Console Optimizations Will Improve AMD CPU Performance In Planetside 2.

[TheProfosist]

Well that's not at all what I was doing.

 

 

That's what I take issue with. The boost won't be the same. AMD will benefit more (naturally, as the optimizations are specifically for them) than Intel. I don't disagree that both will benefit, but I do disagree that both will benefit equally.

 

I dont think they will especially since PC games will still be ports and they want them to play on as many PCs as possible and all that. So why would they spend time to optimize it towards AMD? The only benefit I see coming is engines that are coded to take advantage of stuff we have had on PC for ages finally. They are not just going to hand you the game thats on the PS4 or X1 but isnt locked down or what ever.

 

 

 

8350s will in fact outperform i7 quad cores, they already are doing so in a bunch of games and applications and they're doing it without hardly any optimisations, imagine how much they will outperform i7s once real optimisations are put in place.

 

Hot any benches as ive got to see this. Id prefer if there were comparisons to Sandy-E in there since thats what the 8350 should be pitted against. Also please explain all of these optimizations you keep talking about because if it just instruction sets thats not going to be much of an optimization since its already being done by compilers.

[MetroP]

Hot any benches as ive got to see this. Id prefer if there were comparisons to Sandy-E in there since thats what the 8350 should be pitted against. Also please explain all of these optimizations you keep talking about because if it just instruction sets thats not going to be much of an optimization since its already being done by compilers.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/43783-fx-8320-vs-intel-price-and-performance/#entry573426

:

John Carmack : AMD CPUs will gain performance on intel CPUs "clock for clock" via micro architectural optimizations.

Linus Bloomberg when asked about 8350 vs 3570K : "I'd go for the FX-8350, for two reasons. Firstly, it's the same hardware vendor as PS4 and there are always some compatibility issues that devs will have to work around (particularly in SIMD coding)"

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/10522-game-developers-choose-amd-over-intel-for-gaming/

[TheProfosist]

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/43783-fx-8320-vs-intel-price-and-performance/#entry573426

:

John Carmack : AMD CPUs will gain performance on intel CPUs "clock for clock" via micro architectural optimizations.

Linus Bloomberg when asked about 8350 vs 3570K : "I'd go for the FX-8350, for two reasons. Firstly, it's the same hardware vendor as PS4 and there are always some compatibility issues that devs will have to work around (particularly in SIMD coding)"

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/10522-game-developers-choose-amd-over-intel-for-gaming/

 

My guess on then bench for farcry is that it benefited the higher clock speed more than the 2 extra cores especially since the 3930K has hyperthreading. On the next bench the 3960X crushed the 8350 in Crysis 3 which much be multi-threaded much better. The thing i dont get is why even dev's think that the AMD will have an advantage because of the consoles. I mean unless they plan to change the way they have made PC games since before the X360/PS3. 

 

The othing this is are you saying that thell have an advantage because their AMD or because they have 8 cores?

[MetroP]

My guess on then bench for farcry is that it benefited the higher clock speed more than the 2 extra cores especially since the 3930K has hyperthreading. On the next bench the 3960X crushed the 8350 in Crysis 3 which much be multi-threaded much better. The thing i dont get is why even dev's think that the AMD will have an advantage because of the consoles. I mean unless they plan to change the way they have made PC games since before the X360/PS3. 

 

The othing this is are you saying that thell have an advantage because their AMD or because they have 8 cores?

The 8350 and the i7 3820 have similar die sizes so they should be compared not the 6 core variants, but since the 3820 is not included in the benchmark you can compare it to the 3770K which is faster and the 8350 beat it in both benchmarks.

They will have an advantage because they are amd and because they have more cores, there are architectural optimizations (that's why John carmack said AMD CPUs will be faster "clock for clock") and there are multi-threaded optimizations, the intel CPUs will only benefit from the multi-threaded optimizations and will suffer from the architectural ones.

[ExDreamer]

Even Total Biscuit says that Planetside 2 is cpu dependent and it run better on AMD system than Intel i7.

 

Check @ 14:45

 

[TheProfosist]

The 8350 and the i7 3820 have similar die sizes so they should be compared not the 6 core variants, but since the 3820 is not included in the benchmark you can compare it to the 3770K which is faster and the 8350 beat it in both benchmarks.

They will have an advantage because they are amd and because they have more cores, there are architectural optimizations (that's why John carmack said AMD CPUs will be faster "clock for clock") and there are multi-threaded optimizations, the intel CPUs will only benefit from the multi-threaded optimizations and will suffer from the architectural ones.

 

Why would you force a 8 core to compare to a 4 core when theres a 6 right there in both the benches both of which are from the enthusiast lines from each company? first bench the mid range 6 and 8 core and second bench the high end 6 and 8 core.

