AMD or Nvidia Cards???

[A/C]

Lol was someone saying something about the AMD vs NVIDIA war and how there was no such thing in this topic? Or something? =D

 

 

Hahah, it's customary here that such topics start a war, it's almost obligatory actually

 

I swear I've read at least 5 just like this in the last 10-15 days ^^

 

The botton line is: It's just one of the questions that there isn't a definitive answer. Especially given the small amount of info OP has given us.

 

You know, I always credited this forum of having a good community of intelligent beings who aren't biased or close-minded, but it's very apparent to me that there are still people like you. I, and many others, could go on about how incorrect you are and how ignorant you sound, but I know your type. You will continue to disagree with anyone that isn't in agreement with your opinions, which is fine. At least be civil about it, as you are making yourself look more and more idiotic with every post you make.

 

 

Thank you, you've summarized it quite nicely.

 

 

EDIT: Also, my 300-th post: WOO-HOO!

[Xelithium]

Oh dear, my opinion about Nvidia is just that, my opinion. I find them to be more premium and have higher quality products.

 

But I have still said that I'm most likely getting the HD9970 cause it will be more powerful. But still, I'm a fanboy? If the performance difference is 5% or less I will always prefer Nvidia and Intel.

[Dravic]

Oh dear, my opinion about Nvidia is just that, my opinion. I find them to be more premium and have higher quality products.

 

But I have still said that I'm most likely getting the HD9970 cause it will be more powerful. But still, I'm a fanboy? If the performance difference is 5% or less I will always prefer Nvidia and Intel.

 

You can't compare Intel to AMD cuz Intel is really seriously wiping floor with AMD's stuff.

 

But Nvidia vs AMD, it's a really fair fight and comes down how much money you can burn and what do you want from the GPU. if you want premium features (software like Physx etc.) then go Nvidia, but if you couldn't care less, or you want the free games (again the amount of money you got to burn) - just grab Radeon. Everything else is raw performance difference between specific Radeon and GeForce models. 7970 is just a bit behind 680/770.

[Xelithium]

You can't compare Intel to AMD cuz Intel is really seriously wiping floor with AMD's stuff.

 

But Nvidia vs AMD, it's a really fair fight and comes down how much money you can burn and what do you want from the GPU. if you want premium features (software like Physx etc.) then go Nvidia, but if you couldn't care less, or you want the free games (again the amount of money you got to burn) - just grab Radeon. Everything else is raw performance difference between specific Radeon and GeForce models. 7970 is just a bit behind 680/770.

No you can't say that. This forum is all about AMD. Say something good about Nvidia or Intel and you are fucking digging your own grave.

[Dravic]

No you can't say that. This forum is all about AMD. Say something good about Nvidia or Intel and you are fucking digging your own grave.

 

True. You've already made a death sentence on yourself for your previous post (the one with ' flying fuck') - i wont be surprised if you will get a ban by tomorrow

 

But yea Intel is indeed wiping floor with AMD processors. Whether AMD disappears or not is not a problem for US, it's a problem for INTEL because Intel has fabrics. They need fabrics running. If AMD disappeared tomorrow, Intel has to make a new processor next-gen that will be seriously faster than Haswell if they want to get any sales. If they push it too far though (20-30% increase) that will be the last processor generation Intel makes. Cuz silicon can't go far more than +50% compared to Haswell without some serious ingenius architecture change.

 

So Intel needs AMD to sell stuff. I dont know why havent they given AMD a hand or something yet, they should or they will collapse.

[Vitalius]

Oh dear, my opinion about Nvidia is just that, my opinion. I find them to be more premium and have higher quality products.

 

But I have still said that I'm most likely getting the HD9970 cause it will be more powerful. But still, I'm a fanboy? If the performance difference is 5% or less I will always prefer Nvidia and Intel.

Ya know, I was in your boat for a while. I was going to buy the GTX 780, but then I realized that Nvidia's GPUs had the flaw that I thought AMD's GPUs have. They look good on paper (high FPS), but they cannot handle heavy loads. 

In benchmarks for frame latency, Nvidia GPUs, in comparison to AMD GPUs in the same tier, usually have higher average FPS, but when they are heavily taxed (such as in Crysis 3 when the arrow explodes on the turret in the benchmarks), their FPS tanks harder than AMD GPU's do. AMD GPU's are more consistent even if that consistency is at a lower FPS. Single GPU solutions is what I am talking about BTW. 

I thought it was the other way around in general, but I was wrong. Mind you, Nvidia GPUs look sexy while AMD GPUs usually do not, I find that AMD is behind on both fronts (CPUs/GPUs) architecturally, but at the same time, they are somewhat keeping up and I am surprised by that. Their plans for the future, for both fronts, are pretty epic though. I expect them to pull ahead if they get it right.

