Question about GPU Boost?

[orangecat]

I have a GTX 970 G1 and its maximum rated boost clock is 1392Mhz, I keep seeing online that some people's cards boost higher than their maximum boost clock but I fail to see how this is even possible unless you overclock. my card is well below its maximum temperature and power limits and bumping the core voltage up to maximum only gets me a 1404Mhz maximum boost clock. I can get an extra 100Mhz by adding some core offset but even then that still doesn't explain why some report their card boosts higher.

 

Maybe I misunderstood or something or maybe my card is just average but I'd really like to know how GPU boost works on other cards.

[afyeung]

I have a GTX 970 G1 and its maximum rated boost clock is 1392Mhz, I keep seeing online that some people's cards boost higher than their maximum boost clock but I fail to see how this is even possible unless you overclock. my card is well below its maximum temperature and power limits and bumping the core voltage up to maximum only gets me a 1404Mhz maximum boost clock. I can get an extra 100Mhz by adding some core offset but even then that still doesn't explain why some report their card boosts higher.

 

Maybe I misunderstood or something or maybe my card is just average but I'd really like to know how GPU boost works on other cards.

Boost clock is technically automatic overclocking without raising power consumption(by a significant amount). So it's also affected by the silicon lottery

[orangecat]

Boost clock is technically automatic overclocking without raising power consumption(by a significant amount). So it's also affected by the silicon lottery

So to my understanding some cards naturally boost higher even past their rated maximum? How can stability be guaranteed if it goes past maximum?

[App4that]

My Hybrid 980ti boosts higher than the one Jay did a review on. Just a matter of luck.

[Hunched]

GPU Boost is a broken power saving feature developed by Nvidia. 

It shouldn't be called GPU Boost, but GPU limit.

It's holding your card back from its full potential, by throttling down clocks and voltages when it feels like it.

It will only boost when your card is cool enough or whatever the fuck it decides, AKA throttling/limiting your card when it feels its too hot. 

Throttling can start as low as the mid 60c's in cases, it's actually retarded.

 

They also use a 1 size fits all voltage table which has plagued many users with stability issues, where the voltage table provided didn't always provide sufficient voltage for the current clock.

This happens to people who HAVEN'T overclocked at all.

They experience TDR's and crashes, it happens most commonly in less demanding games like Starcraft or whatever you would get hundreds of fps in, where the clocks and voltages would plummet due to there not being a demanding enough load placed on the card, causing stability issues.

 

Basically, fuck GPU Boost and fucking Nvidia for developing and not implementing it properly, disable that shit with a BIOS edit or K-Boost in EVGA Precision X.

You never want fluctuating voltages and clocks when you're actually gaming, unless your cooling solution is pure dog shit and you actually will overheat without it.

[App4that]

GPU Boost is a broken power saving feature developed by Nvidia.

It shouldn't be called GPU Boost, but GPU limit.

It's holding your card back from its full potential, by throttling down clocks and voltages when it feels like it.

It will only boost when your card is cool enough or whatever the fuck it decides, AKA throttling/limiting your card when it feels its too hot.

Throttling can start as low as the mid 60c's in cases, it's actually retarded.

They also use a 1 size fits all voltage table which has plagued many users with stability issues, where the voltage table provided didn't always provide sufficient voltage for the current clock.

This happens to people who HAVEN'T overclocked at all.

They experience TDR's and crashes, it happens most commonly in less demanding games like Starcraft or whatever you would get hundreds of fps in, where the clocks and voltages would plummet due to there not being a demanding enough load placed on the card, causing stability issues.

Basically, fuck GPU Boost and fucking Nvidia for developing and not implementing it properly, disable that shit with a BIOS edit or K-Boost in EVGA Precision X.

You never want fluctuating voltages and clocks when you're actually gaming, unless your cooling solution is pure dog shit and you actually will overheat without it.

Wow, what a butt hurt load of crap. So your argument is that my card having a higher clock speed than advertised is limiting it?

Much butt hurt, so fanboy

[Hunched]

Wow, what a butt hurt load of crap. So your argument is that my card having a higher clock speed than advertised is limiting it?