 

I really dont see this carrying over very well especially to the current lines specifically since those 8 core APU's in the new console are 1 gen ahead of current ones. But if it does great AMD really needs to be able to compete again. They did a good job so far with the APU's but i still think there are vast improvements they can make.

 

Even if AMD can get on par with intel in PC gaming you probably wont see me switching to AMD anytime soon though because of this http://goo.gl/YP70Eg . As yes I do other things with my PC than game, things that do use quite a bit of CPU, sometimes all of it.

[TheProfosist]

Even Total Biscuit says that Planetside 2 is cpu dependent and it run better on AMD system than Intel i7.

 

Check @ 14:45

 

 

Who's Total Biscuit? Any idea why it would be so cpu dependent? Im just wondering because planetside 2 performance sees to be all over for me on my system. And when I peek over at my cpu meter on the other monitor it seems to only be maxing one core well the other all all low im not saying idle but maybe 20% at best. Im getting the same stuff as him performance wise.

 

Thats another thing this I was going to ask is how many games currently are actually CPU constrained? The reason I say this is really up until this year you could pull off a decent gaming build with a dual core i3.

[MetroP]

Why would you force a 8 core to compare to a 4 core when theres a 6 right there in both the benches both of which are from the enthusiast lines from each company? first bench the mid range 6 and 8 core and second bench the high end 6 and 8 core.

 

I really dont see this carrying over very well especially to the current lines specifically since those 8 core APU's in the new console are 1 gen ahead of current ones. But if it does great AMD really needs to be able to compete again. They did a good job so far with the APU's but i still think there are vast improvements they can make.

 

Even if AMD can get on par with intel in PC gaming you probably wont see me switching to AMD anytime soon though because of this http://goo.gl/YP70Eg . As yes I do other things with my PC than game, things that do use quite a bit of CPU, sometimes all of it.

 

Your thought process is deeply flawed, how can you compared a 180$ CPU FX 8350 to a 550$ CPU 3930K ? that makes absolutely no sense, even if you wanted to compare CPUs architecturally you would not compare a 450mm CPU 3930K to a 300mm CPU FX 8350.

If wanted to compare CPUs architecturally you would compare the CPUs that are closest in die size, that would be the 8350 and the i7 3820 and like I said the 8350 will beat it in the majority of multi-threaded workloads, including recent games and upcoming ones because of the consoles.

From a price standpoint the 8350 can be compared to the i5 4430 and the 8350 beats it in any CPU intensive workload and soon enough it will also beat it in the majority of games, the 8350 is already outperforming i7s in games, I already linked to that.

[TERAFLOP]

Why would you force a 8 core to compare to a 4 core when theres a 6 right there in both the benches both of which are from the enthusiast lines from each company? first bench the mid range 6 and 8 core and second bench the high end 6 and 8 core.

well that's idiotic, it's like comparing the 8350 to a dual core g860 processor then saying oh look it destroys it, well of course, it's a larger CPU and a more expensive one, same with the 8350 and the 3930K.

The 8350 is a quad module 8 thread CPU, the i7 3820 is a quad core 8 thread CPU as well, even though the 3820 is 100$ more expensive the 8350 will still beat it in any CPU intensive workload that's not single-threaded, that's what the 8350 was designed for and it excels at it.

[ShiverMePenguins]

well that's idiotic, it's like comparing the 8350 to a dual core g860 processor then saying oh look it destroys it, well of course, it's a larger CPU and a more expensive one, same with the 8350 and the 3930K.

The 8350 is a quad module 8 thread CPU, the i7 3820 is a quad core 8 thread CPU as well, even though the 3820 is 100$ more expensive the 8350 will still beat it in any CPU intensive workload that's not single-threaded, that's what the 8350 was designed for and it excels at it.

for the love of god, you people.

 

it is an 8 core cpu. why? because there are 8 cores. just because all eight share fetch and decode units in pairs DOES NOT mean it is 4 core, or 4 module, or 4 mcdonalds fucking fries.

 

 

jesus. no one called the original dual cores mpu's (module processing unit). same thing.

[TheProfosist]

Your thought process is deeply flawed, how can you compared a 180$ CPU FX 8350 to a 550$ CPU 3930K ? that makes absolutely no sense, even if you wanted to compare CPUs architecturally you would not compare a 450mm CPU 3930K to a 300mm CPU FX 8350.

If wanted to compare CPUs architecturally you would compare the CPUs that are closest in die size, that would be the 8350 and the i7 3820 and like I said the 8350 will beat it in the majority of multi-threaded workloads, including recent games and upcoming ones because of the consoles.

