Amp/DAC for HD600

[Shikarikato]

So I wanted to hear the opinion from you guys about getting an appropriate Amp/DAC for a pair of HD600s(Future set-up), Head-fi pretty much considers the Schiit Magni/Modi to be an " appropriate " combo with them if not more. Thoughts?

[ShearMe]

FiiO E10 is great with my HD 650s.

[Shikarikato]

Errr, let me rephrase that. Do you think HD650s sound better/be more " worth " it than HD600s?

[ShearMe]

I haven't listened to HD 600's, just saying a FiiO E10 works for my 650's, so it'd work for your future 600's.

 

Are you considering getting something other than HD 600's?

[Lyons]

HD650's are just HD600's with a tiny bit more bass and tiny bit less treble. the 600 looks like it has a little less bass than AKG K702's (which I have), so I'd get the 650's if I were you, unless you're treble-happy  :P

[Shikarikato]

I haven't listened to HD 600's, just saying a FiiO E10 works for my 650's, so it'd work for your future 600's.

 

Are you considering getting something other than HD 600's?

Wasn't entirely sure between HE-400s,HD600s, and HD650s. I mainly listen to classical but there's the occasional electro song here and there. Though I was looking at HE-500s and they seemed enticing but the disappointing thing about them is the law of diminishing returns, and I need money to spend on a mic as well.

[Irontheater]

Errr, let me rephrase that. Do you think HD650s sound better/be more " worth " it than HD600s?

 

With Lower end DACs and Amps, the HD600 sound exactly like the HD650. The only observable difference is the sound signature between them, but as far as distortion, and accuracy goes, they both stack up quite well.

 

With Mid-Higher end DACs/Amps, the HD650 will pull ahead of the HD600 in terms of distortion, and its sound signature will get more prominent.

 

The main difference between them are the slightly warmer sounds of the 650, and the a bit more eccentric treble.

Nothing too visible

 

If you are willing to spend around 750-900$ in terms of audio components, get an HD650.

If not, an HD600 would be more appropriate.

 

As for DAC/Amp, the Magni/Modi is a good combo, as well as the O2/ODAC. These sell for around 200-300$.

 

If these were outside of your budget, something like a Fiio E10, E17, or Audioengine D1 (60-160$) would do good with the HD600.

 

(o2/odac and AE D1 sound notably better when used with the hd650)

 

 

HD650's are just HD600's with a tiny bit more bass and tiny bit less treble. the 600 looks like it has a little less bass than AKG K702's (which I have), so I'd get the 650's if I were you, unless you're treble-happy   :P

 

 

They use entirely different drivers separated by 7 years of audio engineering, with the HD650 being re-touched around 2009 to sound notably better, less bassy, using better dampening material.

On higher end amps, you could clearly hear that they sound different.

[ShearMe]

With Lower end DACs and Amps, the HD600 sound exactly like the HD650. The only observable difference is the sound signature between them, but as far as distortion, and accuracy goes, they both stack up quite well.

 

With Mid-Higher end DACs/Amps, the HD650 will pull ahead of the HD600 in terms of distortion, and its sound signature will get more prominent.

 

The main difference between them are the slightly warmer sounds of the 650, and the a bit more eccentric treble.

Nothing too visible

 

If you are willing to spend around 750-900$ in terms of audio components, get an HD650.

If not, an HD600 would be more appropriate.

 

As for DAC/Amp, the Magni/Modi is a good combo, as well as the O2/ODAC. These sell for around 200-300$.

 

If these were outside of your budget, something like a Fiio E10, E17, or Audioengine D1 (60-160$) would do good with the HD600.

 

(o2/odac and AE D1 sound notably better when used with the hd650)

 

 

 

 

They use entirely different drivers separated by 7 years of audio engineering, with the HD650 being re-touched around 2009 to sound notably better, less bassy, using better dampening material.

On higher end amps, you could clearly hear that they sound different.

 

Do you happen to own all this equipment, or are you just repeating various "reviews" you've read?

[Irontheater]

Do you happen to own all this equipment, or are you just repeating various "reviews" you've read?

 

I don't own all of the equipment, obviously.

 

A friend of mine works at a local Audiotheque store. I visit it quite often, and whenever there are new arrivals, I check them out, see what I think.

I also occasionally check reviews, mostly for the "gaming" headphones, or the new brands which I don't know about, just to form a general idea. 

[mr moose]

 

On higher end amps, you could clearly hear that they sound different.

What constitutes a "higher end" amp?

[Irontheater]

What constitutes a "higher end" amp?

