AMD's new APUS

[catzambia]

Hey guys, I've been wondering for a while if we can expect to see amazing performance from amd's apus. Given how much difference faster ram makes for the apus, and since these will be released on socket AM4, which will support ddr4, it sounds like we can expect some outstanding price:performance from these. What do you guys think?

[ZetZet]

Expect whatever you want, AMD hasn't delivered on APU or CPU in years. I will just wait.

[pckid]

AMD said they were going to release new APUs and CPUs next year.

[Nena Trinity]

Yup DDR4 but some of their charts was marked DDR3 support also...

[Prysin]

Expect whatever you want, AMD hasn't delivered on APU or CPU in years. I will just wait.

APU,s theyve done right. BUT, their CPUs NOPE...

 

I would say, in the "intergrated" space, INtel has been the one disappointing. For the price, their rivaling products aka Broadwell, is so expensive, with so little in return performance wise, that it simply does not make sense at all.

3x price for 15-20% performance gain.

 

To put things in perspective:

That is similar to a reference 980 costing 3x more then a 970. While still being only 15% faster. Nobody would buy such a GPU.

 

While it will be interesting to see how they go forwards with the AM4 socket, i think what they should have done is give is a proper product. Desktop Carrizo, yes i KNOW it cannot be done because the density of the chip is so high that any TDP over 35W causes so much leakage that a Kaveri APU bypasses it in both efficiency and performance...

 

BUT they could atleast give us something with a proper GPU onboard able to max out more of the CPU... a R7 250 is a BIT cheap..

 

especially since Carrizo, their latest gen APU uses Tonga (R9 285/R9 380)... Tonga came around the same time/before Kaveri was released... their GPU and CPU and APU business could have just exchanged some words and made a ballin product... its not like their shy of using power. So a 125W SKU wouldnt "shock" anyone...

[ZetZet]

 

apu's at the moment are being smashed by cpu+gpu combo so I don't see what's right about them.

[Prysin]

apu's at the moment are being smashed by cpu+gpu combo so I don't see what's right about them.

yes and no.

 

if going by new parts (because used APUs will be dirt cheap). Up to 350 USD, APUs reign king. Not because there cannot be had better options, but because those other options have just as bad or worse caveats then the APU... If going with slim HTPC/NUC then i would set the "ceiling" for total system to 500 USD, because you gotta add a sizeable 2.5" HDD or SSD. And they usually cost a bit more if you want a nippy HDD at that size.

 

Knowing that the start price for broadwell (CPU + mobo) is around 330-340 USD ish, then really. There is not much "competition" atm... It's a damn shame the skylake i3s didnt have a better iGPU (they got a 5-10% boost... pathetic since even the A8 APUs were like 30-50% ahead of Haswells iGPUs)....

 

a good "budget" setup would a 860k (screw the G3258, its a toy. This CPU costs the same and performs better) and a AMD 260X... you can maybe if you REALLY try, squeeze those together if you go for a non-OC AMD board. Unfortunatly, NOT if you go for mITX though.

 

It is all about use case.

For a budget LAN rig, playing CS 1.6 or CS:GO / WC3 /Star-Craft/Age of Empires... it is really hard to argue against APUs.... however, just like all other products. There is a time and place for everything. Since Kaveri APUs doesnt support full range Crossfire. they are useless.

 

This is another feature Carrizo did right. The ability to CF with any AMD GPU... be it a 390X or a 240 (i think the limitation is it being GDDR5 VRAM. Dont think HBM will work)....

[ZetZet]

yes and no.

 

if going by new parts (because used APUs will be dirt cheap). Up to 350 USD, APUs reign king. Not because there cannot be had better options, but because those other options have just as bad or worse caveats then the APU... If going with slim HTPC/NUC then i would set the "ceiling" for total system to 500 USD, because you gotta add a sizeable 2.5" HDD or SSD. And they usually cost a bit more if you want a nippy HDD at that size.