From a price standpoint the 8350 can be compared to the i5 4430 and the 8350 beats it in any CPU intensive workload and soon enough it will also beat it in the majority of games, the 8350 is already outperforming i7s in games, I already linked to that.

 

You compare where their aimed in the market not price otherwise that would be like saying a 7990 and a Titan  and a 7970 and 780 are not comparable which I think you would be one of the first people to say that they are. i just check the prices and man these are cheap now I remeber when the top bulldozer chip was $300 at launch and they cut it $50 just so it would sell. So AMD's pulling the extremely low comparable price card like they sis with the APU's initially. i dont know if youve noticed but I sure have the APU's pricing is slowly going up. I imagine once the gain ground the same will happen with these. I guess the 6 cores would now have to go up against those 220 watt TDP monstrosities. And theses 8 cores against the 3820 (4820K soon?) then. I remember when AMD launched bulldozer and relaunched the FX line fully intending on competing with Sandy-E, yes including the 6 cores. Looks like they changed their plans significantly. Both AMD and Intel have their lines all screwed up compared to Phenom II and 1st gen i series and prior. AMD was a good option back then and you could get the 6 core for nearly the price of the i7-920. So yea my bad there no clue AMD had essentially slashed the prices of their enthusiast line with piledriver. The one main drawback they still have is power/heat and I think Haswell-E is doing to be a game changing platform.

 

I just posted a link with the 3820 benches the highly threaded stuff like x264 the AMD takes the lead as more cores is better for something like that as well as for compression. In medium threaded their right on par if ones ahead is the intel by a very small negligible amount though but then you look at lightly or no threaded and the intel blows the AMD away even though the AMD has a higher clock speed. There are also no benches for things that are memory intensive where theres good possibility for the intel to take the lead. You could say AMD was ahead of their time with their architecture but really they didnt look at the market. Hopefully the change in games will lead to changes in other stuff as well. Do you know how many apps dont really gain anything with new hardware compared to stuff from 5+ years ago being all 32bit and single core and if the use DirectX/Direct3D their still using 9 or in some cases even 8.

[TheProfosist]

for the love of god, you people.

 

it is an 8 core cpu. why? because there are 8 cores. just because all eight share fetch and decode units in pairs DOES NOT mean it is 4 core, or 4 module, or 4 mcdonalds fucking fries.

 

 

jesus. no one called the original dual cores mpu's (module processing unit). same thing.

 

yes 8 core is 8 cores at least is not like Pentium D's and C2Q's which looked like the glued 2 pentium 4's and 2 C2D's together.

[TERAFLOP]

for the love of god, you people.

 

it is an 8 core cpu. why? because there are 8 cores. just because all eight share fetch and decode units in pairs DOES NOT mean it is 4 core, or 4 module, or 4 mcdonalds fucking fries.

 

 

jesus. no one called the original dual cores mpu's (module processing unit). same thing.

AMD calls them modules, the 8350 does in fact have 4 of them and 8 cores/threads, A single core on the 8350 only takes half as much space as a single core on the i7 3820.

That's why the 8350 (315mm) has a similar die size to the i7 3820 (294mm), that's why comparing a single core from an AMD CPU to an intel CPU is not fair as it's only half the size.

 

[TERAFLOP]

You compare where their aimed in the market not price.

This sentence contradicts itself, market position is entirely dependent on price.

[TheProfosist]

AMD calls them modules, the 8350 does in fact have 4 of them and 8 cores/threads, A single core on the 8350 only takes half as much space as a single core on the i7 3820.

That's why the 8350 (315mm) has a similar die size to the i7 3820 (294mm), that's why comparing a single core from an AMD CPU to an intel CPU is not fair as it's only half the size.

 

 

it has more transistors so it takes up more space, whats your point there?

[EmmaLong]

that would be like saying a 7990 and a Titan  and a 7970 and 780 are not comparable which I think you would be one of the first people to say that they are.

These are in FACT not comparable as the cost of making them varies a whole lot and their price in the market also varies very much.

A 7990 costs more to make than a Titan, a 780 costs more to make than a 7970.

Also the FX series were NEVER trageted at the intel 6 cores, the cheapest intel 6 core 3930k launched for 650$, the most expensive 8 core AMD CPU at the time, the 8150 launched for 260$.

[TERAFLOP]

it has more transistors so it takes up more space, whats your point there?

My point is that you're comparing totally different products, one is significantly more expensive to buy (3930k is 3 times as expensive as the 8350 ) and is in fact larger in size (450mm vs 300mm), of course the larger more expensive CPU will be faster.

You should compare the 8350 to the 3820, where the price is closer to parity and the die size is almost identical.

Bigger chips are more powerful, is that hard to understand ?

