Help with network setup

[Znow]

Hello, I am soon to be moving house, the 27th of this month exactly. I live in the UK and the broadband provider I am going to be using is Virgin Media who offer a fibre-optic service and advertise 160 down and 90 upload speeds, The house I am going to be moving into will need a bit more of an advanced networking solution than just the ISP's router. I am very inexperienced when it comes to networking, I would like some help on what I should buy and how on earth I should set it up, Firstly I am planning on having a Netduma router for my workstation and a UniFi access point on each of the 3 floors. Firstly what else would I need to make this work? Honestly I do not even know what a Network switch does so that could give an idea of what kind of situation I am in. I have read a bit up on PoE and plan to use it with the UniFi system (if there is a choice) so could I please have some suggestions as to what I should do with this project and any other things I would need. Fortunately I am not too worried about budget but I really do not intend to drop a bomb on this so reasonable but relatively a 'pro-sumer' solution would be perfect, I'm not sure whether or not this is too vague of a question but I look forward to your replies,

Thanks, 

-George

 

The Netduma router can be found here:

http://netduma.com/

And the UniFi system

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

[dalekphalm]

Hello, I am soon to be moving house, the 27th of this month exactly. I live in the UK and the broadband provider I am going to be using is Virgin Media who offer a fibre-optic service and advertise 160 down and 90 upload speeds, The house I am going to be moving into will need a bit more of an advanced networking solution than just the ISP's router. I am very inexperienced when it comes to networking, I would like some help on what I should buy and how on earth I should set it up, Firstly I am planning on having a Netduma router for my workstation and a UniFi access point on each of the 3 floors. Firstly what else would I need to make this work? Honestly I do not even know what a Network switch does so that could give an idea of what kind of situation I am in. I have read a bit up on PoE and plan to use it with the UniFi system (if there is a choice) so could I please have some suggestions as to what I should do with this project and any other things I would need. Fortunately I am not too worried about budget but I really do not intend to drop a bomb on this so reasonable but relatively a 'pro-sumer' solution would be perfect, I'm not sure whether or not this is too vague of a question but I look forward to your replies,

Thanks, 

-George

 

The Netduma router can be found here:

http://netduma.com/

And the UniFi system

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

Your basic idea for setup should be totally fine.

 

Basically, there are 4 different devices you could be looking at:

 

1. Modem - This is the box Virgin Media will give you. It will take a Fibre Optic Connection and convert that into Ethernet - these are often called Media Converters.

 

2. Router - This is the device that will perform "NAT" - Network Address Translation - it creates your "LAN" - Local Area Network - by taking the single IP Address your modem gives you (Called the WAN IP Address - WAN = Wide Area Network: Eg: The Internet, in this case), and then converts that WAN IP into all the various Local IP Addresses you'll have on your network (Eg: PC, laptop, xbox, smartphone on WIFI, etc). This will likely contain a hardware firewall as well.

 

3. Switch - Most routers include an integrated 4-port switch, but the basics of a Switch is that it takes one ethernet port, and gives you many more. It's different from a router in that it does not create a LAN Network (Unless you're looking at Layer 3 switches and stuff - don't worry about that here though, that's all enterprise grade equipment). The benefit of a switch is that if your router does not have enough ethernet ports for all your hardwired devices, you simply plug an ethernet cable from the Router into the Switch. Now any devices plugged into the switch will think they are plugged right into the Router.

 

4. Access Point - Wireless AP's are often included in consumer grade Routers, but can also be purchased as separate appliances. They're pretty straight forward. Plug an ethernet cable into them, and they create a wireless network (WIFI).

 

Your current layout includes devices number 1, 2, and 4.

 

A switch is entirely optional. You only need one if you're going to be plugging in more than 4 devices via Ethernet. HOWEVER, you did mention that you're going to be using 3 AP's (One per floor). So that means you'll be using 3 of the 4 ports via the AP's, and then presumably one more for your main PC. That leaves you with no spares (Or one spare, if you're gonna connect your PC via WIFI).

 

I would suggest purchasing a Gigabit Switch to go with your network. You don't need anything fancy. Managed Switches are probably unnecessary. Just decide how many ports you want (5, 8, 16, 24 are the common variants). Make sure to get a Gigabit switch though.