 

Knowing that the start price for broadwell (CPU + mobo) is around 330-340 USD ish, then really. There is not much "competition" atm... It's a damn shame the skylake i3s didnt have a better iGPU (they got a 5-10% boost... pathetic since even the A8 APUs were like 30-50% ahead of Haswells iGPUs)....

 

a good "budget" setup would a 860k (screw the G3258, its a toy. This CPU costs the same and performs better) and a AMD 260X... you can maybe if you REALLY try, squeeze those together if you go for a non-OC AMD board. Unfortunatly, NOT if you go for mITX though.

 

It is all about use case.

For a budget LAN rig, playing CS 1.6 or CS:GO / WC3 /Star-Craft/Age of Empires... it is really hard to argue against APUs.... however, just like all other products. There is a time and place for everything. Since Kaveri APUs doesnt support full range Crossfire. they are useless.

 

This is another feature Carrizo did right. The ability to CF with any AMD GPU... be it a 390X or a 240 (i think the limitation is it being GDDR5 VRAM. Dont think HBM will work)....

260x is like TWICE or THREE TIMES as powerful as 7870k tho... It's like not even funny.

[Prysin]

260x is like TWICE or THREE TIMES as powerful as 7870k tho... It's like not even funny.

and it is quite cheap.

although, at most it is 75-100% stronger

 

here is a comparison for you

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1124?vs=1044

And NOPE, its not a 7870k (aka 270X) that is in the APU. its a 7750 or something like that.. so even worse.

[ZetZet]

and it is quite cheap.

although, at most it is 75-100% stronger

 

here is a comparison for you

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1124?vs=1044

And NOPE, its not a 7870k (aka 270X) that is in the APU. its a 7750 or something like that.. so even worse.

yes I know it's terribad. Actually 7750/r7 250 is way more powerful than 7850k/7870k igpu. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12 It gets smacked by 6750. It's just awful at the moment, SO far behind.

 

Looking at notebookcheck APU's are barely faster than low end laptop gpu's http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-R7-512-Cores-Kaveri-Desktop.112875.0.html

 

 

It's just so sad

[SilicateWielder]

yes I know it's terribad. Actually 7750/r7 250 is way more powerful than 7850k/7870k igpu. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12 It gets smacked by 6750. It's just awful at the moment, SO far behind.

 

Looking at notebookcheck APU's are barely faster than low end laptop gpu's http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-R7-512-Cores-Kaveri-Desktop.112875.0.html

 

 

It's just so sad

And your point is? If it runs what I want it to, and is cheaper than a cpu/gpu combo then there is no issue here.

 

I mean, if I wanted to, I could theoreticallly run GTA V on the Sempron 3850 I have stored on my shelf. Of course it would require tweaking and some overclocking to get just right, but still; my system is currently worth $80ish in purchased parts.

 

And when AM4 comes out, if it beats the Athlon 5350, I'm upgrading to AM4.

 

However I'd love to see a motherboard with a Carrizo chip that meets either the mini or pico ITX format, I'm looking for something to fit inside this dead PS2 I have. :3

[ZetZet]

And your point is? If it runs what I want it to, and is cheaper than a cpu/gpu combo then there is no issue here.

 

I mean, if I wanted to, I could theoreticallly run GTA V on the Sempron 3850 I have stored on my shelf. Of course it would require tweaking and some overclocking to get just right, but still; my system is currently worth $80ish in purchased parts.

 

And when AM4 comes out, if it beats the Athlon 5350, I'm upgrading to AM4.

 

However I'd love to see a motherboard with a Carrizo chip that meets either the mini or pico ITX format, I'm looking for something to fit inside this dead PS2 I have. :3

it is very slightly cheaper and much much slower.

[Prysin]

yes I know it's terribad. Actually 7750/r7 250 is way more powerful than 7850k/7870k igpu. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12 It gets smacked by 6750. It's just awful at the moment, SO far behind.

