Valve begins publicly listing AMD catalyst driver bugs in Linux

[cesrai]

I believe he means the mascot, which is a redheaded woman.

You mean Ruby ?

[patrickjp93]

You mean Ruby ?

Yup.

[patrickjp93]

on windows most people have a Good experience. Both nvidia and AMD do have bugs But in General it's a Good experience. Valve's strategy is to make sure that in the long term pc gaming is not reliant on windows. They are try to push devs and hardware vendors to make that happen. which is Why we see so many Linux game announcements these days.

It's not like it's super tough to develop a game to fit in the various window types for each OS. If you do the whole thing in OpenGL, OpenCL, and C++, you can use OpenFrameworks to automatically dispatch to a given OS's Pane/Window library.

[cesrai]

It's not like it's super tough to develop a game to fit in the various window types for each OS. If you do the whole thing in OpenGL, OpenCL, and C++, you can use OpenFrameworks to automatically dispatch to a given OS's Pane/Window library.

How does the current version of open GL compare to DX11 and Mantle ?

[Trik'Stari]

I believe he means the mascot, which is a redheaded woman.

*sudden desire to switch to red team kicks in*

[patrickjp93]

How does the current version of open GL compare to DX11 and Mantle ?

OpenGL and DX 11 are on par with each other. Nvidia's own drivers prove as much. Mantle and DX 11 are also on par with each other. AMD's own DX 11 drivers just haven't been fixed. Mantle only beats AMD's own DX 11 drivers. Nvidia also proved this a short while ago as well.

[cesrai]

OpenGL and DX 11 are on par with each other. Nvidia's own drivers prove as much. Mantle and DX 11 are also on par with each other. AMD's own DX 11 drivers just haven't been fixed. Mantle only beats AMD's own DX 11 drivers. Nvidia also proved this a short while ago as well.

No not really what Nvidia did is show how DX11 is great and stuff, they didn't provide other things that I can't remember.

[patrickjp93]

No not really what Nvidia did is show how DX11 is great and stuff, they didn't provide other things that I can't remember.

The main problem with OpenGL and DX comparisons is there are so few games with similar art styles and levels of quality which are also of the same genre. The reality is OpenGL is just as powerful as DX in the right hands, and Mantle is currently no more powerful than DX 11, at least in AMD's hands. Perhaps Intel will do something interesting with it. It'll be hilarious if Iris Pro 7200 comes with full Mantle support and ends up fighting on par with Carrizo despite being such an immature architecture (comparatively) and still being short 8 stream processors (assuming Intel doesn't add more SIMD units per EU in Skylake).

[cesrai]

The main problem with OpenGL and DX comparisons is there are so few games with similar art styles and levels of quality which are also of the same genre. The reality is OpenGL is just as powerful as DX in the right hands, and Mantle is currently no more powerful than DX 11, at least in AMD's hands. Perhaps Intel will do something interesting with it. It'll be hilarious if Iris Pro 7200 comes with full Mantle support and ends up fighting on par with Carrizo despite being such an immature architecture (comparatively) and still being short 8 stream processors (assuming Intel doesn't add more SIMD units per EU in Skylake).

Don't see Intel doing anything with it, there drivers are shit and will remain shit for a while, Iris may be amazing but if Intel doesn't have partners that are going to take the full potential of it it will be useless.

[patrickjp93]

Don't see Intel doing anything with it, there drivers are shit and will remain shit for a while, Iris may be amazing but if Intel doesn't have partners that are going to take the full potential of it it will be useless.

You do know Intel is the only one standing with driver code for its iGPU pushed to the Linux development code, right? It's pushed about 2 million lines of code for the Skylake iGPU alone. You're crazy. Also, Intel's drivers are extremely well tuned. Intel is fighting with half the stream processor count of AMD or less currently, but that will change with Skylake on almost a full catch up.

[cesrai]

You do know Intel is the only one standing with driver code for its iGPU pushed to the Linux development code, right? It's pushed about 2 million lines of code for the Skylake iGPU alone. You're crazy. Also, Intel's drivers are extremely well tuned. Intel is fighting with half the stream processor count of AMD or less currently, but that will change with Skylake on almost a full catch up.

Then if they are why isn't there applications that take it full potential ? if there is show.  

[patrickjp93]

Then if they are why isn't there applications that take it full potential ? if there is show.  

Anything that uses GPU acceleration can use Intel's iGPU. No one targets iGPU though, even for AMD. HSA being a completely new software stack is a different matter, and I suspect Intel will join the HSA foundation if AMD can get the serious names in the membership to develop for it, but the reality is the world of consumer software has been so slow to adopt heterogeneous computing that Intel has had no need to pursue the here and now. They're waiting to meet AMD at the summit when it takes off. That's what Cannonlake v. Zen will be all about.

 

Also, the old guard programmers hold back the whole industry. You have students like me who love working with CUDA and OpenCL who use heterogeneous acceleration easily, but you have old fogies like Stallman, Torvalds, and their generation which hold back the two which came after them since they're the senior devs.

 

If software moved at the speed of tech Haswell wouldn't look like such a minor improvement over SandyBridge.

[cesrai]

Anything that uses GPU acceleration can use Intel's iGPU. No one targets iGPU though, even for AMD. HSA being a completely new software stack is a different matter, and I suspect Intel will join the HSA foundation if AMD can get the serious names in the membership to develop for it, but the reality is the world of consumer software has been so slow to adopt heterogeneous computing that Intel has had no need to pursue the here and now. They're waiting to meet AMD at the summit when it takes off. That's what Cannonlake v. Zen will be all about.