 

I particularly like the TP-Link Switches for 5 or 8 ports:

 

5-Port - $18 USD

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG105-Gigabit-Ethernet-Desktop/dp/B00A128S24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437243230&sr=8-1&keywords=tp-link+5+port+gigabit+switch

 

8-Port - $25 USD

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG108-1000Mbps-Desktop-Gigabit/dp/B00A121WN6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437243242&sr=8-1&keywords=tp-link+8+port+gigabit+switch

 

16-Port - $59 USD

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1016-1000Mbps-17-3-inch-Rackmountable/dp/B002HAJQGA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1437243279&sr=8-2&keywords=tp-link+16+port+gigabit+switch

 

24-Port - $88 USD

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1024-1000Mbps-Rackmountable-Capacity/dp/B003BU0EKW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437243288&sr=8-1&keywords=tp-link+24+port+gigabit+switch

 

You can choose alternate brands if you want. D-Link makes decent prosumer/small business Gigabit switches. Cisco, HP, Edge are all options too. Ubiquiti may also make switches too.

[Znow]

Thank you very much, that was really helpful, So when it is all installed will there be any setup or will the AP's just take the PoE connection and work? Also with the different AP's are they individual networks or will devices jump from one to another as one is out of range etc... I plan on getting a switch as I may want some powerline connections in the future for many things... Now this may sound really stupid but I do plug the access points into the switch and link the switch with the Netduma router and it should in theory just work?

Thanks, 

George

[dalekphalm]

Thank you very much, that was really helpful, So when it is all installed will there be any setup or will the AP's just take the PoE connection and work? Also with the different AP's are they individual networks or will devices jump from one to another as one is out of range etc... I plan on getting a switch as I may want some powerline connections in the future for many things... Now this may sound really stupid but I do plug the access points into the switch and link the switch with the Netduma router and it should in theory just work?

Thanks, 

George

There will definitely be some setup involved with the AP's. You'll have to configure a few things: Which IP Address each AP uses (Unless they just request one from the DHCP server on your router, which should be an option), configure and name the SSID (The WIFI Name), and what security/encryption type and the security password.

 

Unless you buy the WIFI Controller (or the Ubiquiti Router that also has this capability), then there won't be any central management of the AP's. They'll each be controlled independently.

 

However, you can simply give all three of them the exact same SSID, along with the same Security/Encryption and password. That way, your devices will just choose whichever one is closest when connecting to WIFI. Moving between floors may cause a small connection drop though, as your device moves from one AP to the next. It won't be noticeable unless you're like, in the middle of a Skype call.

 

Yes, you should plug the AP's into the switch, then the switch into the Router. However, as stated above, the AP's will require configuration. Specific setup will depend on the model of AP you buy, but there should be some basic instructions included in the box. The Ubiquiti website probably also has video guides, and there will be video guides on YouTube as well.

[Znow]

Ok so here are the products I have decided on getting, 

UniFi  3 Pack,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008M8GZQU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A1CSD37BFGDG5P

UniFi Outdoor+

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00I4QI58Q?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_2&smid=A1E9J69HEAFOUP

Netduma Gaming Router

http://netduma.com/

TP-Link 8 Port Switch

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A121WN6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

 

So I will have to route another PoE cable to an outdoor wall but that should not be too difficult. Are there any recommendations or upgrades anyone would suggest? I really want to nail this and not have to worry about it for a while,

Thanks,

George

[Znow]

I have just spotted something that could be rather useful, It is a desktop switch but it has PoE so I would not have to run separate injectors for each AP, Is this something that could be recommended? the exact one I am looking at is here,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linksys-Business-Desktop-Gigabit-Unmanaged-x/dp/B00GQATMFM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437257110&sr=8-1&keywords=PoE+switch+6+port
George

[dalekphalm]

Ok so here are the products I have decided on getting, 

UniFi  3 Pack,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008M8GZQU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A1CSD37BFGDG5P

UniFi Outdoor+

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00I4QI58Q?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_2&smid=A1E9J69HEAFOUP

Netduma Gaming Router

http://netduma.com/

TP-Link 8 Port Switch

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A121WN6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

 

So I will have to route another PoE cable to an outdoor wall but that should not be too difficult. Are there any recommendations or upgrades anyone would suggest? I really want to nail this and not have to worry about it for a while,

Thanks,

George

Looks like a good start. Anyone else have input?

