Price/Performance Graphs for Electronics

[Lukiose]

Oh you mean the Precision M4700? That's sitting on the desk right across from me?

Which is twice the size and signficantly more heavier than a comparable macbook pro?

And which also btw costs more if you configure them somewhat equal?

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD103LL/A

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=swct475&model_id=precision-m4700&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&

Ok. Dell Precision M4700 2.78kg (With additional airbay and msata filled). Macbook Pro 2.56kg (Stock). Significantly heavier? Nope.

Costs more? The Dell Precision M4700 has nearly double the specifications at $2150 than a maxed out Macbook Pro at $3050.

 

http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/Dell_Precision_M4700_Spec_Sheet.pdf

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP669 - The refurbished 15" Macbook Pro will feature slightly higher specifications and a lower weight, but with a much higher premium & hence cannot be compared in the same price range.

 

If you don't see the difference between an AIO that's smaller than many 27" monitors, with only one power cable connected and a mini+itx system with at least 3 cables, I might no be able to help you. But anyway, why mini-ITX and no Full Tower?

A mini-ITX chassis has much greater mobility than an AIO or a full tower, whilst boasting incredible hardware capabilities. Which fulfills your frequently-touted criteria: mobility.

 

 

1) Because you can't

As i have stated, i wish for this thread to be as civilised as possible, if you cannot comply to this criteria by being polite to other members then i implore you kindly depart from this thread henceforth, before i employ the assistance of moderators.

[DirkaFat]

1) Because you can't

2) Because people buy iMacs for the fact that they are (at least in the buyers eyes) good looking All-In-Ones and not for performance/price.

You could make great looking mini itx system get an IPS monitor that can outperform while keeping prices at least a bit lower. And yeah I can't find a direct competitor to the all in one (I'm tired as well), but so what if I can't? I gave a reasonable windows alternative...

 

Edit: Takes about the same space, a couple more wires though... Costs less, performs better...

You can go to newegg or amazon and "build" an itx system that can      ^            ^

[Lukiose]

Interesting flow of information, seems relatively one-sided though, any Apple backers reading can chip in your opinions? :/

[IvanSnipedYu]

Interesting flow of information, seems relatively one-sided though, any Apple backers reading can chip in your opinions? :/

I'm going to have to go back to my original claim of apple having the more reliable os. 

 

 

Stability

In years past, PCs were known to crash, and users would get the “blue screen,” but Microsoft has made their operating systems more reliable in recent years. On the other hand, Mac hardware and software have tended to be stable, and crashes occur infrequently.

 

That is a quote off intels website. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/tech-tips-and-tricks/pc-vs-mac-the-big-debate.html

But in the end I believe that both are winners. Which is why they are still competitors after such a long time. Each having their own perks and flaws.

[MrSuperb]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD103LL/A

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=swct475&model_id=precision-m4700&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&

Ok. Dell Precision M4700 2.78kg (With additional airbay and msata filled). Macbook Pro 2.56kg (Stock). Significantly heavier? Nope.

Costs more? The Dell Precision M4700 has nearly double the specifications at $2150 than a maxed out Macbook Pro at $3050.

 

I said 2kg as in Macbook Pro Retina. The old Macbook Pro is basicaly a phase-out model

 

 

1) The weight - Dell 3.442kg with the 9 cell battery - Apple 2,026kg   ..... Dell 70% more

2) The AC-Adapter - Dell 0.664kg - Apple 0,321kg  .....  Dell 100% more

3) The M4700 is up to 36.5mm in height - The Macbook Pro Retina is up to 18mm in height ... Dell 103% more

[YellowDragon]

Although I personally think and guarantee it's the most reliable os, that still makes it an opinion. In the countless times I've used a mac I've never encountered a crash. However, on windows I've had it crash on me numerous time. Don't get me wrong, I love windows. In fact, its my operating system of choice. I just believe that ios is more reliable, especially when you're doing something important.