Much butt hurt, so fanboy

My card has a clock speed of 1590mhz.

It's unlikely yours is higher, if it is, congrats man!

 

GPU Boost will throttle my card down and cause it to crash at stock clocks. Disabled I have no problems.

I've read hundreds of posts from different users experiencing the same issues, looking for ways to fix/disable the broken feature.

K-Boost and BIOS edits are the only options, no easy power saving disable option like Intel provides with EIST or C-States etc.

 

Also, I'm sorry you don't understand what you're talking about, but that's not reason to just say everything I've said is bullshit.

How about proving me wrong instead of saying I'm wrong, that would be a nice fucking change on these forums.

[App4that]

My card has a clock speed of 1590mhz.

It's unlikely yours is higher, if it is, congrats man!

GPU Boost will throttle my card down and cause it to crash at stock clocks. Disabled I have no problems.

I've read hundreds of posts from different users experiencing the same issues, looking for ways to fix/disable the broken feature.

K-Boost and BIOS edits are the only options, no easy power saving disable option like Intel provides with EIST or C-States etc.

Also, I'm sorry you don't understand what you're talking about, but that's not reason to just say everything I've said is bullshit.

How about proving me wrong instead of saying I'm wrong, that would be a nice fucking change on these forums.

What crash? I've run Afterburner and PrecisionX 16. My Hybrid boosts to 1366 when the task requires it and stays there. I've never forced voltage on a single graphics card I've owned, ever. So why do you feel that adaptive voltage is a bad thing since every AMD and Nvidia card I've ever owned used it?

[Morgan Everett]

I haven't had this card for long (new to Nvidia), but so far it runs at the boost clock in my signature permanently until it gets hotter than 80 degrees. But, as far as I know, that's only happened so far in Furmark, using the default (very quiet) fan curve. 

[Hunched]

What crash? I've run Afterburner and PrecisionX 16. My Hybrid boosts to 1366 when the task requires it and stays there. I've never forced voltage on a single graphics card I've owned, ever. So why do you feel that adaptive voltage is a bad thing since every AMD and Nvidia card I've ever owned used it?

It doesn't work 100% of the time for 100% of the cards.

As I've said, there are people out there who have crashes at stock clocks due to the card lowering the voltages too low for the current clock, which causes TDRs or crashes.

This typically happens in lesser demanding games, like Starcraft or whatever. Disabling GPU Boost stops the voltage drops and therefore solves the issue.

The voltage will drop if there isn't enough load placed on the card, to save power/lower heat. This is what GPU Boost does.

GPU Boost also throttles if temps get too high, but this wasn't an issue for me because my PC runs pretty damn cool.

 

Sure, it doesn't cause this issue for the majority of cards, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You can do a simple google search and find thousands of complaints.

For whatever reason, this doesn't seem to be an issue for someone like Intel. Their power saving features like EIST work fine, I've never heard of dynamic CPU voltage going too low for the current frequency causing a BSOD, but maybe that issue exists too.

 

GPU Boost uses preset 1 fits all voltage tables for every card, some cards need more voltage than others for stability at the same clock.

This is where the issue happens, the gpu boost voltage tables don't account for cards that need some extra juice. 

All it takes is for the tables to be a bit under providing and you get TDR's and crashes.

Yet shit works fine in stress tests where the GPU is always at 100% load and therefore 100% voltage (unless your temps get too high)

It's when you play a lesser demanding title, and the GPU voltage and clocks try to "relax"

[App4that]

@Hunched Then add voltage, I'm honestly not understanding the issue. I had to add voltage to my 290 in all my profiles. My 980ti is the first graphics card I've been able to use plug and play out of the box.

Everything has people on the internet bitching about it. I owned a Nitro 390 and it was the biggest piece of shit I've ever owned, does that make the 390 a bad graphics card?

[Hunched]

@Hunched Then add voltage, I'm honestly not understanding the issue. I had to add voltage to my 290 in all my profiles. My 980ti is the first graphics card I've been able to use plug and play out of the box.