As for your console comment, I disagree completely. Nvidia and Intel do not have APUs. Low power high performance (in relation to the power) chips that put out little heat and have tons of cores/multi-processing capabiltiies.

That is exactly what the consoles need. Multi-processing and high performance/low power. AMD had the best hand for that this go around, so it is logical that they be the ones to make hardware for the consoles.

And I would be willing to guess, safely, that they will make a pretty penny off of it. Not just from the console sales, but from the hype of "Our hardware pushes the consoles" as well as the hype of games being optimized for AMD. Even if that is a very temporary advantage. 

 

You can't compare Intel to AMD cuz Intel is really seriously wiping floor with AMD's stuff.

 

But Nvidia vs AMD, it's a really fair fight and comes down how much money you can burn and what do you want from the GPU. if you want premium features (software like Physx etc.) then go Nvidia, but if you couldn't care less, or you want the free games (again the amount of money you got to burn) - just grab Radeon. Everything else is raw performance difference between specific Radeon and GeForce models. 7970 is just a bit behind 680/770.

I would not say they are wiping the floor with AMD. If you read the post about AMD VS Intel's architecture and such you will see why. Think of AMD's architecture and choices as a sleeper move. In other words, it will not take true effect until their work comes to fruition, and when it does, it will hit hard. Very hard. Read the whole thread to completely understand what I am talking about.

Why specifically buy an Nvidia GPU when I can run PhysX (even it is slightly gimped) on my CPU? That is my only reason to actually consider Nvidia over AMD (because AMD is cheaper, will be more powerful with the 9970 and gives me 3 free games) and it does not seem like a good one.

 

True. You've already made a death sentence on yourself for your previous post (the one with ' flying fuck') - i wont be surprised if you will get a ban by tomorrow

 

But yea Intel is indeed wiping floor with AMD processors. Whether AMD disappears or not is not a problem for US, it's a problem for INTEL because Intel has fabrics. They need fabrics running. If AMD disappeared tomorrow, Intel has to make a new processor next-gen that will be seriously faster than Haswell if they want to get any sales. If they push it too far though (20-30% increase) that will be the last processor generation Intel makes, though. Cuz silicon can't go far more than +50% compared to Haswell without some serious ingenius architecture change.

 

So Intel needs AMD to sell stuff. I dont know why havent they given AMD a hand or something yet, they should or they will collapse.

Your doom and gloom semi-forecasting seems silly and moot. If you read the architecture thread I linked above, you will understand why.

[Dravic]

Ya know, I was in your boat for a while. I was going to buy the GTX 780, but then I realized that Nvidia's GPUs had the flaw that I thought AMD's GPUs have. They look good on paper (high FPS), but they cannot handle heavy loads. 

In benchmarks for frame latency, Nvidia GPUs, in comparison to AMD GPUs in the same tier, usually have higher average FPS, but when they are heavily taxed (such as in Crysis 3 when the arrow explodes on the turret in the benchmarks), their FPS tanks harder than AMD GPU's do. AMD GPU's are more consistent even if that consistency is at a lower FPS. Single GPU solutions is what I am talking about BTW. 

I thought it was the other way around in general, but I was wrong. Mind you, Nvidia GPUs look sexy while AMD GPUs usually do not, I find that AMD is behind on both fronts (CPUs/GPUs) architecturally, but at the same time, they are somewhat keeping up and I am surprised by that. Their plans for the future, for both fronts, are pretty epic though. I expect them to pull ahead if they get it right.

As for your console comment, I disagree completely. Nvidia and Intel do not have APUs. Low power high performance (in relation to the power) chips that put out little heat and have tons of cores/multi-processing capabiltiies.

That is exactly what the consoles need. Multi-processing and high performance/low power. AMD had the best hand for that this go around, so it is logical that they be the ones to make hardware for the consoles.

And I would be willing to guess, safely, that they will make a pretty penny off of it. Not just from the console sales, but from the hype of "Our hardware pushes the consoles" as well as the hype of games being optimized for AMD. Even if that is a very temporary advantage. 

 

I would not say they are wiping the floor with AMD. If you read the post about AMD VS Intel's architecture and such you will see why. Think of AMD's architecture and choices as a sleeper move. In other words, it will not take true effect until their work comes to fruition, and when it does, it will hit hard. Very hard. Read the whole thread to completely understand what I am talking about.

Why specifically buy an Nvidia GPU when I can run PhysX (even it is slightly gimped) on my CPU? That is my only reason to actually consider Nvidia over AMD (because AMD is cheaper, will be more powerful with the 9970 and gives me 3 free games) and it does not seem like a good one.