Hate to burst your bubble however EVERY system in the world eventually goes down due to software crashes, though you personally have not experienced a crash many more have, its a fact of software engineering that all operating systems are going to have faults and not one user experience is indicative of the entire userbase. Furthermore the parts that are used within the laptops are no different then those that go into another, their motherboards fail just like other laptops they are not the end all be all laptop in reliability.  Unless you engineer a laptop to have multiple redundant systems and multiple copys of operating systems running in parallel on different individual pieces of hardware to prevent hardware errors and faults from interfering with operation it WILL eventually fail, to make a "Vital system" you need to have redundancy of which Macs certainly do not have. 

 

This kind of redundancy is foreign to consumers as its only used on extremely important servers or mass transits systems like trains which are required to NEVER fail during their operational lifespan. it is also extremely expensive for this kind of system.

 

Also IOS? since when is that an actual useful OS in comparison to Windows which is an x86 platform? I hope you mean OSX the x86 Apple OS.

[MrSuperb]

A mini-ITX chassis has much greater mobility than an AIO or a full tower, whilst boasting incredible hardware capabilities. Which fulfills your frequently-touted criteria: mobility.

 

You DON'T buy a iMac for portabilty! and how is a mITX+Monitor more mobile?

[IvanSnipedYu]

Hate to burst your bubble however EVERY system in the world eventually goes down due to software crashes, though you personally have not experienced a crash many more have, its a fact of software engineering that all operating systems are going to have faults and not one user experience is indicative of the entire userbase. Furthermore the parts that are used within the laptops are no different then those that go into another, their motherboards fail just like other laptops they are not the end all be all laptop in reliability.  Unless you engineer a laptop to have multiple redundant systems and multiple copys of operating systems running in parallel on different individual pieces of hardware to prevent hardware errors and faults from interfering with operation it WILL eventually fail, to make a "Vital system" you need to have redundancy of which Macs certainly do not have. 

 

This kind of redundancy is foreign to consumers as its only used on extremely important servers or mass transits systems like trains which are required to NEVER fail during their operational lifespan. it is also extremely expensive for this kind of system.

 

Also IOS? since when is that an actual useful OS in comparison to Windows which is an x86 platform? I hope you mean OSX the x86 Apple OS.

I'm not a mac user so I wouldn't know what to call it. The only times I've used mac is the 11 years i've been in school. I am also strictly talking about os failures. It's been a known fact that Windows have higher failing rates then Mac. AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT OSX NEVER CRASHES!

[MrSuperb]

You could make great looking mini itx system get an IPS monitor that can outperform while keeping prices at least a bit lower. And yeah I can't find a direct competitor to the all in one (I'm tired as well), but so what if I can't? I gave a reasonable windows alternative...

 

Edit: Takes about the same space, a couple more wires though... Costs less, performs better...

You can go to newegg or amazon and "build" an itx system that can      ^            ^

 

If you want an mITX system you can just buy a similar mini itx system and putOS X on it. It's even cheaper than a windows license.

How could I know? I have a mITX System with both Windows 8 and OS X 10.8 on it ...

[MrSuperb]

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD103LL/A

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=swct475&model_id=precision-m4700&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&

Costs more? The Dell Precision M4700 has nearly double the specifications at $2150 than a maxed out Macbook Pro at $3050.

That is just bullshit and you know that!

[Lukiose]

I said 2kg as in Macbook Pro Retina. The old Macbook Pro is basicaly a phase-out model

 

 

1) The weight - Dell 3.442kg with the 9 cell battery - Apple 2,026kg   ..... Dell 70% more

2) The AC-Adapter - Dell 0.664kg - Apple 0,321kg  .....  Dell 100% more

3) The M4700 is up to 36.5mm in height - The Macbook Pro Retina is up to 18mm in height ... Dell 103% more

Except that the (Not even taking other products in comparison) Dell Precision M4700 boasts a full fledged workstation Quadro relative to a GT650M& a faster processor @ ~$2000.

On the other hand, this > http://store.apple.com/us/configure/ME665LL/A?#hardware - $3049 with similar storage & ram.

 

 

That is just bullshit and you know that!