 

Looking at notebookcheck APU's are barely faster than low end laptop gpu's http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-R7-512-Cores-Kaveri-Desktop.112875.0.html

 

 

It's just so sad

well, its a iGPU at a sensible price point?... what the fuck do you expect?

 

Broadwell is overpriced to such an extent its not even funny. If broadwell was 100 USD cheaper, it would still be a stiff price to pay, but it would make some sort of sense. but 279 USD for a fucking underclocked i5 with a strong iGPU is way out of line.

 

That being said, Broadwell is more like a 260... so even THE best iGPU on the market is still abysmal...

 

however my point still stands. APUs have a PLACE. inside a slimline HTPC or NUC.

Good luck putting a GPU inside a NUC, since a NUC is so small that even the R9 Nano wouldnt fit, regardless how much you try.

[ZetZet]

however my point still stands. APUs have a PLACE. inside a slimline HTPC or NUC.

Good luck putting a GPU inside a NUC, since a NUC is so small that even the R9 Nano wouldnt fit, regardless how much you try.

eh, broadwell doesn't even exist in my mind. 

 

Show me an apu that's inside of a nuc. APU's have HUGE tdp's for nucs.

[TechGod]

Expect whatever you want, AMD hasn't delivered on APU or CPU in years. I will just wait.

Its obvious the Zen series will be good. Great, even. 

[Prysin]

it is very slightly cheaper and much much slower.

ok, let us match the price?

 

AMD A10 7870k

140 USD

 

ok! let us MATCH the CPU

AMD Athlon 860k

70 USD

 

let us match the GPU

AMD R7 250 (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr725oc2girev30) <- even more underclocked then the iGPU inside the APU. but that one was cheapest.

76 USD

 

OH SNAP... 6USD more, and ZERO improvement in performance.

 

 

ok! let us do this they way some idiot would do it:

G3258 -> 64 USD

 

and the only GPU you can get within the 140 USD budget is...

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr725oc2girev30 <- yes, that underclocked shitty R7 250 from gigabyte....

 

 

gratz brah. you cannot beat an APU on price.

Incidentally, you can OC the iGPU and CPU quite easily to gain even MORE performance.

[ZetZet]

ok, let us match the price?

 

AMD A10 7870k

140 USD

 

ok! let us MATCH the CPU

AMD Athlon 860k

70 USD

 

let us match the GPU

AMD R7 250 (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr725oc2girev30) <- even more underclocked then the iGPU inside the APU. but that one was cheapest.

76 USD

 

OH SNAP... 6USD more, and ZERO improvement in performance.

 

 

ok! let us do this they way some idiot would do it:

G3258 -> 64 USD

 

and the only GPU you can get within the 140 USD budget is...

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr725oc2girev30 <- yes, that underclocked shitty R7 250 from gigabyte....

 

 

gratz brah. you cannot beat an APU on price.

Incidentally, you can OC the iGPU and CPU quite easily to gain even MORE performance.

ZERO improvement? We just established that r7 250 KICKS APU's ASS with DOUBLE the performance. did you sleep through that part?

Let me refresh your memory 6750<7750<r7 250. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

[Prysin]

eh, broadwell doesn't even exist in my mind. 

 

Show me an apu that's inside of a nuc. APU's have HUGE tdp's for nucs.

NUC is a intel "thing"... thats why.

 

Good luck finding ANY AMD part inside a "NUC".... The TDP is perfectly manageble even in a small space. Just slap a weak copper blower cooler on it and thats it. Cooling is dealt with.

for reference... INtel "invented" or rather introduced the 5"x5" mobo. Which is as small or smaller then some of the custom NUC mobos... they thought that something SMALLER then mITX was perfectly fine with a 65w TDP CPU....

[Prysin]

ZERO improvement? We just established that r7 250 KICKS APU's ASS with DOUBLE the performance. did you sleep through that part?