 

I'm not really an engineer, I wouldn't know what physically constitutes one.

 

But if you meant how you distinguish a good amp, from a lower quality one, it's all about how much detail you can squeeze out of it before it starts distorting, or compromising sound quality.

How loud can it get before giving off sound impurities.

 

Does it keep a song integral to how it's "supposed" to sound.

Does it boost sound stage?

Does it boost the can's advantages, while covering up its cons.

Does the cans' sound signature change when using this amp, is it flat, isn't it, does it boost sound stage, does it prioritize bass...etc

It's all about the little things, a lot of people wouldn't care about that, while others use the amp to tamper with how their headphones sound, to customize it to how they like it best.

 

Being a good amp doesn't mean that it should be transparent. Sound is very subjective, and sometimes having an amp that boosts mids/bass/treble can be advantageous to certain headphones, or to certain people.

[mr moose]

I'm not really an engineer, I wouldn't know what physically constitutes one.

 

But if you meant how you distinguish a good amp, from a lower quality one, it's all about how much detail you can squeeze out of it before it starts distorting, or compromising sound quality.

How loud can it get before giving off sound impurities.

 

Does it keep a song integral to how it's "supposed" to sound.

Does it boost sound stage?

Does it boost the can's advantages, while covering up its cons.

Does the cans' sound signature change when using this amp, is it flat, isn't it, does it boost sound stage, does it prioritize bass...etc

It's all about the little things, a lot of people wouldn't care about that, while others use the amp to tamper with how their headphones sound, to customize it to how they like it best.

 

Being a good amp doesn't mean that it should be transparent. Sound is very subjective, and sometimes having an amp that boosts mids/bass/treble can be advantageous to certain headphones, or to certain people.

 

So a higher end amp is one you like the sound of?

[Irontheater]

So a higher end amp is one you like the sound of?

 

it's all about how much detail you can squeeze out of it before it starts distorting, or compromising sound quality.

How loud can it get before giving off sound impurities.

 

 

Heh, I thought you were trying to set up a trap for me.

 

I was right.

 

I have nothing more to add.

[ShearMe]

A trap, that's a brilliant idea! We should really start making some of those, Mr. Moose.

[mr moose]

Heh, I thought you were trying to set up a trap for me.

 

I was right.

 

I have nothing more to add.

 

What you said seems contradictory to me so I thought I would seek qualification and a better explanation. You can call that setting a trap if you want.

[mr moose]

A trap, that's a brilliant idea! We should really start making some of those, Mr. Moose.

I've already got a bass trap installed at the rear of my theatre room.

[Irontheater]

What you said seems contradictory to me so I thought I would seek qualification and a better explanation. You can call that setting a trap if you want.

 

I was just trying to explain it.

 

Went into objective detail, and then subjective detail as should be done when discussing audio.

 

If it's objectively good, it doesn't mean that it's the best suited for every situation.

[mr moose]

Yer, it was this statement I can't get my head around:

 

 

With Lower end DACs and Amps, the HD600 sound exactly like the HD650. The only observable difference is the sound signature between them, but as far as distortion, and accuracy goes, they both stack up quite well.

 

With Mid-Higher end DACs/Amps, the HD650 will pull ahead of the HD600 in terms of distortion, and its sound signature will get more prominent.

 

 

 

It is either a long winded way to say different amps affect different headphones differently. or you are saying that there are certain "higher end amps" that highlight the "sound signature" of a headphone.

 

Neither of which I particularly agree with, I believe an amps should not colour the sound at all and that once you get to a particular quality level the law of diminishing returns suggest little difference between them. But I always preach to keep an open mind.

[MayflowerElectronics]

For everyone involved, please read this article.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650

 

More or less, the original HD580, HD600, and 650 sound pretty much the same (check out the measurements). Of course there are slight differences from baffling, sound dampening ect ect, but talking to someone who has listened to all 3 (not me personally) they all sound the same within margin of error.

 

With that in mind, the HD 600's are the best value, and can be found in the $300-320 range brand new, if you look for them.

 

 

They use entirely different drivers separated by 7 years of audio engineering, with the HD650 being re-touched around 2009 to sound notably better, less bassy, using better dampening material.

On higher end amps, you could clearly hear that they sound different.

 

Read my above statement, and the article.

 

You WILL need a dedicated headphone amp/DAC to drive those headphones. What you want in that combination is completely up to you. Of course, time and time again, people will recommend the o2+ODAC combination as it gives a clean, non distorted source to the headphones. My personal feeling of amplifiers or dac's that change the music or add "warmth" are not good. You are essentially poisoning (if I can use that term) the music. Distorting it and adding things that are not supposed to be there. This happens to be bass, and consumers love bass! But for bass impact, I would skip these, they are just not designed for that.