 

Your doom and gloom semi-forecasting seems silly and moot. If you read the architecture thread I linked above, you will understand why.

 

You're not backing your silly data about Nvidia cards 'tanking heavy loads' up at all so what's the deal?

 

I say you're talking about running out of vram and that's easily fixable, get a card with higher amount of vram, simple as that.

[A/C]

 

 

All-in all a thourough answer, AMD won't shut down so easily, they make a fine penny as-is, and they are bound to make even more with the upcoming AM4 and steamroller platform, and if the hawaii chip is as good as rumours suggest, AMD will have the upper hand for at least 6 months on the GPU front (I'm talking top dog position, not the whole market, like I said it's impossible to dominate the whole market today as-is), not exactly a dead man's position, is it? And that all without mentioning the consoles revenue,  that goes without saying. But RIGHT NOW, the enthusiast market is dominated by intel and nvidia. Bear in mind the enthusiast market is only a small portion of the whole pie, and AMD's got his fingers in many parts. Don't forget either that Haswell wasn't the big jump everyone was hoping for, and intel's tock is far away... and even today the notebook market doesn't have many haswell-powered devices, and I personally don't know of any tablets powered by haswell. People can knock on AMD as much as they like, they make someamazing stuff using 28nm dye, I'm curious what the 22nm will bring, but we need to se 25nm silicone from AMD first.

 

You're not backing your silly data about Nvidia cards 'tanking heavy loads' up at all so what's the deal?

 

I say you're talking about running out of vram and that's easily fixable, get a card with higher amount of vram, simple as that.

 

It isn't "silly data" it's common knowledge among enthusiasts. You can throw VRAM at them till the morning comes, won't help them as much as you think, certainly not enough to reduce the dip he was talking about.

And it's not true that posters dig their own grave when praising nvidia over here. I've done it on a number of ocasions and nobody gave me a warning or a slap on the wrist because of it. Credit where credit is due, and I honestly think that graphics core-wise AMD has nothing on nvidia's gk110 core, but that doesn't make them the best at everything, e.g. Bugatti made the best car in the world a couple of years ago - that didn't make them the best car maker in the world. We'll see what the future brings here...

[Vitalius]

You're not backing your silly data about Nvidia cards 'tanking heavy loads' up at all so what's the deal?

 

I say you're talking about running out of vram and that's easily fixable, get a card with higher amount of vram, simple as that.

You can use Google, right?

Techreport does an article over frame latency in various GPUs.

In that article, this picture is shown if you click "16.7ms":

This basically says "On average, the GTX Titan has lower Frame Latency than any other card."

Then this picture is shown if you click "Beyond 50 ms":

This shows that when the FPS is low (such as when a GPU is hit with a heavy load), the AMD's have the best frame latency. Even the GTX Titan falters. Is 6GB of VRAM not enough? I should hope not. 

Now, on average, AMD GPU's, according to those graphs, have higher Frame Latency than Nvidia GPUs. This is strictly talking about Single GPU solutions. 

However, when the going gets tough, and stuff explodes in Crysis 3 at max settings, AMD GPU's stay very consistent with their frame latency. It goes up, but not much. Whereas, all Nvidia GPUs take a huge hit to frame latency. 

What this means in terms of FPS is simple. These numbers are arbitrary to show a concept: 

An AMD GPU averages 40FPS while an Nvidia GPU averages 60FPS, but when both are hit with a heavy load, the AMD GPU falls to 25 FPS while the Nvidia GPU falls to 20 FPS. The difference is stark and noticeable.

That is just an example, but you get the idea. I personally would notice the 40FPS difference a lot more than a 15FPS difference. I would notice both, but dropping to 20FPS when I am used to 60 would bother the crap out of me.

The solution to fixing either situation with either GPU manufacturer is simply to get more GPUs (multi-GPU solutions) or lower the settings so that those dips are not nearly as noticeable, such as having 120FPS rather than 60FPS, so that dropping to 60FPS would not bother you at all. 

To better explain those graphs:

The XXms means the time it takes for each frame to be rendered. If a frame is rendered at 16.7ms constantly, it is 60FPS. 

For reference,

16.7ms = 60FPS

33.3ms = 30FPS

50ms = 20FPS.

Being "Beyond XXms" means being lower than XXFPS. So being Beyond 50ms is another way to say being under 20FPS. As milliseconds go up, frames per second go down.

The "Beyond XXms" means the time spent past a certain FPS threshold essentially. The GTX Titan having the lowest numbers in the Beyond 16.7ms is another way to say it has 60FPS or more for the longest because it spent the least amount of time under 60 FPS. 

Whereas, the reason the AMD GPUs have the lowest Beyond 50ms time is because they spent the least amount of time below 20FPS.