Let me refresh your memory 6750<7750<r7 250. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

R7 250 IS THE FUCKING iGPU USED INSIDE THE APU

 

IT IS A R7 250.

 

WE TALKED ABOUT THE R7 260X. A BONAIRE BASED GPU

APUS ARE BASED ON CAPE VERDE.

 

R7 260X COSTS 100 USD FOR EVEN THE CHEAPEST ONE.

A APU COSTS 110 USD FOR THE 7850k....

 

ATLEAST GET SOMETHING RIGHT!

[SilicateWielder]

ok, let us match the price?

 

AMD A10 7870k

140 USD

 

ok! let us MATCH the CPU

AMD Athlon 860k

70 USD

 

let us match the GPU

AMD R7 250 (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr725oc2girev30) <- even more underclocked then the iGPU inside the APU. but that one was cheapest.

76 USD

 

OH SNAP... 6USD more, and ZERO improvement in performance.

 

 

ok! let us do this they way some idiot would do it:

G3258 -> 64 USD

 

and the only GPU you can get within the 140 USD budget is...

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-video-card-gvr725oc2girev30 <- yes, that underclocked shitty R7 250 from gigabyte....

 

 

gratz brah. you cannot beat an APU on price.

Incidentally, you can OC the iGPU and CPU quite easily to gain even MORE performance.

Thank you for this!

[ZetZet]

R7 250 IS THE FUCKING iGPU USED INSIDE THE APU

 

IT IS A R7 250.

 

WE TALKED ABOUT THE R7 260X. A BONAIRE BASED GPU.

 

APUS ARE BASED ON CAPE VERDE.

 

ATLEAST GET SOMETHING RIGHT!

r7 250 is not the igpu inside the apu, you are high. r7 250 is much faster than the APU. r7 250 is rebranded 7750.

 

only ddr3 r7 250 is as slow as igpu r7. ddr5 is faster.

Thank you for this!

for false argument?

[Prysin]

 

r7 250 is not the igpu inside the apu, you are high. r7 250 is much faster than the APU. r7 250 is rebranded 7750.

 

only ddr3 r7 250 is as slow as igpu r7. ddr5 is faster.

for false argument?

 

*sigh* here, have fun.

 

http://anandtech.com/show/9307/the-kaveri-refresh-godavari-review-testing-amds-a10-7870k/5

 

compare the 240 scores to the iGPU 7870k scores...

 

a stock R7 250 is 1000MHz..

the iGPU inside the 7870k is 820MHz...

 

Guess why it is slower?

 

Also... Kaveri, aka A10 7850k is GCN 1.1

So technically Hawaii core...

Although it performs about as a underclocked R7 250.

[ZetZet]

*sigh* here, have fun.

 

http://anandtech.com/show/9307/the-kaveri-refresh-godavari-review-testing-amds-a10-7870k/5

 

compare the 240 scores to the iGPU 7870k scores...

 

a stock R7 250 is 1000MHz..

the iGPU inside the 7870k is 820MHz...

 

Guess why it is slower?

 

Also... Kaveri, aka A10 7850k is GCN 1.1

So technically Hawaii core...

Although it performs about as a underclocked R7 250. 

so it's established, it's worse than a r7 250. exactly what I have been saying all along. Even r7 240 ddr3 beats it most of the time. It's just awful. eww.

[Prysin]

so it's established, it's worse than a r7 250. exactly what I have been saying all along. Even r7 240 ddr3 beats it most of the time. It's just awful. eww.

I question which graph you were looking at... let me guess, the dual graphics one where you use BOTH A APU + THE 240?

 

cuz it didnt win any other fucking time.

[ZetZet]

I question which graph you were looking at... let me guess, the dual graphics one where you use BOTH A APU + THE 240?

 

cuz it didnt win any other fucking time.

 

 

 

 

and lets remember, this is a r7 240 gddr3. Not even a r7 250 gddr3, not r7 250 gddr5, not r7 250x, not a used gpu you could get for 70$ like a 6850 or something.