 

As for the Schiit mogni, magni combo.

 

Whatever you do, don't buy any of that junk. Let me link you to a few articles/videos on WHY you should buy anything but schiit.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/562736/what-causes-this-amp-related

 

Read the article, and watch the video.

 

Long story short - They are a crappy amplifier/DAC combination that looks good and is cheap. I wouldn't put that junk anywhere near any decent headphones. There are much better options for the $100-200 price point.

[mr moose]

For everyone involved, please read this article.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650

 

More or less, the original HD580, HD600, and 650 sound pretty much the same (check out the measurements). Of course there are slight differences from baffling, sound dampening ect ect, but talking to someone who has listened to all 3 (not me personally) they all sound the same within margin of error.

 

With that in mind, the HD 600's are the best value, and can be found in the $300-320 range brand new, if you look for them.

 

 

They use entirely different drivers separated by 7 years of audio engineering, with the HD650 being re-touched around 2009 to sound notably better, less bassy, using better dampening material.

On higher end amps, you could clearly hear that they sound different.

 

Read my above statement, and the article.

 

You WILL need a dedicated headphone amp/DAC to drive those headphones. What you want in that combination is completely up to you. Of course, time and time again, people will recommend the o2+ODAC combination as it gives a clean, non distorted source to the headphones. My personal feeling of amplifiers or dac's that change the music or add "warmth" are not good. You are essentially poisoning (if I can use that term) the music. Distorting it and adding things that are not supposed to be there. This happens to be bass, and consumers love bass! But for bass impact, I would skip these, they are just not designed for that.

 

As for the Schiit mogni, magni combo.

 

Whatever you do, don't buy any of that junk. Let me link you to a few articles/videos on WHY you should buy anything but schiit.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/562736/what-causes-this-amp-related

 

Read the article, and watch the video.

 

Long story short - They are a crappy amplifier/DAC combination that looks good and is cheap. I wouldn't put that junk anywhere near any decent headphones. There are much better options for the $100-200 price point.

 

If you don't quote or tag a particular person/response then they won't be notified and may not come back to read your response.  

[MayflowerElectronics]

If you don't quote or tag a particular person/response then they won't be notified and may not come back to read your response.

 

Better? Haha, yeah sorry, I think I quoted and deleted it by accident, my fault.

[mr moose]

Better? Haha, yeah sorry, I think I quoted and deleted it by accident, my fault.

Haha, You didn't quote me though, in your last post you quoted Irontheatre but without the quote box.  I just figured it was an oversight as not many people use the tag #username option.

[Shikarikato]

...

Considering that the Asgard was fixed with the A2 and Schiit did end up fixing the Asgards that had outstanding problems such as that. I did see that a long time ago and I still had an idea on purchasing Schiit considering from everything other than that it shows that Magni/Modi is a better combination than O2/ODAC at a lower price point and beating other products in its price point. I personally can't give my input on whether they're any good due to my lack of the item and that I'm really poor with describing audio being " better " in specific aspects other than that I know it just sounds better with better equipment.

 

To comment from the knowledge I gained lurking through Headfi.org having a amp that " distorts " the audio can be a good thing for some people, due to HD800s very sharp treble a lot of people have said it becomes tiring to listen to and getting a tube amp with warm tubes, it becomes a little less, " tiring ".

[MayflowerElectronics]

Considering that the Asgard was fixed with the A2 and Schiit did end up fixing the Asgards that had outstanding problems such as that. I did see that a long time ago and I still had an idea on purchasing Schiit considering from everything other than that it shows that Magni/Modi is a better combination than O2/ODAC at a lower price point and beating other products in its price point. I personally can't give my input on whether they're any good due to my lack of the item and that I'm really poor with describing audio being " better " in specific aspects other than that I know it just sounds better with better equipment.

 

The magni/modi is simply not better than the o2/ODAC and proper measurements can prove that. Anyone with an EE background can easily pick apart the circuits that they (schiit) produce. I don't want to raise an argument but with two points I can prove this (the schiit has higher output impedance, and a fixed high gain setting) that the o2/ODAC does not have. 

 

Although to each his own!

[jacobffeldman]

you should definitely get the 600's because the 650 are the same design. The only difference between the two is that the 600's have a filter in the back that blocks some of the air flow to the drivers. You can easily open up the 600's and remove the filter and than you would effectively have the 650's.