATX	605 PLN (~153,6 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	Be-Quiet Be Quiet Cpu Cooler Dark Rock 3	265 PLN (~67,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

Have any advice?

[astranger200]

4 minutes ago, zylx said:

Greetings from Poland!

I'm about to build two new systems, and I will be grateful for any advice. My budget is about 4000 polish złoty (PLN),which is ~1000 $USD . Both systems will be used as personal rigs, mainly to browse Internet,  watch moves, play games (CS:GO), and do Office related job. Only differences between systems, is that one have to be small factor.

 

Small factor build:

Case:	Cooler Master ITX MINI ELITE 130	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI	599 PLN (~172 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	COOLER MASTER SEIDON 120V REV. 2 + NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM	210 PLN (~53,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

ATX:

Case:	SilentiumPC Gladius M35	189 PLN (~48 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	Asrock Z170 Extreme4 ATX	605 PLN (~153,6 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	Be-Quiet Be Quiet Cpu Cooler Dark Rock 3	265 PLN (~67,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

Have any advice?

get a better psu for both please.... something like a evga gs, corsair rmi or a xfx...

also, r9 390s are better than a 970 for the same price

 

[VinZie]

5 minutes ago, zylx said:

Greetings from Poland!

I'm about to build two new systems, and I will be grateful for any advice. My budget is about 4000 polish złoty (PLN),which is ~1000 $USD . Both systems will be used as personal rigs, mainly to browse Internet,  watch moves, play games (CS:GO), and do Office related job. Only differences between systems, is that one have to be small factor.

 

Small factor build:

Case:	Cooler Master ITX MINI ELITE 130	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI	599 PLN (~172 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	COOLER MASTER SEIDON 120V REV. 2 + NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM	210 PLN (~53,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

ATX:

Case:	SilentiumPC Gladius M35	189 PLN (~48 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	Asrock Z170 Extreme4 ATX	605 PLN (~153,6 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	Be-Quiet Be Quiet Cpu Cooler Dark Rock 3	265 PLN (~67,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

Have any advice?

Lets go with Linus Formula. Price to Preformance

 

I would go with the first build.

[astranger200]

6 minutes ago, VinZie said:

Lets go with Linus Formula. Price to Preformance

 

I would go with the first build.

he is building both...

[Starelementpoke]

20 minutes ago, zylx said:

Greetings from Poland!

I'm about to build two new systems, and I will be grateful for any advice. My budget is about 4000 polish złoty (PLN),which is ~1000 $USD . Both systems will be used as personal rigs, mainly to browse Internet,  watch moves, play games (CS:GO), and do Office related job. Only differences between systems, is that one have to be small factor.

 

Small factor build:

Case:	Cooler Master ITX MINI ELITE 130	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI	599 PLN (~172 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	COOLER MASTER SEIDON 120V REV. 2 + NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM	210 PLN (~53,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

ATX:

Case:	SilentiumPC Gladius M35	189 PLN (~48 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	Asrock Z170 Extreme4 ATX	605 PLN (~153,6 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	Be-Quiet Be Quiet Cpu Cooler Dark Rock 3	265 PLN (~67,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

Have any advice?

Better psu. 390 over 970 unless you need cuda, or power costs alot where you live.

[brob]

A better psu would be adviseable. Seasonic has some good non-modular OEM units. Look for something that is 80+ Bronze rated or better.

 

A 2x4GB memory kit would be better, especially for the ATX build. Check pricing on DDR4-2400 CL 15 memory. If G.Skill is available, they have an NT line that is usually well priced.

[SydneySideSteveSomewheres]

1 hour ago, zylx said:

Greetings from Poland!

I'm about to build two new systems, and I will be grateful for any advice. My budget is about 4000 polish złoty (PLN),which is ~1000 $USD . Both systems will be used as personal rigs, mainly to browse Internet,  watch moves, play games (CS:GO), and do Office related job. Only differences between systems, is that one have to be small factor.

 

Small factor build:

Case:	Cooler Master ITX MINI ELITE 130	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI	599 PLN (~172 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	COOLER MASTER SEIDON 120V REV. 2 + NOCTUA NF-F12 PWM	210 PLN (~53,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

ATX:

Case:	SilentiumPC Gladius M35	189 PLN (~48 $USD)
PSU	Corsair VS Series 450W 80PLUS 120mm FAN	169 PLN (~42,9 $USD)
SSD	Crucial BX200 240GB	285 PLN (~72,4 $USD)
GPU	EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC ACX 2.0+	1 499 PLN (~380,5 $USD)
Mobo	Asrock Z170 Extreme4 ATX	605 PLN (~153,6 $USD)
CPU	i5-6600K	1 045 PLN (~265,3 $USD)
Cooler	Be-Quiet Be Quiet Cpu Cooler Dark Rock 3	265 PLN (~67,3 $USD)
RAM	Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB DDR4 2133MHz CL14	155 PLN (~39,4 $USD)

 

 

Have any advice?

 

A question about the motherboard selections;

They both have on-board video support and you are planning to install graphics cards, it is only possible to utilise one or the other, why?