[dalekphalm]

I have just spotted something that could be rather useful, It is a desktop switch but it has PoE so I would not have to run separate injectors for each AP, Is this something that could be recommended? the exact one I am looking at is here,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linksys-Business-Desktop-Gigabit-Unmanaged-x/dp/B00GQATMFM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437257110&sr=8-1&keywords=PoE+switch+6+port

George

That's not bad at all. Obviously it's a LOT more expensive then the 8-port (or even 16-port) switch I linked above. But it gives you PoE scalability, with 8 PoE ports. You'd for sure have to buy 3 PoE injectors (Unless the AP's come with them), so in the long run it might save you money.

[TheCaptain53]

@Znow, I know that a lot of houses in the UK won't have structured network cabling in a home property, so none of this may even be an option.

If it does, then you lucky bastard! If not, then you will find yourself limited in your requirements.

In terms of the WiFi, without structured cabling, your life has become a lot harder. The only WiFi solution I know of that doesn't require data cables straight to each AP is a Ruckus system, and they're anything but cheap. However, I don't work with any other Wireless solution, so there could be a different product which does the same thing.

If you can, plop your workstation next to your router and just plug it in. Job done! 

Virgin Media quote that lines can reach those speeds, but it's unlikely. It would be a best case scenario, so a more likely speed would be 25-50 Mbps down (which is still very good in a home use scenario). It's also fibre to the cab, so there's still technically copper running into your house.

I've never heard of that router or that wireless solution. For the router, a TP-Link or Draytek would be good (although the Draytek is more of a premium option). 

[Znow]

I think it might also be a good idea as in the future I might want to add a CCTV camera or two, At this point is it worth getting a tiny rack otherwise all of this will be shoved on the floor under a desk. Are there any good ideas regarding storage as I believe having a rack for one switch is a bit overkill unless there is a way to store the modem and router in there also, 

Thanks, 

-George

[dalekphalm]

I think it might also be a good idea as in the future I might want to add a CCTV camera or two, At this point is it worth getting a tiny rack otherwise all of this will be shoved on the floor under a desk. Are there any good ideas regarding storage as I believe having a rack for one switch is a bit overkill unless there is a way to store the modem and router in there also, 

Thanks, 

-George

You can purchase rackmount shelving units, so you can throw the switch and modem onto the shelve and at least utilize more of the rack.

 

You also don't need to buy a huge rack. You can get a 12U or 24U rack (U being the "unit" of measurement. It's a specific measurement in inches that I forget the number for). You can even get little wall mounted Racks too.

 

Or you don't need a rack at all. You can store that switch on a table or shelf. Just make sure there's adequate ventilation and that they don't get too hot.

 

@TheCaptain53 Ubiquiti is an INCREDIBLY popular "Prosumer" series of WIFI and network solutions. Linus reviewed some of their products, I do believe. I've never heard of the router either, but @Znow seems to be set on getting it. I'm sure it'll be totally fine for his needs.

[TheCaptain53]

@TheCaptain53 Ubiquiti is an INCREDIBLY popular "Prosumer" series of WIFI and network solutions. Linus reviewed some of their products, I do believe. I've never heard of the router either, but @Znow seems to be set on getting it. I'm sure it'll be totally fine for his needs.

I've not worked in Networking for a huge amount of time, so I'm not all there yet. :') If it can mesh the APs, then awesome! If there's structured cabling, then even better.

The router would be fine for a home use scenario which is fair enough. If I were decking out my home network, I'd at least get myself a decent router i.e. Draytek

Seriously, that is one badass router.

[Znow]

@Znow, I know that a lot of houses in the UK won't have structured network cabling in a home property, so none of this may even be an option.

If it does, then you lucky bastard! If not, then you will find yourself limited in your requirements.

