Maxwell and Dx12?

[orcinhell]

Link to a post on PC master race https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3j2wpj/x_post_rpcgaming_nvidia_gpus_do_not_support_dx12/

 

What do you guys think? I have a 970 and while pissed to the point that I might never buy a nvidia card again I am also waiting to see before I pick up my pitchfork. Everyone is saying that the maxwell series is dead and in a year your going to have to upgrade... I don't see adoption going that fast, maybe in 2 but by that time I will be ready to upgrade anyway and will be going AMD again if true It seems I swap companies every upgrade because of lies lol. People have to adopt windows 10 first, and developers have to make games for it.

 

On a moral level, if this is right, I am pissed. On a omg my card is now shit level I am pretty claim, the few games that will have dx 12 I assume (I know makes a ass of you and me) will also have Dx 11 support just like games now that have DX 11 tend to have DX 10 support.

 

Anyone know the latest on this? I am mostly pissed from a PC fan point of view... We are gaining momentum as a platform with really strong pro points over console and now a company like Nvidia decide to start (possibly) being shit heads and start giving PC a bad rep... PC prices are coming down and more people are switching from console to PC which is fantastic but now some of those poor guys/girls forked out 1000 bucks or more for a good gaming rig got a 970 and find this out... not a good image.

[don_svetlio]

I'd say if you're pissed about this, grab your pitchfork but please don't start a war ._.

I've gone through this several times - think of it as an an i5 3570K and an i7 3770K - both are the same but the i7 has an extra feature - one which cannot be added via driver, else I'd have a 4590 flashed to a 4790

[Oshino Shinobu]

There is literally one game to support this. It's way too early to tell how DX12 will really affect performance.

[blackadder]

Its only a big deal if game progamers program it to use that feature. Its kinda like 2 way highways instead of one way. All about the laziness of others, im sure if nvidia knew people would get so pissed they would of re worked it. As i see it today its not dead and only in a select few games could this be a main feature and issue. I feel more pitch forkey over the 3.5 gb bandwidth than this. Also i don't think any current card will be rocking high/ultra with real dx12 eye candy, we can't even get 1440 or 4k main stream.

[orcinhell]

Yea people tend to overreact, I have pulled my pitchfork out of the shed but I still only have it sitting next to me... What I am pissed about is the image this gives PC. I have converted mates over recently because they had yet to upgrade to the next console and all 3 have Nvidia cards. They knew they were going to need or want to upgrade in 2 years anyway but its not good image.

 

PC is about freedom and its so modular but if the companies are lying to the lay people about what they are buying, I knew they didn't have full support thanks to Linus but not everyone does we talk about how corrupt console companies are holding games hostage and giving users a raw deal with the hardware and things like this start to spread.

[GER_T4IGA]

There is literally one game to support this. It's way too early to tell how DX12 will really affect performance.

the new Hitman, Deus Ex: Human revolution, Fable: legends = 1

dat don make no sense.

[manikyath]

so, off the vague benchmarks we've seen, you may be right that theres a deeper maxwell/dx12 issue that cant be solved.

 

but even IF... look at it like this:

 

i currently have 3 games of which i know they're DX11 (DX11 was announced in '08). by the time i get DX12 games it'll be time for an upgrade anyways.

[blackadder]

Yea people tend to over react, I have pulled my pitchfork out of the shed but I still only have it sitting next to me... What I am pissed about is the image this gives PC. I have converted mates over recently because they had yet to upgrade to the next console and all 3 have Nvidia cards. They knew they were going to need or want to upgrade in 2 years anyway but its not good image.

same here, i have a few that have and a few more jumping ship. Some amd some nvidia,game releases are what really scares them. They don't want to play a pretty but buggy mess.

[blackadder]

the new Hitman, Deus Ex: Human revolution, Fable: legends = 1

dat don make no sense.

that came out already. Ashes of singularly i believe.

[don_svetlio]

Its only a big deal if game progamers program it to use that feature. Its kinda like 2 way highways instead of one way. All about the laziness of others, im sure if nvidia knew people would get so pissed they would of re worked it. As i see it today its not dead and only in a select few games could this be a main feature and issue. I feel more pitch forkey over the 3.5 gb bandwidth than this. Also i don't think any current card will be rocking high/ultra with real dx12 eye candy, we can't even get 1440 or 4k main stream.

Eh - depends actually - consoles use AMD hardware and will be pushing this for extra horse power. We might see A-sync shaders quite a bit.

[Oshino Shinobu]

the new Hitman, Deus Ex: Human revolution, Fable: legends = 1

dat don make no sense.

Okay, please link me some benchmarks for full DX12 support in those games. 

 

We only have one game to actually benchmark with DX12.

[GER_T4IGA]

that came out already. Ashes of singularly i believe.

Well isn't that a bechmark or is the becnhmark just the only thing out yet?

[GER_T4IGA]

Okay, please link me some benchmarks for full DX12 support in those games. 

 

We only have one game to actually benchmark with DX12.

YET, but they are said to utilize DX12 features.

[blackadder]

Eh - depends actually - consoles use AMD hardware and will be pushing this for extra horse power. We might see A-sync shaders quite a bit.

those were pretty old cores. Can they even do it? Im sure they will push every little bit of power they can (7850 or 7770ghz in them right?) clearly i don't know enough about conaoles. From what i played on xbox1 and ps4 they sure know how to make those old gpus shine for what they would do in a pc

[don_svetlio]

those were pretty old cores. Can they even do it? Im sure they will push every little bit of power they can (7850 or 7770ghz in them right?) clearly i don't know enough about conaoles. From what i played on xbox1 and ps4 they sure know how to make those old gpus shine for what they would do in a pc

GCN 1.0 has 3 extra lanes AFAIK. GCN 1.1 and 1.2 have 8 extra.