Everything has people on the internet bitching about it. I owned a Nitro 390 and it was the biggest piece of shit I've ever owned, does that make the 390 a bad graphics card?

Changing the voltage in a software overclocking tool does not change all of the voltage tables, only for the final tables, which is where things are at 100% load anyway and where voltage is fine and this issue does not exist.

 

To do what you're saying, you would have to edit and flash a custom BIOS where you manually bumped all 75 CLK voltages

[App4that]

Changing the voltage in a software overclocking tool does not change all of the voltage tables, only for the final tables, which is where things are at 100% load anyway and where voltage is fine and this issue does not exist.

To do what you're saying, you would have to edit and flash a custom BIOS where you manually bumped all 75 CLK voltages

Hmm, I might be lucky who knows. Most of my friends run Nvidia and the developer I used to work for worked with Nvidia and this is the first I've ever heard of an issue like this. Thermal throttle in blower style coolers, that I know about. But this, no.

[Hunched]

Hmm, I might be lucky who knows. Most of my friends run Nvidia and the developer I used to work for worked with Nvidia and this is the first I've ever heard of an issue like this. Thermal throttle in blower style coolers, that I know about. But this, no.

It's not that you're lucky, it's just that some are unlucky.

I don't know what percentage of the cards it effects, but it's definitely not the majority.

 

Talks of this issue are all throughout overclock.net threads about 900 series and overclocking, custom bios's, all that enthusiast stuff they have over there. They recognize it as an issue, it's where I found most of the in depth information on resolving the issue. 

There's also numerous threads spanning multiple pages on the GeForce forums about it, and users sharing their experiences. 

It's always in games that get high fps where the GPU tries to relax and provides insufficient voltage for the current clock.

This only affects people with cards that need more voltage than most. If the GPU Boost tables weren't as aggressive towards power saving as they are, it would fuck with less people.

 

I don't know if it was this particular topic I got my info from, but just came up in the google search first.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522651/disable-boost-and-bake-in-max-game-stable-clocks-for-maxwell

First page the author says

"Thank you! I spent a lot of time figuring out how to do all of this and putting this thread together. One thing is for sure and it's that you won't get any throttling in your games if these instructions are followed correctly and if a high enough power limit is set. Your games will also be stable when using high clocks. No more crashing in non-demanding games."

It's the non-demanding games where GPU Boost wrecks enough people for this to be a known issue. 

I don't expect everyone to know about it, because if they haven't experienced the issue why would they right?

But it's definitely a thing, and it's easy to find a lot of victims, which I did in my search for answers and solutions.

 

I don't think this issue would exist for so many if Nvidia wasn't so crazy about bragging and proving how power efficient they're getting.

It gets to a point where you're sacrificing stability and performance for saving some power...

[afyeung]

So to my understanding some cards naturally boost higher even past their rated maximum? How can stability be guaranteed if it goes past maximum?

Yes. Because some cards are naturally better than others because of the quality of the silicon and other factors. The advertised clock speed is a conservative estimate.

[App4that]

@Hunched AMD does it too, my 290 got fucked by Crimson because AMD wanted more fps for benchmark bragging over smooth gameplay. Sucks but it is what it is. Thought in this case if I was affected I'd contact the manufacturer of the card, not enough people do that which is why they do shit like this.

[afyeung]

@Hunched AMD does it too, my 290 got fucked by Crimson because AMD wanted more fps for benchmark bragging over smooth gameplay. Sucks but it is what it is. Thought in this case if I was affected I'd contact the manufacturer of the card, not enough people do that which is why they do shit like this.

I've actually never heard anyone complain about GPU boost. And I've watched a ton of 980ti/980/970 reviews. What's really worth complaining is GPU throttling, aka AMD's pathetic "up to 1000mhz". 

[App4that]

I've actually never heard anyone complain about GPU boost. And I've watched a ton of 980ti/980/970 reviews. What's really worth complaining is GPU throttling, aka AMD's pathetic "up to 1000mhz".