In terms of the WiFi, without structured cabling, your life has become a lot harder. The only WiFi solution I know of that doesn't require data cables straight to each AP is a Ruckus system, and they're anything but cheap. However, I don't work with any other Wireless solution, so there could be a different product which does the same thing.

If you can, plop your workstation next to your router and just plug it in. Job done! 

Virgin Media quote that lines can reach those speeds, but it's unlikely. It would be a best case scenario, so a more likely speed would be 25-50 Mbps down (which is still very good in a home use scenario). It's also fibre to the cab, so there's still technically copper running into your house.

I've never heard of that router or that wireless solution. For the router, a TP-Link or Draytek would be good (although the Draytek is more of a premium option). 

 

Hi, the house does not have structured network cabling unfortunately but I plan to hire an electrician to run the ethernet cables through the ceiling to each of the AP's, and back into the third floor where my workstation and router etc will all be based. About the network speeds I use BT at the moment and I can get over 90 Mbps down with an advertised speed of 100 which I guess is very lucky but the current homeowner where I am going to be moving in does not even have a broadband subscription so I have no clue how it will be, if virgin ends up being a bit pants then I can always go back to BT as I am not moving that far so hopefully the speeds will be similar. The Netduma router is a rather unknown one I must say but its features greatly appeal to me but could someone please check out the website and see if it is suitable for what I am planning as I don't want it to create a bottleneck and I'm sure I can cope with another router and lose some specific functionality. Regarding the wireless solution, Linus has made a video on it so that is one of the reasons I chose it, 

 

Also regarding the rack I found this, 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00URMCQGW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A2R91RULSUJVUK

It is 9U which is rather small I believe, What else would I need to get this up and running? I see some people have surge protectors inside the rack, there are fans in the rack but i am not sure about their power connectors, could someone please help me with this?

thanks,

-George

[dalekphalm]

You could go with Ubiquiti's Router:

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-EdgeRouter-Advanced-Gigabit-Ethernet/dp/B00YFJT29C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437259801&sr=8-1&keywords=edgerouter+x

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-x/

 

Ruckus is a good alternative as well.

[BillytheSkids]

Looks like a good start. Anyone else have input?

 

dalekphalm,

     Nothing stands out as a problem so long as the cabling is there seems like everyone has done or is doing their homework.     Having a PoE switch always helps for future expandability, but I would look into a PoE+ switch as it is a more current standard and allows for higher wattage per line for future proofing.  I personally have also had bad experience with newer Linksys Business products especially switches (regardless of who owns them they are not Cisco switches).  I would also look for specific network cabling companies to run the wires.  I'm not sure how it works were you live but electricians in the states are traditionally union, do not know how to properly run 12v data cables, and cost way more.  Just my 2 cents, but sounds like a fun project.

 

Hope this helps.

[Znow]

dalekphalm,

     Nothing stands out as a problem so long as the cabling is there seems like everyone has done or is doing their homework.     Having a PoE switch always helps for future expandability, but I would look into a PoE+ switch as it is a more current standard and allows for higher wattage per line for future proofing.  I personally have also had bad experience with newer Linksys Business products especially switches (regardless of who owns them they are not Cisco switches).  I would also look for specific network cabling companies to run the wires.  I'm not sure how it works were you live but electricians in the states are traditionally union, do not know how to properly run 12v data cables, and cost way more.  Just my 2 cents, but sounds like a fun project.

 

Hope this helps.

Hi, I am not too sure if that will be needed, Is there a problem with simply running a really long cat 5 cable from the switch to each of the AP's? because that was what I was planning on doing and as long as the cable gets from A to B without being seen it should work right? I'm not experienced in this area so please correct me if i am wrong,

Thanks, 

-George

[BillytheSkids]

Hi, I am not too sure if that will be needed, Is there a problem with simply running a really long cat 5 cable from the switch to each of the AP's? because that was what I was planning on doing and as long as the cable gets from A to B without being seen it should work right? I'm not experienced in this area so please correct me if i am wrong,

Thanks, 

-George

 

Znow,

     That will be fine so long as you have minimum Category 5e cabling for 1 Gbps.