In other words, those graphs basically say this:

"The GTX Titan has the highest average FPS and is often faster than the 7970 GHz edition, but when hit with a heavy load, the 7970 GHz loses less FPS than the GTX Titan and stays at a higher FPS than the TItan during these times of stress."

So yeah. That is what I am talking about.

[GIJew]

You can't compare Intel to AMD cuz Intel is really seriously wiping floor with AMD's stuff.

 

But Nvidia vs AMD, it's a really fair fight and comes down how much money you can burn and what do you want from the GPU. if you want premium features (software like Physx etc.) then go Nvidia, but if you couldn't care less, or you want the free games (again the amount of money you got to burn) - just grab Radeon. Everything else is raw performance difference between specific Radeon and GeForce models. 7970 is just a bit behind 680/770.

This is probably the best approximation of the "age old battle" I've read on this forum

 

I myself prefer Nvidia, why? To be honest I really couldn't tell you, I just know my first machine I got when I was 9 had a crappy Asus Nvidia chip that was essentially a PCB and a fan and I've loved 'em ever since.

Other people feel that way about AMD and I completely respect that.

 

In the end we really are lucky we have two so closely matched companies trading blows, because at the end of the day we're the ones who win!

[RazeG3SG1]

I'm overwhelmed by the response, thanks everyone! As of now, my choice is to get 7970. But i will wait and see the price of 9970.

Discussions are still welcomed =)

[A/C]

Your options as I see them:

 

1. Like you said, w8 for the 9970 which comes in about 2 months (not 1 month like most people here say), or

 

2. Get a cheap, or even a second-hand 7950, and wait for Maxwell,  which should be available Q2/3 next year. By then the 7950 will be more than enough to carry           you on.

 

There, both AMD and nvidia options, both of which look plausable to me

 

Me personally, I'll be getting a 9970 when it comes out, and then the 880 in the end of next year.

[KneesWeak]

BOTH

[KneesWeak]

you can expect the 9970 to be around $600+ untill nvidia takes the fastest single gpu title away with an 880 a while later

I'm overwhelmed by the response, thanks everyone! As of now, my choice is to get 7970. But i will wait and see the price of 9970.

Discussions are still welcomed =)

[A/C]

Yes, my predictions will be anywhere between 600 and 650$ for the reference design as the 7990 has recently been dropped to around 650$, and it's certain a single 9970 won't be as capable as a 7990...

 

But I'm hoping I'm wrong and that AMD can pull out another miracle by making the card sub 600, maybe around 550? Wishful thinking... They'll probbably milk the hell out of the new chip as long as they can (until the maxwell comes out).

[RazeG3SG1]

Yes, my predictions will be anywhere between 600 and 650$ for the reference design as the 7990 has recently been dropped to around 650$, and it's certain a single 9970 won't be as capable as a 7990...

But I'm hoping I'm wrong and that AMD can pull out another miracle by making the card sub 600, maybe around 550? Wishful thinking... They'll probbably milk the hell out of the new chip as long as they can (until the maxwell comes out).

Everything abt 9970 is still a speculation. Ot may be loud or eats more power and generate more heat than 780 and titan. If it is really at that price range, my guess is 9870 will replace 7970's price range

[constanrine5d]

The reason he suggests the 7970 is likely because it comes with 3 free games and is $100 cheaper than the GTX 770.

and it outperforms 770 check linus's benchmarks

[Vitalius]

you can expect the 9970 to be around $600+ untill nvidia takes the fastest single gpu title away with an 880 a while later

Most people believe it will be around $500-$550 to undercut the GTX 780. 

[A/C]

Most people believe it will be around $500-$550 to undercut the GTX 780. 

 

Really? That's new to me... I don't believe so... Gotta research.

[Vitalius]

Really? That's new to me... I don't believe so... Gotta research.

Well, to be perfectly honest, the GTX 780 is a rip off for it's price. How a single core GPU got to over $600 in price is simple: They were winning, and they knew it. 

Simply put, now that competition is coming back between the two (Nvidia and AMD), I fully expect price wars to drop the price on higher end GPUs. At least until Maxwell comes out and this current situation (with Nvidia a generation ahead) happens again. 

Based on that line of logic, I fully expect the 9970 to be in the $500 range. Likely in the lower end. I said "most people" because I attained that line of thinking from reading other forum posts on this topic and they followed that logic as well, and it was not until I read this thread that I saw some people expected it to directly compete, price-wise, with the GTX 780.

[A/C]

That does make sense... but time will tell.

[Vitalius]

That does make sense... but time will tell.

It always does.

[Skanic]

By the way when you even purchase a HD 7970 you can hold on to that code for the 3 free games, And redeem them later for the upcoming new titles.

[A/C]

...yes, but only 'till the end of the year