Why prayer is absurd

[filipcro]

-while the main purpose of prayer may be to help others, it never demonstrably does that. All studies showed that prayers benefit only those believers who say or hear them, in a very trivial sense that it gives them temporary comfort.

-it creates an illusion(often dangerous) to think we have some control over a situation that may be out of our hands. It’s the last resort of people who have run out of ideas, and the first resort of people who never bothered to think about how they could actually fix the problem at hand.

-it lulls believers into a false sense of accomplishment. We cannot solve our problems – much less the world’s – through prayer. We often see people with good intentions praying for victims in the wake of a tragedy, but prayer is useless without action, and those actions make the prayers irrelevant.

-prayer is illogical, even in internally religious terms. If God has a plan, why try to thwart it? If God can be swayed by prayers, what kind of God would allow the horrors we see in the world? And if two devout believers pray for different things, how does God choose the winner?

-if prayer worked, we would live in a constant state of chaos, any scientific and statistic model we take for granted for governing our societies and infrastructure would be completely inconceivable

[HirgaLTTki]

Even if it helps emotionally, it works. I find that praying allows me to de-stress temporarily, its like fighting fire with fire. It is not absurd, definitely not scientifically proven but its our beliefs and religion 

[defunkt]

I find when i'm stressed I have a bath.. Or go to bed.

[beebskadoo]

I just talk to my invisible friend, its basically the same thing ;)

[lill-pumba]

All i have to say, my friend was in an  accident a few weeks ago, we dident pray... we said, get better! he is fine now!! 

[filipcro]

Even if it helps emotionally, it works. I find that praying allows me to de-stress temporarily, its like fighting fire with fire. It is not absurd, definitely not scientifically proven but its our beliefs and religion 

 

It is absurd because of the stated reasons and logical incoherence, do you wish to address those reasons?

 

Saying that it's your beliefs and religion is saying nothing because the existence of beliefs says nothing about their validity. And religion is just a collective institutionalized superstition passed onto you by collective habit we call tradition.

When something exists only due to childhood indoctrination and geographic distribution instead of reason and evidence you would do well to rethink your position.

 

Beliefs are not granted automatic respect just because they exist.

Instead, anyone or anything gets respect only through the process of evidence based reasoning and logical coherence. That is how we determine what is true and what is deserving of respect.

When you believe things without evidence there is no way to check the validity of what you believe, and if believing without evidence is respected then there is no way to condemn those who do morally repugnant things in the name of their faith. Faith provides no mechanism for moral decision-making, for self-examination, for discerning what is true. That is why it is dangerous.

[HirgaLTTki]

It is absurd because of the stated reasons and logical incoherence, do you wish to address those reasons?

 

Saying that it's your beliefs and religion is saying nothing because the existence of beliefs says nothing about their validity. And religion is just a collective institutionalized superstition passed onto you by collective habit we call tradition.

When something exists only due to childhood indoctrination and geographic distribution instead of reason and evidence you would do well to rethink your position.

 

Beliefs are not granted automatic respect just because they exist.

Instead, anyone or anything gets respect only through the process of evidence based reasoning and logical coherence. That is how we determine what is true and what is deserving of respect.

When you believe things without evidence there is no way to check the validity of what you believe, and if believing without evidence is respected then there is no way to condemn those who do morally repugnant things in the name of their faith. Faith provides no mechanism for moral decision-making, for self-examination, for discerning what is true. That is why it is dangerous.

 

Well its up to you whether you find that religion works or not, like I said, its not proven, so everybody has a choice if they want to believe it or not. I dont care if you are a free thinker, a christian, an atheist, but you just believe in what you choose to believe in. Saying that it is absurd may seem true to some but may not be to others. I dont think this opinion would change, and neither would mine. Prayer may not seem to help but I can tell you it does help emotionally

 

 

EDIT: This is a touchy subject, please do not let it get out of hand

[Theo]

I personally find it useless and dont really understand it, but i know other people do it and whatever, their choice!

[david cassar]

Instead of praying people can just take action. 

[FireFox]

I just talk to my invisible friend, its basically the same thing ;)

 

Swearing at yourself is a good release of stress as well, seems to work.

[FireFox]

Instead of praying people can just take action. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more also I wonder how long this thread will stay open lol

[HirgaLTTki]

Couldn't agree more also I wonder how long this thread will stay open lol

 

Linus and Slick has talked about this in their recent livestream, i think so long as no fights break out it will stay open forever

[FireFox]

Linus and Slick has talked about this in their recent livestream, i think so long as no fights break out it will stay open forever

 

Ahh that's good, just hope no wars get started

[Wulfgar]

I'm an atheist, but after being through multiple hardships in my life, I understand the value of prayer. Cold rational thinking is not always the best course of action, we're emotional creatures and have to learn to deal with the way we feel with illogical actions from time to time. It doesn't change who we are or what we really believe.

[Dave :)]

As Hirgaki said, so long as no offensive arguments break out, this thread is fine. I removed some offensive memes from the thread - could we keep please these to a minimum? Keep it respectful and you should be fine :)

Cheers.

[ObeseWalrus]

I don't pray, but whatever floats your boat...

[beebskadoo]

When someone says 'I'll pray for you' I respond with a thank you and say 'please write a letter to Santa too'

[Tr33]

when i feel sad i make use of my right hand if ya know what i mean

[FireFox]

when i feel sad i make use of my right hand if ya know what i mean

 

rofl err OK

 

Anyway look at the time *walks away*

[Canoas]

I'm an atheist, but you couldn't be more wrong when you claim prayer doesn't do anything. Prayer functions through the placebo effect, and it actively impacts people's lives. Several statistics showed that theists tended to live longer than atheists which prompted studies to figure out why, and prayer was the answer.

The placebo effect can have tremendous effects. A white pill that does nothing will diminish pain if a doctor tells you that's what it does. A blue pill will have a greater effect. A capsule is even better and if it has colour then it's even stronger. An injection, that does absolutely nothing, has a stronger effect than an actual aspirin. So, if the placebo effect of a fake injection is stronger than an aspirin, how strong would the placebo effect of praying to God be? It plays a huge role.

Maybe you remember those bracelets with holograms that were pretty popular a few years ago. It's positive effect was easily measured, but it actually doesn't do anything, it's all the placebo effect.

 

So, yes, prayer does not work. No one will grant your wishes. However, prayer does have a positive effect on people's lives and claiming it's useless is pure ignorance.

[Bleedman0xx]

"God helps those who help themselves."

Edit: I love how many, many Christians who pray in church together are actually supposed to not do that. Prayer is supposed to be done when you're alone with no one else in the room. The irony that many Christians break this rule is hilarious.

[JordanMac]

If praying really worked there would be thousands of lottery winners each weak. I don't see the point in it but if thats what you want to do go for it, doesn't bother me.

[david cassar]

Also i hate a lot of like whores on facebook which post a photo of a dying man with the description : Like= 1 prayer.. Ignore= go to hell. 

[FireFox]

Also i hate a lot of like whores on facebook which post a photo of a dying man with the description : Like= 1 prayer.. Ignore= go to hell. 

 

Agreed, those irritate me beyond words

[Art Vandelay]

inb4 locked thread.

 

Instead of praying people can just take action. 

Well, it's not exactly like I can go to Africa and save those people, personally.