Rather than spouting foul language here and there with no backing of your own claims, please substantiate your arguments. Please enlighten everyone reading on how that is that 'bullshit' when it's the official US store & spreadsheet data. Unless (using your language) you're saying a Macbook Pro is bullshit which in my own formulated opinion, i agree.

 

 

You DON'T buy a iMac for portabilty! and how is a mITX+Monitor more mobile?

That has been what you've been touting for the previous page of discussions. If not so, what do you purchase an iMac for? The advantage of having a single cable connection compared to three, not taking into account external peripherals? May i kindly recommend you an affordable purchase of an incredible innovation - the cable tie. You can even purchase a large packet of cable ties at just $10! http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=507844

[DirkaFat]

I'm not a mac user so I wouldn't know what to call it. The only times I've used mac is the 11 years i've been in school. I am also strictly talking about os failures. It's been a known fact that Windows have higher failing rates then Mac.

I've never heard of Windows crashing for no reason. It could crash if something overheats, OC failure, etc. But it could go both ways, I'm pretty sure.

If you want an mITX system you can just buy a similar mini itx system and putOS X on it. It's even cheaper than a windows license.

How could I know? I have a mITX System with both Windows 8 and OS X 10.8 on it ...

That's true, but this thread is about electronics. So, you can see that getting hardware with apple branding makes no sense compared to building a system and installing ios or windows. 

 

And besides with ios, you can't play many games on it. In terms of productivity or professional use, I don't see a difference between them, except there might be a few programs compatible for windows and not ios. 

[MrSuperb]

Except that the (Not even taking other products in comparison) Dell Precision M4700 boasts a full fledged workstation Quadro relative to a GT650M& a faster processor @ ~$2000.

On the other hand, this > http://store.apple.com/us/configure/ME665LL/A?#hardware - $3049 with similar storage & ram.

You know what's the difference between a Quadro and a Geforce? Mainly the driver. Guess what who makes the drivers for the Geforce in the Macbook Pro!

 

The Dell with 512GB ssd costs about 2800$, the Macbook Pro Retina costs about 2800$ (3050$ with same CPU)

 

$250 more for

- half the size

- almost half the weight (incl. ac adapter)

- far superior screen

- better battery life

[MrSuperb]

That's true, but this thread is about electronics. So, you can see that getting hardware with apple branding makes no sense compared to building a system and installing ios or windows. 

 

And besides with ios, you can't play many games on it. In terms of productivity or professional use, I don't see a difference between them, except there might be a few programs compatible for windows and not ios. 

 

How does getting an iMac no sense? There are MANY reason why someone wants a good looking iMac.

Ever heard about Steam for OS X? For all other game you can just install Windows if you want ...

There are quite a few programs only available on OS X.

[IvanSnipedYu]

I've never heard of Windows crashing for no reason. It could crash if something overheats, OC failure, etc. But it could go both ways, I'm pretty sure.

That's true, but this thread is about electronics. So, you can see that getting hardware with apple branding makes no sense compared to building a system and installing ios or windows. 

 

And besides with ios, you can't play many games on it. In terms of productivity or professional use, I don't see a difference between them, except there might be a few programs compatible for windows and not ios.

I have to agree with you. Most of the time when I crash on windows, its mostly driver issues.  Making that my fault. There's always a reason for crashing, but, I base my arguments on what I read. And from what I read it's that windows crashes more often then OSX. Of course from reliable sources. Frankly, I believe both platforms are great options.

[MrSuperb]

BTW show me an mITX System + comparable 27" IPS screen (AR coating, not matte!, pre calibrated)

[DirkaFat]

How does getting an iMac no sense? There are MANY reason why someone wants a good looking iMac.

Ever heard about Steam for OS X? For all other game you can just install Windows if you want ...

There are quite a few programs only available on OS X.

Less cables? 

There are some games that work for ios, and you can have a separate system with windows, but it can be annoying, higher electricity bill, heat, time consuming, etc.

I'm not a professional user so can you list them?