*pats Hybrid* glorious

[Hunched]

@Hunched AMD does it too, my 290 got fucked by Crimson because AMD wanted more fps for benchmark bragging over smooth gameplay. Sucks but it is what it is. Thought in this case if I was affected I'd contact the manufacturer of the card, not enough people do that which is why they do shit like this.

Nvidia wouldn't recognize it as an issue, I suppose if enough tried they would eventually get it, but for the few that do and report back, not much luck.

Most customer service reps are pretty brain dead when it comes to anything that isn't a very common issue.

As seen by this thread, it isn't the easiest thing to explain, to basically tell Nvidia GPU Boost doesn't work quite right on 0.1-5% of their cards or whatever the number is.

Some people did get replacements through where they bought it from, and were so unlucky they received another card suffering from the same issue.

 

It's really just a software/firmware issue, GPU Boost is just causing things not to work right, not actually a physical defect, other than the card needs a bit extra juice than most which GPU Boost starves it of in scenarios. It can be completely resolved by disabling GPU Boost.

Or you could edit a custom BIOS and just increase the whole curve of GPU Boost and have a functional GPU Boost.

[afyeung]

*pats Hybrid* glorious

I have a hybrid GPU too lol. But mines clocked at 1160 while yours can probably get to 1500+. I like my cards. They perform very well. But AMD took all the fun out of overclocking by designing GPUs that can't go much more than 10-15% over stock speeds My hybrid 290 is actually a pretty good overclocker. 25% boost on the core. But almost all 290s can get to 1080 without a voltage/power bump so the first 130mhz shouldn't really count. My 390x can only get 60mhz over stock aftermarket OC speeds. Not fun at all.

[Hunched]

I've actually never heard anyone complain about GPU boost. And I've watched a ton of 980ti/980/970 reviews. What's really worth complaining is GPU throttling, aka AMD's pathetic "up to 1000mhz". 

I'm not familiar with AMD's throttling issue.

I assume I would be if I got a 390, which I would have if it was an option at the release of the 970.

I'm that kind of person that seems to find everything wrong with everything, thankfully I'm able to fix almost all of it some way or another.

[App4that]

I have a hybrid GPU too lol. But mines clocked at 1160 while yours can probably get to 1500+. I like my cards. They perform very well. But AMD took all the fun out of overclocking by designing GPUs that can't go much more than 10-15% over stock speeds My hybrid 290 is actually a pretty good overclocker. 25% boost on the core. But almost all 290s can get to 1080 without a voltage/power bump so the first 130mhz shouldn't really count. My 390x can only get 60mhz over stock aftermarket OC speeds. Not fun at all.

I run mine at the stock boost speed, I'm in love with the temperature and silence the AIO provides. I'm never going back to air cooled, ever.

[afyeung]

I'm not familiar with AMD's throttling issue.

I assume I would be if I got a 390, which I would have if it was an option at the release of the 970.

I'm that kind of person that seems to find everything wrong with everything, thankfully I'm able to fix almost all of it some way or another.

All of AMD's recent high end cards cooled by their own design has had throttling issues, except for the fury x for obvious reasons. The nano, 290, and 290x all throttle with the stock fan curve/cooler. Aftermarket cards are fine though. It's good that you're nitpicky and also able to solve these issues. 

[Hunched]

All of AMD's recent high end cards cooled by their own design has had throttling issues, except for the fury x for obvious reasons. The nano, 290, and 290x all throttle with the stock fan curve/cooler. Aftermarket cards are fine though. It's good that you're nitpicky and also able to solve these issues. 

Eh I can't say I'm surprised the reference coolers are shit. Even Nvidia does this sometimes *cough* Titan X *cough*

I'd never get a GPU with a reference cooler, even if it's not bad they're never that great, always blower instead of open and such.

[App4that]

Eh I can't say I'm surprised the reference coolers are shit. Even Nvidia does this sometimes *cough* Titan X *cough*

I'd never get a GPU with a reference cooler, even if it's not bad they're never that great, always blower instead of open and such.

One notable advantage to the reference cooler is the ability to add a AIO and still have the memory and VRMs air cooled. Seriously going to start the Church of AIO. I'm born again and shit.