Which Phenom II X2

[Dabombinable]

I'm finding the single threaded performance of this laptop's Phenom II N970 to be too low, so I'm going for a dual core version. These are the 4 I'm looking at, and their prices:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare_CPUs/AMD_HMN620DCR23GM,AMD_HMN640DCR23GM,AMD_HMN660DCR23GM,AMD_HMP650SGR23GM/

 

N620: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-X2-N620-HMN620DCR23GM-CPU-Processor-800-MHz-2-8-GHz-/281897048157?hash=item41a25f985d:g:yJ0AAOSwPcVVraIT

N640: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-N640-HMN640DCR23GM-CPU-Processor-1800-MHz-2-9-GHz-/281897063021?hash=item41a25fd26d:g:QzgAAOSwyQtVsFDC

N660: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-N660-HMN660DCR23GM-CPU-Processor-1800-MHz-3-GHz-/272090360064?hash=item3f59d96900:g:2qoAAOSw9N1VsE6N

P650: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AMD-PHENOM-II-DUAL-CORE-P650-2-6GHZ-HMP650SGR23GM-S1-CPU-PROCESSOR-/151481122741?hash=item2344fa7fb5:g:C-8AAOSwaNBUau7E

 

so which should I buy? And would an N660 be worth that much over the others?

[QueenDemetria]

4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I'm currently using a Phenom II N970 and I'm finding that the 2.2GHz clock speed is really limiting performance in games (except FO4, RAM limit first then GPU limit), with the games I'm trying to run properly on this laptop including Minecraft, Skyrim, Battlefield 1942, Halo CE, Halo 2 and Oblivion and a few others. So I'm looking at a Phenom II N870 and N660. I'm leaning towards the N660 due to its clock speed and the N870 looking like its a cut down N970 with an extra 100MHz, so which should I get?

 

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare_CPUs/AMD_HMN660DCR23GM,AMD_HMN870DCR32GM,AMD_HMN970DCR42GM/

In all of my years of overclocking, gaming, tinkering, and messing around, I have always found that a slight bump in Ghz does not make up for a lack of cores(when on the same architecture and what not). The N870 would hurt performance big time(since 100Mhz is hardly any improvement), and the N660 might benefit a few games but it would severely hurt many other games and general performance.

 

I recently(right before the forum update) tested this myself when benching a 4Ghz+ Phenom II X2 560BE(3.3 stock, 4.7 max, 4.5 with lover voltage), and in most tests(synthetics like 3D mark and games like GTA V, MC, pretty much everything in my library) it got beat by my 2.8Ghz Athlon II X4 630, then bitchslapped when I kicked it up to 3.6Ghz. Even though the Phenom had almost 2Ghz on the Athlon, the 2 extra cores on the Athlon prevailed. 

[Dabombinable]

Just now, QueenDemetria said:

In all of my years of overclocking, gaming, tinkering, and messing around, I have always found that a slight bump in Ghz does not make up for a lack of cores(when on the same architecture and what not). The N870 would hurt performance big time(since 100Mhz is hardly any improvement), and the N660 might benefit a few games but it would severely hurt many other games and general performance.

 

I recently(right before the forum update) tested this myself when benching a 4Ghz+ Phenom II X2 560BE(3.3 stock, 4.7 max, 4.5 with lover voltage), and in most tests(synthetics like 3D mark and games like GTA V, MC, pretty much everything in my library) it got beat by my 2.8Ghz Athlon II X4 630, then bitchslapped when I kicked it up to 3.6Ghz. Even though the Phenom had almost 2Ghz on the Athlon, the 2 extra cores on the Athlon prevailed. 

I ended up changing the post since I decided that the tri core versions are pointless. Since the GPU that I use for gaming with this laptop is a Mobility Radeon HD5650 (1GB DDR3 1600) most games that can use 4 threads won't actually be pleasant to play, and games that are more intensive are run on either one of my desktops anyway. And as for general performance, with DDR3 1333 and an SSD (albeit on SATA II), my brother's Pentium M770 with Intel 915gml graphics is a lot faster with Ubuntu 15.10 on a 160GB Samsung HM160HC.

[Prysin]

3 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

I ended up changing the post since I decided that the tri core versions are pointless. Since the GPU that I use for gaming with this laptop is a Mobility Radeon HD5650 (1GB DDR3 1600) most games that can use 4 threads won't actually be pleasant to play, and games that are more intensive are run on either one of my desktops anyway. And as for general performance, with DDR3 1333 and an SSD (albeit on SATA II), my brother's Pentium M770 with Intel 915gml graphics is a lot faster with Ubuntu 15.10 on a 160GB Samsung HM160HC.

actually, what creates the most stutter after VRAM deficiency is lack of CPU power.

if you can get a tri-core over a dual core. Do it. you are less likely to experience stutter (micro or more severe) with that extra core.

