WC Loop question

[KE2012]

Hey, If you saw a thread I created a while back you will know that I have some issues with my water loop (It runs far too hot!).

 

(Thread relating to my issues http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/467077-expected-temps/#entry6266844)

 

Anyway after fixing the all the bits fried by the bloody PSU I've now got my loop running again (With an additional HeatKiller IV PRO CPU Block in there) and the temps are still 75DC high on both GPU and CPU while under load. My question is this, I've been advised by staff at Overclockers UK that I should buy a bigger reservoir as apparently I currently don't have enough liquid in the system  (My current res: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/bitspower-z-multi-100mm-water-tank-wc-317-bp.html)

 

But before I invest I want to know your opinions on if the res is the issue here?  Because I am not convinced.

 

 

Cheers for reading and an additional thanks to any who respond in advance.

 

 

 

(My loop)

 

Radiator XSPC 360mm EX360

https://www.overcloc...rodid=WC-098-XS

 

Pump  EK XTOP REVO 5 PWM 

https://www.overcloc...rodid=WC-884-EK

 

GPU block XSPC Razor 980 980TI (My GPU is the EVGA GTX 980 SC) 

https://www.overcloc...rodid=WC-338-XS

 

CPU block  HEATKILLER IV PRO ​(4670K trooping away under it)

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/watercool-heatkiller-iv-pro-intel-copper-nickel-wc-028-hk.html

​

[W-L]

-SNIP-

​

 

A res doesn't change the way a loop works, it's mainly aesthetics and for bleeding air, while it will take longer for the fluid to come up to temp it doesn't affect cooling in a meaningful way. From the looks of things everything seems fine to me, but did you ever check the look to see if there was any clogging or gunk build up in the blocks, if it has been run for a while now that's not uncommon for that to happen.

[KE2012]

A res doesn't change the way a loop works, it's mainly aesthetics and for bleeding air, while it will take longer for the fluid to come up to temp it doesn't affect cooling in a meaningful way. From the looks of things everything seems fine to me, but did you ever check the look to see if there was any clogging or gunk build up in the blocks, if it has been run for a while now that's not uncommon for that to happen.

 

This is what I thought too about reservoirs, and the reason I've asked you awesome boffins. And I must admit I have not checked for gunk, but I can see good water flow and it is a relatively new loop, only had water flowing through it for a month and a bit (Including the time the first loop had problems).

[W-L]

This is what I thought too about reservoirs, and the reason I've asked you awesome boffins. And I must admit I have not checked for gunk, but I can see good water flow and it is a relatively new loop, only had water flowing through it for a month and a bit (Including the time the first loop had problems).

 

It seems a bit odd that it would be running at such high temps since you have a fairly adequate rad and pump setup, the gunk could have stayed inside from the previous loop and still be there causing problems. The only other things I can really think of was possibly the pump was running just a bit too low or that the rads had a lot of dust built up.

[KE2012]

It seems a bit odd that it would be running at such high temps since you have a fairly adequate rad and pump setup, the gunk could have stayed inside from the previous loop and still be there causing problems. The only other things I can really think of was possibly the pump was running just a bit too low or that the rads had a lot of dust built up.

 

I have my pump wired onto one of my Mother boards system fan headers and can control it manually or by a pre-programmed settings, and when it powers up you can hear it and see the water start to become turbulent in the reservoir.

[BrightCandle]

Definitely not the reservoir, more water only adds heat capacity to the loop. Water cooling is heat dumped into the loop = heat excelled from the loop and thermal transfer is more efficient the larger the temperature difference. So your high temperature on your components presumably goes along with high water temperature.

 

So lets make sure the water is genuinely hot, how much hotter is it than ambient?

[KE2012]

Definitely not the reservoir, more water only adds heat capacity to the loop. Water cooling is heat dumped into the loop = heat excelled from the loop and thermal transfer is more efficient the larger the temperature difference. So your high temperature on your components presumably goes along with high water temperature.

 

So lets make sure the water is genuinely hot, how much hotter is it than ambient?

 

It gets pretty warm, I don't have a precise way to measure it, but it is definitely much warmer than the air (about 15-20 DC) and after running Valley  Benchmark for 10 mins you can feel some warmth in the res and tubes. 

EDIT: Found a medical thingy your supposed to use on foreheads, applied it to outer side of res and its warmer than 43DC for definite with pump and fans maxed out.

[stealth80]

What fans are you using? What speed? Are you running the GPU/CPU overclocked? The rad is quite thin for gpu + cpu.

 

A good way to check is to feel the air expelled through the radiator, I can feel mine kicking out from my GPU loop as I sit here gaming. If its not hot then theres an issue in the loop

[stealth80]

Could you take a picture of your loop actually just to double check

[KE2012]

Could you take a picture of your loop actually just to double check

 

Sure. 