You can't go about comparing a 780 to a 7970 expecting the same performance, because it's a larger chip and more expensive.

[TheProfosist]

This sentence contradicts itself, market position is entirely dependent on price.

 

position yes but not who your marketing to and did you read anything else I wrote?

 

Their FX line is supposed to be marketed toward enthusiasts but its currently in the pricing of intel higher end mainstream cpu's because it wasnt selling where they wanted it too. Right now it may be a good buy but well have to see what happens with subsequent revisions and releases because I can almost guarantee once they can start competing fully prices will slowly rise. If they dont intel will no doubt come in swinging since the have the money and resources to do so.

[TechFan@ic]

position yes but not who your marketing to and did you read anything else I wrote?

 

Their FX line is supposed to be marketed toward enthusiasts but its currently in the pricing of intel higher end mainstream cpu's because it wasnt selling where they wanted it too. Right now it may be a good buy but well have to see what happens with subsequent revisions and releases because I can almost guarantee once they can start competing fully prices will slowly rise. If they dont intel will no doubt come in swinging since the have the money and resources to do so.

I bought an FX 8320 for 140$ and I'm extremely happy, that's all what matters.

[TheProfosist]

These are in FACT not comparable as the cost of making them varies a whole lot and their price in the market also varies very much.

A 7990 costs more to make than a Titan, a 780 costs more to make than a 7970.

Also the FX series were NEVER trageted at the intel 6 cores, the cheapest intel 6 core 3930k launched for 650$, the most expensive 8 core AMD CPU at the time, the 8150 launched for 260$.

 

Those GPUs are aimed at the same tier in the market price does not always dictate this. As for the cpus based on cost no but based on the market they aimed at selling to yes, especially how they were marketing the thing. I mean I dont know if you remember all the hype they maid with all their claims, many of them sadly were never backed up. I mean who wouldnt have wanted all the stuff they said I sure did at that price point! AMD and previously ATI have always been cheaper in the same markets as intel and nvidia or have even cheaper options than what either offers, If your looking for performance for cheaper they were ALWAYS the best option. The only time this changed was with Sandy and Bulldozer. Intel did something great and AMD did not. Also dont forget there are reasons to but Intel/Nvidia vs AMD besides pure horsepower. Personally cant wait for things to get back to the way they were i knew it would only be time I could tell with what intel was doing with their mainstream platform. I hadnt been watching AMD besides the APUs bescause thats all I was interested in for low end laptop and HTPC's.

[TheProfosist]

I bought an FX 8320 for 140$ and I'm extremely happy, that's all what matters.

 

you should be it seems right now. The board I would want is only $200 too http://goo.gl/4ipJWV . Seems like their on there way back cant wait for next gen. I bet intel is going to bump up processing power next tic cycle as AMD gave them more than enough time to optimize power significantly.

[Cyberpunk177]

Ahhh...when will the wars end...what people don't understand is that multi-threaded performance boosts will benefit all parties...What most people don't realize is how much of a gap currently exists between Intel and AMD cpu's. Yes the engines will be better optimized,but GPU's are now going to come with ARM processors built in which will mean they'll rely less on CPU performance. My advice; Just don't raise your hopes up until you see how the thing performs,then you can be the judge....marketing my friends,marketing...if you have an AMD cpu fine,if you have Quad core intel cpu's fine!

[TheProfosist]

Ahhh...when will the wars end...what people don't understand is that multi-threaded performance boosts will benefit all parties...What most people don't realize is how much of a gap currently exists between Intel and AMD cpu's. Yes the engines will be better optimized,but GPU's are now going to come with ARM processors built in which will mean they'll rely less on CPU performance. My advice; Just don't raise your hopes up until you see how the thing performs,then you can be the judge....marketing my friends,marketing...if you have an AMD cpu fine,if you have Quad core intel cpu's fine!

 

>_<     Did you just try summarize our discussion in a paragraph?

[Kuzma]

Ahhh...when will the wars end...what people don't understand is that multi-threaded performance boosts will benefit all parties...What most people don't realize is how much of a gap currently exists between Intel and AMD cpu's. Yes the engines will be better optimized,but GPU's are now going to come with ARM processors built in which will mean they'll rely less on CPU performance. My advice; Just don't raise your hopes up until you see how the thing performs,then you can be the judge....marketing my friends,marketing...if you have an AMD cpu fine,if you have Quad core intel cpu's fine!

The 8350 will only be 25% ahead of the 4670k (and 4770k) and the 3930k is going to be a BEAST for gaming by being the best price/performance cpu.

[Cyberpunk177]

The 8350 will only be 25% ahead of the 4670k (and 4770k) and the 3930k is going to be a BEAST for gaming by being the best price/performance cpu.

Do you have benchmarks?