 

Could you add a second fan to the Dark Rock 3 for a push-pull configuration for even slower fan speed and noise reduction. Did not see it in the specifications but the mount seems proprietary?

 

Also if the Gladius M35 has a window you may get tired of looking at those non-modual cables of the Corsair VS450?

[ic3panda]

get a better psu. as linus say before. psu is one of the two things that can be future proof. one good modular psu can last you lots of years.

[zylx]

On 23.02.2016 at 1:45 AM, astranger200 said:

get a better psu for both please.... something like a evga gs, corsair rmi or a xfx...

also, r9 390s are better than a 970 for the same price

 

On 23.02.2016 at 1:59 AM, Starelementpoke said:

Better psu. 390 over 970 unless you need cuda, or power costs alot where you live.

On 23.02.2016 at 3:46 AM, ic3panda said:

get a better psu. as linus say before. psu is one of the two things that can be future proof. one good modular psu can last you lots of years.

On 23.02.2016 at 3:46 AM, ic3panda said:

get a better psu. as linus say before. psu is one of the two things that can be future proof. one good modular psu can last you lots of years.

Thank you for all advices and sorry for such delay in response. I was thinking about better PSU from the beginning, but my budget limitations force me to find something cheaper. My thinking was that this will consume something like 280W after OC, so I have plenty reserve, especially that 450W corsair i proposed is really  in good price. However, i will find something slightly better.

 

R9 390 is not an option to me. I will be running Linux on one of the systems and Linux Radeon driver is crap. 

 

On 23.02.2016 at 2:42 AM, brob said:

A better psu would be adviseable. Seasonic has some good non-modular OEM units. Look for something that is 80+ Bronze rated or better.

 

A 2x4GB memory kit would be better, especially for the ATX build. Check pricing on DDR4-2400 CL 15 memory. If G.Skill is available, they have an NT line that is usually well priced.

I will definitely go for 2x4GB for ATX build, but fo ITX i will by 1x8GB. Simply to have room for additional 8GB in the future. G-Skill are much more expensive. I will have to choose between Crucial (without rads) and Kingstone. 

On 23.02.2016 at 3:01 AM, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

 

A question about the motherboard selections;

They both have on-board video support and you are planning to install graphics cards, it is only possible to utilise one or the other, why?

 

Could you add a second fan to the Dark Rock 3 for a push-pull configuration for even slower fan speed and noise reduction. Did not see it in the specifications but the mount seems proprietary?

 

Also if the Gladius M35 has a window you may get tired of looking at those non-modual cables of the Corsair VS450?

Simply, there is no mobo with z170 without support for igpu. And you can utilise iGPU for Quick Sync encoding, OpenCL and stuff like that.

 

Yes, i could add another fun to Dark Rock 3, additional mounts are included in box.

Gladius M35 is windowless, but maybe I will add window in the future by myself. Looking at PSU cables isn't an problem, because M36 have full covered basement so no cables will be visible.

 

Last dilemma i have concerns mobo for mini ITX build. I can't find good comparison about z170 itx boards. I have to choose one from:

- GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI

- ASRock Z170M-ITX/AC

or, if it is a good reason, slightly more expensive 

- Asus Z170I Pro Gaming 

- MSI Z170I Gaming PRO AC

 

Which one i should choose and why? Which will be the best for stability, which for OC?

[SydneySideSteveSomewheres]

On 3/3/2016 at 5:08 AM, zylx said:

[-snip-]

 

Last dilemma i have concerns mobo for mini ITX build. I can't find good comparison about z170 itx boards. I have to choose one from:

- GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI

- ASRock Z170M-ITX/AC

or, if it is a good reason, slightly more expensive 

- Asus Z170I Pro Gaming 

- MSI Z170I Gaming PRO AC

 

Which one i should choose and why? Which will be the best for stability, which for OC?

 

Both the GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI and the ASRock Z170M-ITX/AC specs say they support a M.2 drive as the boot drive with the GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI having an actual M.2 slot on the rear of the motherboard. Which could mean to get the compatibility of a M.2 as the boot drive on the ASRock Z170M-ITX/AC may require sacrificing the PCIe 3.0 x16 slot?

 

The benefit of the M.2 drive as a boot device is the 32Gb/s, however the GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI M.2 qualified vendor list (QVL) -click here- is very specific. Meaning that if you find a cheap M.2 drive e.g. on fleabay, which is not on the QVL list (different key types are B, M, or B + M) the OS and BIOS will not find the device.

 

The GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI specs also state that you will have two SATA ports at 16Gb/s, however the drive attached to the port will only be capable of 6Gb/s READ or WRITE not both at the same time. To utilise more fully this BUS you may need to have two separate SSD's (or SSHD), one to READ at 6Gb/s, programs from (e.g. game maps)  another to WRITE at 6Gb/s to (e.g. in game saves) and the M.2 drive running / hosting the windowed full screen experience.