 

(The pump is horizontal!)

 

Also yes, the radiator does kick out heat, after a while. And the fans are three of these

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00L64NYPC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

 

EDIT: And no, everything is currently at stock speeds.

​

Edited December 29, 2015 by KE2012

[stealth80]

Something doesnt seem right to have temps that high. I have 2x 970s on a 360mm rad so its roughly = to 980 + cpu. My temps are 51C max load for GPUs sometimes creeps 53C but never seen more. I'm also using LED fans albeit Enermax. Fan config is the same also...

[W-L]

I have my pump wired onto one of my Mother boards system fan headers and can control it manually or by a pre-programmed settings, and when it powers up you can hear it and see the water start to become turbulent in the reservoir.

Something doesnt seem right to have temps that high. I have 2x 970s on a 360mm rad so its roughly = to 980 + cpu. My temps are 51C max load for GPUs sometimes creeps 53C but never seen more. I'm also using LED fans albeit Enermax. Fan config is the same also...

 

Yeah that's definitely not normal for a loop like that to get that hot, but when things warm up does the fluid get very hot the only thing I could suspect is clogging of those fine cooling fins in the waterblock.

[KE2012]

Something doesnt seem right to have temps that high. I have 2x 970s on a 360mm rad so its roughly = to 980 + cpu. My temps are 51C max load for GPUs sometimes creeps 53C but never seen more. I'm also using LED fans albeit Enermax. Fan config is the same also...

 

Yeah that's definitely not normal for a loop like that to get that hot, but when things warm up does the fluid get very hot the only thing I could suspect is clogging of those fine cooling fins in the waterblock.

 

The water does get pretty hot, after leaving that Valley Bench mark on for a while longer (still running from earlier) it's getting to the point where if it gets much hotter it would be capable of burning. (The chips are still at a stable 75DC ish)

 

So would you guys suggest a new radiator?  Or try cleaning it out (again)?

[stealth80]

what coolant is it? Has it always ran warm? My radiators are 60mm thick almost double the thickness of yours which may explain my lower temps

[KE2012]

what coolant is it? Has it always ran warm? My radiators are 60mm thick almost double the thickness of yours which may explain my lower temps

 

I've tried two coolants, de-ionized water and EK-Ekoolant EVO And yeah, its been a hot runner on water from day 1 (Did well on air).

[stealth80]

I've tried two coolants, de-ionized water and EK-Ekoolant EVO And yeah, its been a hot runner on water from day 1 (Did well on air).

 

I'm gonna put my neck on the line and say that rad aint upto it, let me see if there's any reviews

[W-L]

The water does get pretty hot, after leaving that Valley Bench mark on for a while longer (still running from earlier) it's getting to the point where if it gets much hotter it would be capable of burning. (The chips are still at a stable 75DC ish)

So would you guys suggest a new radiator?  Or try cleaning it out (again)?

 

I would check those blocks and radiator, it sounds almost like that rad is properly dissipating that heat or the tubes there are clogged, but just as a test take off the top panel of the H440 and see if there is a large change in temps, if that is the case then airflow might be a problem in that case.

[stealth80]

It doesn't get greatly reviewed, 3/5 compared with other slim 360mm rads and 1/5 compared with 360mm radiators. You have a couple of options from here. Do what @W-L has suggested and rule out airflow problems. if all there is good you could try an indepth clean stripping blocks and scrubbing and flushing through with boiling distilled water.

 

If all that fails I would grab a 60mm thick 360mm rad and would consider adding a second radiator to the loop, ive seen them mounted in the lower section and/or front of the H440's

[stealth80]

Have a look here, may help you decide

 

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/11/radiator-round-2015/10/

 

And for mounting ideas have a look at this, she did a fabulous job with this mod and she managed to fit 2x 360mm + 1x 120mm in a H440

 

 

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/149652-green-h440-special-edition-the-riddler-completed/page-14

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[KE2012]

I would check those blocks and radiator, it sounds almost like that rad is properly dissipating that heat or the tubes there are clogged, but just as a test take off the top panel of the H440 and see if there is a large change in temps, if that is the case then airflow might be a problem in that case.

Removing the lid did take the temp down slightly to mid-high 60's, its an improvement but I would have expected a little better, so I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get another rad. 

 

Have a look here, may help you decide

 

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/11/radiator-round-2015/10/

 

And for mounting ideas have a look at this, she did a fabulous job with this mod and she managed to fit 2x 360mm + 1x 120mm in a H440

 

 

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/149652-green-h440-special-edition-the-riddler-completed/page-14

​​

 

 

I may just need a bigger better radiator and I agree that the one i have isn't the best (Picked it up for £25 in a flash sale) So I'll try and buy the beefiest rad I can afford and have another hit at this. (Also dam, first time ive seen that build and love it.)