 

Also, the old guard programmers hold back the whole industry. You have students like me who love working with CUDA and OpenCL who use heterogeneous acceleration easily, but you have old fogies like Stallman, Torvalds, and their generation which hold back the two which came after them since they're the senior devs.

 

If software moved at the speed of tech Haswell wouldn't look like such a minor improvement over SandyBridge.

AMD has partners that will use HSA to it's fullest according to John Taylor. 

[patrickjp93]

AMD has partners that will use HSA to it's fullest according to John Taylor. 

LibreOffice Calc is the only useful existing application THAT I KNOW OF, and on Kaveri it's still not as fast as Excel.

[cesrai]

LibreOffice Calc is the only useful existing application, and on Kaveri it's still not as fast as Excel.

Noted.

[swifty7]

instead of steambox, why won't M$ make dedicated consoles to only run pc games efficiently like xboxone but for pc games.   These consoles should be aimed at people that want to play PC games best way possible without the hassle of maintaining a full fledged OS. 

[Opcode]

instead of steambox, why won't M$ make dedicated consoles to only run pc games efficiently like xboxone but for pc games.   These consoles should be aimed at people that want to play PC games best way possible without the hassle of maintaining a full fledged OS. 

Because the hardware needed to max out every game on the market would drive console cost through the roof. Who want's to pay over a grand for a console. The end product wouldn't sell well at all especially after markup. You'd be better off just building your own machine for cheaper.

[Misanthrope]

Surprising considering Linux is a free to all thing, and AMD seems to be similar, I thought those two would be gay for each other (no offense meant to gays)

 

That's because they're really not: AMD likes to portrait themselves as being more open source and all but a lot of their stuff is quietly released as proprietary code with only a promise of it being open source later on (after they have a definitive upper hand) 

[Humbug]

Don't see Intel doing anything with it, there drivers are shit and will remain shit for a while

Not sure I agree with that?

Admittedly there have generally been behind AMD in terms of hardware, but their drivers are solid.

[Humbug]

instead of steambox, why won't M$ make dedicated consoles to only run pc games efficiently like xboxone but for pc games. 

Well they already have that market covered with the xbox one.

If they do it using windows PC as you propose they will have to deal with competition in terms of distribution. GOG, Steam, Origin, Uplay etc...

e.g- even on upcoming linux steam machines you can exit steam and buy a game via GOG.

I don't think Microsoft would be comfortable with such an open market if they are selling the hardware.

If they lock it down; well then you have a console again; the xbox one.

 

Also when it comes to people like us building high end PCs we generally don't favour pre-built machines. We like to express ourselves and customize the build ourselves.

[Sauron]

And this is why you want to use nvidia if you are using linux.

Most people need to download 3rd party GPU drivers for AMD on linux, which is really hard to find if it is closed-source.

 

Originally I thought AMD drivers were open source, but apparently not?

 

Not really, nvidia rivers for linux are even worse. But nvidia wouldn't react well to valve publishing their bugs and is strong enough to sue valve, whereas amd is not.

[Opcode]

Not really, nvidia rivers for linux are even worse. But nvidia wouldn't react well to valve publishing their bugs and is strong enough to sue valve, whereas amd is not.

What would be the purpose for suing Valve for finding and reporting bugs. I am sure Nvidia would welcome it for improvement of their proprietary blobs. All this is doing is helping AMD build a better driver for SteamOS.

[Sauron]

What would be the purpose for suing Valve for finding and reporting bugs. I am sure Nvidia would welcome it for improvement of their proprietary blobs. All this is doing is helping AMD build a better driver for SteamOS.

 

There's this aura of perfection around nvidia drivers (you have probably seen all the threads where people will say nvidia driver support is incredibly superior to amd etc) and they probably wouldn't like to stop that myth. Valve could very well provide that information privately.

[cesrai]

Well they already have that market covered with the xbox one.

If they do it using windows PC as you propose they will have to deal with competition in terms of distribution. GOG, Steam, Origin, Uplay etc...

e.g- even on upcoming linux steam machines you can exit steam and buy a game via GOG.

I don't think Microsoft would be comfortable with such an open market if they are selling the hardware.

If they lock it down; well then you have a console again; the xbox one.

 

Also when it comes to people like us building high end PCs we generally don't favour pre-built machines. We like to express ourselves and customize the build ourselves.

 

 

instead of steambox, why won't M$ make dedicated consoles to only run pc games efficiently like xboxone but for pc games.   These consoles should be aimed at people that want to play PC games best way possible without the hassle of maintaining a full fledged OS. 

 

 

They can partner with Valve or Nvidia or .... to stream games to the Xbone, imagine the convince streaming your games to the Xbone.

[Humbug]

Not really, nvidia rivers for linux are even worse. But nvidia wouldn't react well to valve publishing their bugs and is strong enough to sue valve, whereas amd is not.

Yes Nvidia maybe kinda buggy on Linux. But in terms of performance they are good.

Whereas AMD GPUs seem to be crippled on Linux; the same hardware which performs well on Windows.

 

Valve's objective is to have a level playing field on Linux where hardware vendors like Intel, AMD and Nvidia and other OEMs fight it out and game devs as well- both on the desktop and in the living room with no barriers between the two. They feel that such an industry would be beneficial for the longterm security of their steam store and PC gaming in general. So my guess is that they are frustrated that based on the current eco-system they cannot release any AMD based linux gaming machines; and they want that fixed by the time steam machines launch and steamOS leaves beta.