 

This changes your entry price point but more importantly IF you see this as a further upgrade down the road, as there is that type of overhead available here, your power consumption with the current PSU choice and therefore OC calculation figures too.

 

I did not look at the other two more expensive motherboards ?

[brob]

The GA-Z170N-WiFi, Z170I-Pro Gaming, and Z170I Gaming Pro motherboards have an M.2 connector on the underside of the motherboard that supports M.2 (M) drives (4-lane). Compatible ssd can run hot. Cooling is problematic and I suspect over time there could be motherboard degradation.

 

The best solution I have seen so far that allows 32Gb/s storage with mini-ITX is the U.2 connector on the Asus Maximus VIII Impact. Unfortunately only some Intel 750 drives currently support that interface.

 

Regardless, either U.2 or M.2(M) drives are not worth the impact on this build's budget.

 

But neither U.2 or M.2(M) fit in the budget for this build.

 

[SydneySideSteveSomewheres]

22 hours ago, brob said:

The GA-Z170N-WiFi, Z170I-Pro Gaming, and Z170I Gaming Pro motherboards have an M.2 connector on the underside of the motherboard that supports M.2 (M) drives (4-lane). Compatible ssd can run hot. Cooling is problematic and I suspect over time there could be motherboard degradation.

 

The best solution I have seen so far that allows 32Gb/s storage with mini-ITX is the U.2 connector on the Asus Maximus VIII Impact. Unfortunately only some Intel 750 drives currently support that interface.

 

Regardless, either U.2 or M.2(M) drives are not worth the impact on this build's budget.

 

But neither U.2 or M.2(M) fit in the budget for this build.

 

 

Whilst I do agree that the M.2 currently reviewed storage solutions have a tendency to be hot running in an enterprise environment therefore problematic as you mention. This may not equate if the device is used in the configuration that I outlined above. As simply the device would not be directly plugged into the higher voltage PCI slot, meaning less heat to dissipate, -Fourier Law of Heat Conduction see below-.

 

Combined with the ability to distribute the workload across numerous drives which allows the device to have non computational time, as when not working at 32Gb/s, and so running cooler.

One of the benefits of DDR4 memory is that the power consumption is down on previous DDR3 memory, thus making the whole computational process (the mean) from start-up to shut-down cooler and more thermally efficient.

 

Furthermore if the M.2 drive is only used for the OS a small capacity should be efficient which means even the Samsung SM951 128GB (PCIe NVMe - SM951 MZ-VPV1280) from the QVL as currently priced at $118.00 USD on newegg. Puts into view a future perspective upgrade path option and with memory prices always seeming to decrease not increase, really makes sense to consider as a potential money saving and equitable option.

[brob]

Heat is an issue with these drives in general but not terribly concerning when mounted on the upper side of a motherboard. On the other hand, when the drive is mounted on the underside of a motherboard, often just a 1mm or two above a steel motherboard tray heating becomes a concern. Many mini-ITX cases mount the motherboard horizontally. Heat rises, i.e. heat enters the motherboard.

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/samsung_950_pro_m_2_ssd_review,6.html

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-XP941-Plextor-PX-G256-M6e-M-2-Qualification-575/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9702/samsung-950-pro-ssd-review-256gb-512gb/2

 

[SydneySideSteveSomewheres]

12 minutes ago, brob said:

Heat is an issue with these drives in general but not terribly concerning when mounted on the upper side of a motherboard. On the other hand, when the drive is mounted on the underside of a motherboard, often just a 1mm or two above a steel motherboard tray heating becomes a concern. Many mini-ITX cases mount the motherboard horizontally. Heat rises, i.e. heat enters the motherboard.

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/samsung_950_pro_m_2_ssd_review,6.html

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Samsung-XP941-Plextor-PX-G256-M6e-M-2-Qualification-575/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9702/samsung-950-pro-ssd-review-256gb-512gb/2

 

 

Not to in any way take away from your argument and as I did agree that heat can be an issue with these SSD drives to which the articles above give a fair testamentary to.

 

But also as I mentioned the newer DDR4 uses less power and therefore creates less heat in the system (all the tests above are run using DDR3).

Where the SSD drive is mounted closer to a motherboard that is already running hot, the SSD will have no chance of dissipating heat that is trying to escape through it (many X99 motherboards have the M.2 SSD drive slot below and in between the graphics cards). Not forgetting that the above articles show synthetic benching, that is not likely to be seen in real world scenario. Let alone the editorial persuasion, where they were probably trying to write an article on how heat IS a problem with PCI NVME SSDs!

 

Mounting to the back of the motherboard in the mini-ITX case that has no stand offs may mean that the SSD physically will not fit (I recently built in a BitFenix Comrade chassis adding stand-offs makes the I/O ports not line-up!). But then again if the right type of case is sought there maybe a M.2 SSD accommodating motherboard tray, just as it is now common to have an open space behind the CPU.

 

The GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WIFI maybe a better fit as the ATX build in the Gladius M35 with its CPU cut out, or would this type of hardware be required by the smaller and probably lounge room PC, perhaps the OP will update us on this?