[orcinhell]

at the end of the day developers are not going to release a game that only supports a specific feature of DX12. Just like most games having DX11 having also DX10 support, I imagine games will have DX12 support and 11. especially for the next few years, PC gaming is break neck with hardware releases compared to console but I doubt we will see a single game in the next 2 years that has only DX12 support with features a certain company can't use. Nvidia has dx12 features that AMD don't have... both companies don't fully support DX 12 as far as I know.

[Oshino Shinobu]

YET, but they are said to utilize DX12 features.

So? We still only have one game to support or show how DX12 will affect performance. No good pointing out games that are going to support it in the future, hence why it is too early to make any decisions based on DX12. Also the fact that only one or two cards have full DX12 support, while most just have DX12 11_1 support. By the time games are coming out with DX12 support as standard, it will likely be time for an upgrade anyway (bear in mind games will be all developed in DX11 or earlier that are releasing soon-ish, apart from the ones that are developed on a yearly cycle maybe). 

[blackadder]

Well isn't that a bechmark or is the becnhmark just the only thing out yet?

not really sure. I just read the pc perspective thing on async not any game benchmarks. Maybe it comes down to expectations, i didn't put money on my 970 or the 290x doing very well with d12 features, like lighting or wind swept hair 2.0 ect.

[SuperCactus]

I'm really, really confused guys. I just ordered a 980ti... should I have ordered a Fury X?!

[don_svetlio]

I'm really, really confused guys. I just ordered a 980ti... should I have ordered a Fury X?!

Your choice - I personally find the Fury X to be a safer bet.

[PenguinForce]

I am planning to purchase a 980ti as well so I have been following on this subject a lot the pass few days.

 

I found this post today by Oxide:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1569897/various-ashes-of-the-singularity-dx12-benchmarks/2130#post_24379702

 

They mentioned this in the post:

 

We actually just chatted with Nvidia about Async Compute, indeed the driver hasn't fully implemented it yet, but it appeared like it was. We are working closely with them as they fully implement Async Compute. We'll keep everyone posted as we learn more.

 

I haven't read all the post that follows so not sure if this information has changed.

[don_svetlio]

I am planning to purchase a 980ti as well so I have been following on this subject a lot the pass few days.

 

I found this post today by Oxide:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1569897/various-ashes-of-the-singularity-dx12-benchmarks/2130#post_24379702

 

They mentioned this in the post:

 

We actually just chatted with Nvidia about Async Compute, indeed the driver hasn't fully implemented it yet, but it appeared like it was. We are working closely with them as they fully implement Async Compute. We'll keep everyone posted as we learn more.

 

I haven't read all the post that follows so not sure if this information has changed.

From what I've read on the subject drivers didn't really do much about it. I guess I can wait and see but it's not really looking good for nVidia - mainly because while GCN has 3 extra pipelines (on 1.0) and 8 extra (on 1.1 and 1.2), Maxwell has 0 extra pipelines for the compute tasks. I'm not entirely sure how they plan on doing this via drivers since it's a thing actually missing from the PCB of the card.

I'm expecting them to pull some sort of BS to save a sinking ship - they already lied once - point a finger at the devs accusing them of gimping their cards on purpose when they, themselves, had the code to the bench.

[SuperCactus]

Guys have you seen the updates on the controversy? Apparantrly the 980ti is quite good when it comes to async compute, according to a new homebrew benchmark.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-wanted-oxide-dev-dx12-benchmark-to-disable-certain-settings.html

"On the Maxwell architecture, up to 31 simultaneous command lists (the limit of Maxwell in graphics/compute workload) run at nearly the exact same speed - indicating Async Shader capability. Every 32 lists added would cause increasing render times, indicating the scheduler was being overloaded.

On the GCN architecture, 128 simultaneous command lists ran roughly the same, with very minor increased speeds past 64 command lists (GCN's limit) - indicating Async Shader capability. This shows the strength of AMD's ACE architecture and their scheduler.

Interestingly enough, the GTX 960 ended up having higher compute capability in this homebrew benchmark than both the R9 390x and the Fury X - but only when it was under 31 simultaneous command lists. The 980 TI had double the compute performance of either, yet only below 31 command lists. It performed roughly equal to the Fury X at up to 128 command lists."

[don_svetlio]

Guys have you seen the updates on the controversy? Apparantrly the 980ti is quite good when it comes to async compute, according to a new homebrew benchmark.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-wanted-oxide-dev-dx12-benchmark-to-disable-certain-settings.html

image.jpg

"On the Maxwell architecture, up to 31 simultaneous command lists (the limit of Maxwell in graphics/compute workload) run at nearly the exact same speed - indicating Async Shader capability. Every 32 lists added would cause increasing render times, indicating the scheduler was being overloaded.

On the GCN architecture, 128 simultaneous command lists ran roughly the same, with very minor increased speeds past 64 command lists (GCN's limit) - indicating Async Shader capability. This shows the strength of AMD's ACE architecture and their scheduler.

Interestingly enough, the GTX 960 ended up having higher compute capability in this homebrew benchmark than both the R9 390x and the Fury X - but only when it was under 31 simultaneous command lists. The 980 TI had double the compute performance of either, yet only below 31 command lists. It performed roughly equal to the Fury X at up to 128 command lists."

960 performing on the same as a Fury X? That's hard to believe to say the least.

[Nena Trinity]

I say the AMD cards will probably do better if you plan to get Windows 10 its probably the safer option...