[Dabombinable]

9 hours ago, Prysin said:

actually, what creates the most stutter after VRAM deficiency is lack of CPU power.

if you can get a tri-core over a dual core. Do it. you are less likely to experience stutter (micro or more severe) with that extra core.

I've already got the Phenom II N970 at 2.2GHz, the best tri core is only 2.3GHz and a cut down version of the N970. The games that I actually play on this computer all use either 1 or 2 threads (especially world of tanks). Remember that the dGPU is a Mobility Radeon HD5650, its far from a power house.

[Prysin]

8 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I've already got the Phenom II N970 at 2.2GHz, the best tri core is only 2.3GHz and a cut down version of the N970. The games that I actually play on this computer all use either 1 or 2 threads (especially world of tanks). Remember that the dGPU is a Mobility Radeon HD5650, its far from a power house.

remember that there is more then A SINGLE THING running whilst gaming.

a tri-core will atleast leave a core for OS/other tasks. Which otherwise must share resources with your dual core. So if game uses two cores, and system + whatever else also run on two cores, you get less out of your precious CPU to put towards the game.

 

Also, just DONT buy a new CPU, and get a proper PC instead of fixing your aging laptops.

Also, werent you going to sell that 970 and several other GPUs of yours and fix your damn PC with the money?

[Dabombinable]

33 minutes ago, Prysin said:

remember that there is more then A SINGLE THING running whilst gaming.

a tri-core will atleast leave a core for OS/other tasks. Which otherwise must share resources with your dual core. So if game uses two cores, and system + whatever else also run on two cores, you get less out of your precious CPU to put towards the game.

 

Also, just DONT buy a new CPU, and get a proper PC instead of fixing your aging laptops.

Also, werent you going to sell that 970 and several other GPUs of yours and fix your damn PC with the money?

I have this laptop for doing things away from home, my desktop has a 4790K, Z97 Sabertooth MKII (need to RMA it at some point), 16GB RAM, 60GB SSD (240GB got moved to this laptop)+ a 1TB WD Blue. The best mobile tri core Phenom II that AMD released is only 2.3GHz, and this Phenom II N970 (quad core) is at 2.2GHz, so tri cores are pointless. And I was but the performance that it it and the 4790K give have spoiled me in since I got them-I can't stand long periods of time gaming at lower settings at 1080p after so long on laptops far worse than this one. Quite literally the only thing that seems to use all 4 of this CPU's cores is Handbrake, everything else maxes out 1 or 2 cores and uses very little of the other 2 (though Minecraft seems to utilise all 4 at around 50%). And at any rate, the dual cores have 1MB cache per core, which from past experiences with a Pentium M770 (2MB L2 cache for its core) really helps single threaded performance (that Pentium M at 2.13GHz is faster single threaded than this Phenom II N970 at 2.2GHz, and its only an improved Pentium III on a 90mm manufacturing process).

[Prysin]

17 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I have this laptop for doing things away from home, my desktop has a 4790K, Z97 Sabertooth MKII (need to RMA it at some point), 16GB RAM, 60GB SSD (240GB got moved to this laptop)+ a 1TB WD Blue. The best mobile tri core Phenom II that AMD released is only 2.3GHz, and this Phenom II N970 (quad core) is at 2.2GHz, so tri cores are pointless. And I was but the performance that it it and the 4790K give have spoiled me in since I got them-I can't stand long periods of time gaming at lower settings at 1080p after so long on laptops far worse than this one. Quite literally the only thing that seems to use all 4 of this CPU's cores is Handbrake, everything else maxes out 1 or 2 cores and uses very little of the other 2 (though Minecraft seems to utilise all 4 at around 50%). And at any rate, the dual cores have 1MB cache per core, which from past experiences with a Pentium M770 (2MB L2 cache for its core) really helps single threaded performance (that Pentium M at 2.13GHz is faster single threaded than this Phenom II N970 at 2.2GHz, and its only an improved Pentium III on a 90mm manufacturing process).

oh well...

if i were you, id hold onto the CPU. Save my money and wait for the next wave of Carrizo laptops. There should be a few good one coming out soon. I think it was HP or Lenovo releasing a Freesync version with the iGPU AND dual channel memory (many carrizo laptops have only a single stick of RAM, which hurts them A LOT)...

 

FYI, Carrizo (Excavator) has at least 20%+ higher IPC then Phenom based CPUs, higher clock speeds AND lower power consumption... Pretty much the only Bulldozer iteration worth getting imo...
I'm waiting for my Athlon II X4 845k Black Edition... which is a 860k, with Excavator cores rather then Steamroller...

[Dabombinable]

10 minutes ago, Prysin said:

oh well...

if i were you, id hold onto the CPU. Save my money and wait for the next wave of Carrizo laptops. There should be a few good one coming out soon. I think it was HP or Lenovo releasing a Freesync version with the iGPU AND dual channel memory (many carrizo laptops have only a single stick of RAM, which hurts them A LOT)...