[Lyons]

Interesting flow of information, seems relatively one-sided though, any Apple backers reading can chip in your opinions? :/

 

Sigh... Why won't you PC elitists realise that specs aren't the only things that drive cost? Thinks like screen, trackpad, keyboard, build, battery tech, R&D, support, etc. are also contributing factors, and the fact that your graphs don't represent this makes them invalid. The rMBP and MBA are the best laptops in their respective segments and anyone who's owned or used a Macbook for a significant amount of time knows this. Please don't speak from inexperience.

[DirkaFat]

BTW show me an mITX System + comparable 27" IPS screen (AR coating, not matte!, pre calibrated)

You think AR coating and pre calibrated screen justifies a higher price, and lower performance?

 

(Why not matte?)

[Lukiose]

You know what's the difference between a Quadro and a Geforce? Mainly the driver. Guess what who makes the drivers for the Geforce in the Macbook Pro!

 

The Dell with 512GB ssd costs about 2800$, the Macbook Pro Retina costs about 2800$ (3050$ with same CPU)

 

$250 more for

- half the size

- almost half the weight (incl. ac adapter)

- far superior screen

- better battery life

You're going down the slippery slope, please remember that your original presumption was that this was a workstation laptop. (Professional usage, media editing, graphical processing.)

As for your empty comparison between the Quadro and the GT650m - which you casually referred to as a 'GeForce'. The Quadro may not boast a gaming performance equal to that of a GT650m, but for the uses mentioned for this particular debate the Quadro performs noticeable quicker in CAD applications

 

How does getting an iMac no sense? There are MANY reason why someone wants a good looking iMac.

Ever heard about Steam for OS X? For all other game you can just install Windows if you want ...

There are quite a few programs only available on OS X.

And yet your argument contains a fallacy, there are many more programs only available on Windows.

[MrSuperb]

You think AR coating and pre calibrated screen justifies a higher price, and lower performance?

 

(Why not matte?)

because matte != anti-reflective

The color reproduction of an AR-coated display doesn't wash out colors like matte display do in bright working spaces ...

 

Also how is the performance worse?

[DirkaFat]

Sigh... Why won't you PC elitists realise that specs aren't the only things that drive cost? Thinks like screen, trackpad, keyboard, build, R&D, support, etc. are also contributing factors, and the fact that your graphs don't represent this makes them invalid. The rMBP and MBA are the best laptops in their respective segments and anyone who's owned or used a Macbook for a significant amount of time knows this. Please don't speak from inexperience.

I dunno man. In terms of keyboard, screen, trackpad, and overall build quality, PC manufacturers have been catching up.

[MrSuperb]

You're going down the slippery slope, please remember that your original presumption was that this was a workstation laptop. (Professional usage, media editing, graphical processing.)

As for your empty comparison between the Quadro and the GT650m - which you casually referred to as a 'GeForce'. The Quadro may not boast a gaming performance equal to that of a GT650m, but for the uses mentioned for this particular debate the Quadro performs noticeable quicker in CAD applications

 

And yet your argument contains a fallacy, there are many more programs only available on Windows.

 

Guess what, it is called Geforce GT 650m. The same way as the 'Quadro' is called Quadro K2000m ....

They perform quiet similar. A Quadro won't perform better in CAD applications under OSX, than a Geforce would! Get your facts straigt!

[TideRower]

Less cables? 

There are some games that work for ios, and you can have a separate system with windows, but it can be annoying, higher electricity bill, heat, time consuming, etc.

I'm not a professional user so can you list them?

The only program I know is Final Cut.

 

Sigh... Why won't you PC elitists realise that specs aren't the only things that drive cost? Thinks like screen, trackpad, keyboard, build, battery tech, R&D, support, etc. are also contributing factors, and the fact that your graphs don't represent this makes them invalid. The rMBP and MBA are the best laptops in their respective segments and anyone who's owned or used a Macbook for a significant amount of time knows this. Please don't speak from inexperience.

I agree and if you compare the MBA with similar Ultrabooks (which have the same built quality) the price difference is not really existing anymore.

[MrSuperb]

I dunno man. In terms of keyboard, screen, trackpad, and overall build quality, PC manufacturers have been catching up.

 

They haven't. They are getting closer though.