 

Anyway, thanks for helping me guys, it really has been appreciated!

 

EDIT: Actually, any recommendations on a cleaning kit or technique? I usually just shove a good amount of vinegar through but might try a kit. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by KE2012

[BrightCandle]

I am surprised its getting that hot. The radiators are only good for about 90 Watts per 120mm but that is still 270 Watts dissipated on a loop that only dumps 180W from the GPU and 84W from the CPU, it should be about balanced and have a water temperature about +10-12C over ambient with reasonable 1000 rpm fans which those Corsairs certainly are at the very least.

 

Fundamentally you have the heat dumped in and its not getting pushed out anywhere near as fast as we would expect it to be considering the radiators and fans you have. But that is the place to look, perhaps there is air in the radiators (common problem with top mounted rads) or maybe the fans aren't spinning very fast. But since the tubing is all warm and the radiators are as well its a heat to air exchange issue rather than a pump issue.

[W-L]

Removing the lid did take the temp down slightly to mid-high 60's, its an improvement but I would have expected a little better, so I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get another rad. 

I may just need a bigger better radiator and I agree that the one i have isn't the best (Picked it up for £25 in a flash sale) So I'll try and buy the beefiest rad I can afford and have another hit at this. (Also dam, first time ive seen that build and love it.)

Anyway, thanks for helping me guys, it really has been appreciated!

EDIT: Actually, any recommendations on a cleaning kit or technique? I usually just shove a good amount of vinegar through but might try a kit. 

 

I would probably try cleaning first before trying another rad, seems off that a 360mm rad can't cool a cpu gpu loop. But as for cleaning out the loop your going to want to break down the loop and take apart all the blocks to check to see if there is build up or debris in them first. For the rest like the rad and res a rinse and cleaning with vinegar and distillled water is a good option. One thing I forgot to ask what tubing are you using in that loop cause if it has plasticizer in it that would explain if there is clogging.

[KE2012]

I am surprised its getting that hot. The radiators are only good for about 90 Watts per 120mm but that is still 270 Watts dissipated on a loop that only dumps 180W from the GPU and 84W from the CPU, it should be about balanced and have a water temperature about +10-12C over ambient with reasonable 1000 rpm fans which those Corsairs certainly are at the very least.

 

Fundamentally you have the heat dumped in and its not getting pushed out anywhere near as fast as we would expect it to be considering the radiators and fans you have. But that is the place to look, perhaps there is air in the radiators (common problem with top mounted rads) or maybe the fans aren't spinning very fast. But since the tubing is all warm and the radiators are as well its a heat to air exchange issue rather than a pump issue.

I have done the whole tilting the rig, shock changing the pump speed, pinching the tubes and just letting it run for a while to clear it of air, and the fans are getting to 1800RPPM (NZXT CAM+ software)

 

 

I would probably try cleaning first before trying another rad, seems off that a 360mm rad can't cool a cpu gpu loop. But as for cleaning out the loop your going to want to break down the loop and take apart all the blocks to check to see if there is build up or debris in them first. For the rest like the rad and res a rinse and cleaning with vinegar and distillled water is a good option. One thing I forgot to ask what tubing are you using in that loop cause if it has plasticizer in it that would explain if there is clogging.

 

 The tubing is all this stuff

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/xspc-highflex-hose-7-16-id-5-8-od-15.9-11.1mm-2m-blue-uv-blue-wc-134-xs.html

 

And sure, ill still try giving it another clean first but considering I've cycled vinegar through it twice now I'm not holding out much hope. ​Hopefully taking the blocks apart might reveal something.

​

[Dango]

What is your idle temp?

[W-L]

I have done the whole tilting the rig, shock changing the pump speed, pinching the tubes and just letting it run for a while to clear it of air, and the fans are getting to 1800RPPM (NZXT CAM+ software)

 The tubing is all this stuff

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/xspc-highflex-hose-7-16-id-5-8-od-15.9-11.1mm-2m-blue-uv-blue-wc-134-xs.html

And sure, ill still try giving it another clean first but considering I've cycled vinegar through it twice now I'm not holding out much hope. ​Hopefully taking the blocks apart might reveal something.

​

 

That may be the issue if there is clogging in the waterblocks, I remember talking to another user, Spwath that used the black version of XSPC's tubing and had plastizers leech out into his loop and coat waterblocks and tubing fairly badly:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/390425-white-inside-tubing/

 

When you do take it apart for cleaning and notice something like that you may want to change that tubing to something like Primochill's Advance LRT.