 

FYI, Carrizo (Excavator) has at least 20%+ higher IPC then Phenom based CPUs, higher clock speeds AND lower power consumption... Pretty much the only Bulldozer iteration worth getting imo...
I'm waiting for my Athlon II X4 845k Black Edition... which is a 860k, with Excavator cores rather then Steamroller...

I was looking at laptops with A8 6410 and A8 7410 but at the moment, the Phenom II x2 that I'm looking at are inexpensive, and could be what I need to actually have this laptop playing my current games on it better. Also, never going to touch a trinity APU based laptop after the 4555M in my Mum's Asus U38N. Long story short, price/performance this laptop will do for a while yet. Though I can't use Windows 10 as the primary dGPU is a MR HD4250, which doesn't support Windows 10 or even DirectX 11.

[Prysin]

3 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I was looking at laptops with A8 6410 and A8 7410 but at the moment, the Phenom II x2 that I'm looking at are inexpensive, and could be what I need to actually have this laptop playing my current games on it better. Also, never going to touch a trinity APU based laptop after the 4555M in my Mum's Asus U38N. Long story short, price/performance this laptop will do for a while yet. Though I can't use Windows 10 as the primary dGPU is a MR HD4250, which doesn't support Windows 10 or even DirectX 11.

What laptop model do you have???

[Dabombinable]

Just now, Prysin said:

What laptop model do you have???

HP Pavilion DV6 3010AX. It been upgraded from a Phenom II P920 (worst mobile Phenom II X4) to the N970 (best), its DDR3 1066 is now running at 1333 after the upgrade, and its got a 240GB OCZ ARC 100. I have to modify it though so that the southbridge is actively cooled-typical HP poorly designing laptop cooling.

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/hp/pavilion_dv6-3010ax/352205/

[Prysin]

6 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

HP Pavilion DV6 3010AX. It been upgraded from a Phenom II P920 (worst mobile Phenom II X4) to the N970 (best), its DDR3 1066 is now running at 1333 after the upgrade, and its got a 240GB OCZ ARC 100. I have to modify it though so that the southbridge is actively cooled-typical HP poorly designing laptop cooling.

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/review/hp/pavilion_dv6-3010ax/352205/

K, gonna use Firestrike for this test. Whilst not really accurate, it is a pointer...

i5 mobile - HD 5650/5750

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2235369

 

vs

 

FX8800p Carrizo Laptop APU

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/6844229

 

Now, if you score 600 points higher in Firestrike, then generally, you score better in games. Now imagine said laptop with Freesync. Meaning all the shitty FPS, will look smooth anyway

[Dabombinable]

6 minutes ago, Prysin said:

K, gonna use Firestrike for this test. Whilst not really accurate, it is a pointer...

i5 mobile - HD 5650/5750

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2235369

 

vs

 

FX8800p Carrizo Laptop APU

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/6844229

 

Now, if you score 600 points higher in Firestrike, then generally, you score better in games. Now imagine said laptop with Freesync. Meaning all the shitty FPS, will look smooth anyway

I can overclock the dGPU to 700MHz, and past HD5770 levels of performance BTW.

[Prysin]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

I can overclock the dGPU to 700MHz, and past HD5770 levels of performance BTW.

mhm, you can AFAIK OC FX laptop APUs too.... They are the top of the line products, and AFAIK, can be OCd... Also, since it is Excavator, the IPC is respectable (for a bulldozer product) too.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, Prysin said:

mhm, you can AFAIK OC FX laptop APUs too.... They are the top of the line products, and AFAIK, can be OCd... Also, since it is Excavator, the IPC is respectable (for a bulldozer product) too.

I know, but I can squeeze a lot more out of the dGPU if need be. And doing a side-by-side. Yeah....I couldn't get that much of a performance boost:

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2235369/fs/6844229

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I know, but I can squeeze a lot more out of the dGPU if need be. And doing a side-by-side. Yeah....I couldn't get that much of a performance boost:

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2235369/fs/6844229

also, Carrizo has onboard 4K encode/decode, in addition to some other things...

If you find a laptop with 30Hz to 60Hz freesync range and a Carrizo APU with or without dGPU, get it. As with such a setup, anytime AMD GPU drops under 30FPS, it will do some driver sorcery and copy frames to bump up FPS and avoid the stuttering by going under 30 FPS....

Dunno how it works out in reality, but its basically how G-sync works once it drops below G-Sync range...

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

also, Carrizo has onboard 4K encode/decode, in addition to some other things...

If you find a laptop with 30Hz to 60Hz freesync range and a Carrizo APU with or without dGPU, get it. As with such a setup, anytime AMD GPU drops under 30FPS, it will do some driver sorcery and copy frames to bump up FPS and avoid the stuttering by going under 30 FPS....

Dunno how it works out in reality, but its basically how G-sync works once it drops below G-Sync range...

Either way, most post trinity APU are going be a good upgrade-and their shared system memory will be faster than the dedicated DDR3 with this laptop's HD5650.