[Znow]

Ok so I feel this thread is drawing to an end, Here is my final product list, could someone please check through encase there is something missing or if something is just wrong?

 

-9u 19 Inch Cabinet

-3 AP's and one outdoor AP

-16 Port Gigabit Unmanaged Network Switch with 80w 8 Port PoE

-PDU rack mountable surge protector thing 1U

-M6 Cage nuts and bolts etc

 

what do I need in terms of cables? I have been looking at 10m cat5e cables with female to female extender things as I have no clue how long they will need to be channeled, will multiple of these on a single line be problematic or can you use as many as you want? One more question regarding the ISP provided router modem thing, I want to put this into the cabinet so could I just use a longer ADSL cable to put the filter in the cabinet too because I don't want an ugly white box dangling from one of the walls   so yeah with those questions answered I believe that is it, I do guarantee I will run into trouble when I try to set it all up so Im sure this thread wil be revived at a later date, maybe even with pictures etc to make this a cool project log kind of thing,

Thanks,

-George

[dalekphalm]

Ok so I feel this thread is drawing to an end, Here is my final product list, could someone please check through encase there is something missing or if something is just wrong?

 

-9u 19 Inch Cabinet

-3 AP's and one outdoor AP

-16 Port Gigabit Unmanaged Network Switch with 80w 8 Port PoE

-PDU rack mountable surge protector thing 1U

-M6 Cage nuts and bolts etc

 

what do I need in terms of cables? I have been looking at 10m cat5e cables with female to female extender things as I have no clue how long they will need to be channeled, will multiple of these on a single line be problematic or can you use as many as you want? One more question regarding the ISP provided router modem thing, I want to put this into the cabinet so could I just use a longer ADSL cable to put the filter in the cabinet too because I don't want an ugly white box dangling from one of the walls   so yeah with those questions answered I believe that is it, I do guarantee I will run into trouble when I try to set it all up so Im sure this thread wil be revived at a later date, maybe even with pictures etc to make this a cool project log kind of thing,

Thanks,

-George

Yes you can have the filter right be before the modem, with a long phone cord connecting to the wall. Keep in mind that long phone cords can impact the quality of your speeds. Keep em as short as you can within reason.

 

As for using multiple 10m cables, and using a coupler (that's the female to female thingy) to string them all together? That's a bad idea. Just don't do that. If you're going to run the cable yourself, then either:

1. Buy bulk cable (Available in large spools, like 150m or 300m or whatever), get the connectors (RJ-45 connectors, also known as 8P8C connectors), and a crimping tool (Available online from places like amazon for super cheap):

100m Cat5e:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nedis-Valueline-100m-Solid-Cable/dp/B00F60RDM2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437285306&sr=8-1&keywords=bulk+cat5e

100 pack of RJ-45 connectors:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/RJ45-Crimps-Cat5E-Connectors-Plugs/dp/B001D2IJLG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1437285344&sr=8-2&keywords=rj-45+connectors

RJ-45 crimping tool kit (includes cable tester, some spare RJ-45 connectors, and a cable sheath stripper - real good deal):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Network-Tester-Crimping-Crimper-Connector/dp/B00KKJCECI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1437285377&sr=8-4&keywords=rj-45+crimping+tool

 

or 2. Have an electrician or Networking cable technician run the cable for you. Have them tell you what lengths they need, or simply have them provide the cable themselves and bill you for it (Make sure to get a quote first, and make sure they itemize the cables, so you know they aren't ripping you off).

 

Everything else looks good

[.:MARK:.]

First of all, don't buy that router, get a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X.

 

Secondly, keep your modem next to your master phone socket and use a short cable between the filter and the modem.

 

Then you can keep the rack where you like and run an ethernet cable from your modem to your routers WAN port.

 

Third of all, I don't really advise getting an unmanaged switch. Go managed http://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-ProCurve-1410-24G-Ethernet-Switch/dp/B003TOZ1PS/

and just use PoE injectors.

 

Get a spool Cat6 or Cat6A cable and some 8P8C(RJ-45) connectors, and a crimper. Wire up your house.

[Znow]

So what are the advantages and disadvantages of managed and unmanaged switches?

Thanks, 

-George