Rome

[ThatFatMan1911]

 

 

If any of you know your history then you know the Romans were basically the most powerful and glorious empire in the Ancient times. It just so happens to be my favorite part of history and I want to know what you historians think Rome would look like today if it had never fell. Would they have updated their most historical buildings such as the Colosseum or would they have kept it the same? Would they still be using the same old form of government? Would they still be speaking Latin? Tell me what you think Rome would look like in this modern day if it had never fell.

[tek inpektor]

Probably look the same just with modern interior designs.

[tek inpektor]

Roma? Roma est bene! Roma non est mala! Tu non dicis de Roma!

Yes.

[Trik'Stari]

Et tu brute? (thats all I remember from latin class sadly)

 

And we're still using the same form of government as them, we just learned to rotate the whipping boy out every 4 or 8 years

[Tacitus]

I love Roman history - my forum name is of arguably Rome's greatest historian. To see how Western Rome.might have progressed we could look at the east which survived until 1453. Ultimately, I think the groundwork for Medieval Europe was laid in the 3rd century when Rome underwent a period of turmoil. Trade links broke down and people started looking to regional/local elites for protection instead of to the wider Empire. The fourth century saw the Christianisation of Rome and in many ways the development of Christianity was defined by Constantine's state interference at the Council of Nicaea (the first ecumenical council). Much of Europe owes its legal systems to Justinian, a 6th century eastern emperor. The reality of post 476 Europe isn't that dramatic. The Visigothic kings of Spain and Gaul adopted the Roman system.of administration, run by Romans, and the kings of Italy Odoacer and Theodric were spectacular rulers. Only Britain and maybe Noricum suffered a catastrophe after the Fall of Rome, and indeed by the time the Normans conquered Sicily many centuries later the system.of Roman administration was still in place and functioning well.

onto how things would be had Rome never declined and fallen. I think more advanced than present. The empire created unity in large parts of Europe that would be absent in the middle ages, with the empire died many technological secrets. The formula for cement was forgotten for almost 1000 years, for example. The Middle Ages saw people eating less varied diets, and using lower quality eating utensils which indicates a decline in relative wealth. I'd put this down to decreased trade until the towns of Flanders and Italy won varying degrees of autonomy.

Great shame the Empire fell. How I'd love to be a Roman Citizen.

[ThatFatMan1911]

I love Roman history - my forum name is of arguably Rome's greatest historian. To see how Western Rome.might have progressed we could look at the east which survived until 1453. Ultimately, I think the groundwork for Medieval Europe was laid in the 3rd century when Rome underwent a period of turmoil. Trade links broke down and people started looking to regional/local elites for protection instead of to the wider Empire. The fourth century saw the Christianisation of Rome and in many ways the development of Christianity was defined by Constantine's state interference at the Council of Nicaea (the first ecumenical council). Much of Europe owes its legal systems to Justinian, a 6th century eastern emperor. The reality of post 476 Europe isn't that dramatic. The Visigothic kings of Spain and Gaul adopted the Roman system.of administration, run by Romans, and the kings of Italy Odoacer and Theodric were spectacular rulers. Only Britain and maybe Noricum suffered a catastrophe after the Fall of Rome, and indeed by the time the Normans conquered Sicily many centuries later the system.of Roman administration was still in place and functioning well.

onto how things would be had Rome never declined and fallen. I think more advanced than present. The empire created unity in large parts of Europe that would be absent in the middle ages, with the empire died many technological secrets. The formula for cement was forgotten for almost 1000 years, for example. The Middle Ages saw people eating less varied diets, and using lower quality eating utensils which indicates a decline in relative wealth. I'd put this down to decreased trade until the towns of Flanders and Italy won varying degrees of autonomy.

Great shame the Empire fell. How I'd love to be a Roman Citizen.

Finally someone with a brain and a decent response. Yes, if it were still alive today, I wouldn't mind living there for a few years or a decade. But you can still be a "fake" Roman citizen today. They are called Americans. From what I hear, we are the modern day Romans.

[Tacitus]

Finally someone with a brain and a decent response. Yes, if it were still alive today, I wouldn't mind living there for a few years or a decade. But you can still be a "fake" Roman citizen today. They are called Americans. From what I hear, we are the modern day Romans.

I think you for your comment regarding my brain/response but must disagree on the remark about Americans being close to a Roman ("fake" Roman). Roman culture I find hard to put into words but I find the Roman mob is better represented by English football hooligans while the elite was typically too conservative in their actions to be American.

What I should have put across better was that from the establishment of Republic in 510 BC and Empire in 27 BC Rome underwent dramatic change. The same can be said for 27 BC to AD 476, and again to 1453. Rome and the world around it changed progressively and the lands the Romans affected are the best ones to look for Rome's legacy in.

[ThatFatMan1911]

I think you for your comment regarding my brain/response but must disagree on the remark about Americans being close to a Roman ("fake" Roman). Roman culture I find hard to put into words but I find the Roman mob is better represented by English football hooligans while the elite was typically too conservative in their actions to be American.

What I should have put across better was that from the establishment of Republic in 510 BC and Empire in 27 BC Rome underwent dramatic change. The same can be said for 27 BC to AD 476, and again to 1453. Rome and the world around it changed progressively and the lands the Romans affected are the best ones to look for Rome's legacy in.

Ah come on now. The way I see it over here, we are (at this point) following in the same footsteps at the Romans did to their fall. You know what they say, "All great things must come to an end". Oh well. I'm not expecting us to last much longer anyway. Matter of fact, I give this country another 30-50 years...

[StingBull]

The world would be the same just with more purple around.

[Norman_the_Owl]

I love Roman history - my forum name is of arguably Rome's greatest historian. To see how Western Rome.might have progressed we could look at the east which survived until 1453. Ultimately, I think the groundwork for Medieval Europe was laid in the 3rd century when Rome underwent a period of turmoil. Trade links broke down and people started looking to regional/local elites for protection instead of to the wider Empire. The fourth century saw the Christianisation of Rome and in many ways the development of Christianity was defined by Constantine's state interference at the Council of Nicaea (the first ecumenical council). Much of Europe owes its legal systems to Justinian, a 6th century eastern emperor. The reality of post 476 Europe isn't that dramatic. The Visigothic kings of Spain and Gaul adopted the Roman system.of administration, run by Romans, and the kings of Italy Odoacer and Theodric were spectacular rulers. Only Britain and maybe Noricum suffered a catastrophe after the Fall of Rome, and indeed by the time the Normans conquered Sicily many centuries later the system.of Roman administration was still in place and functioning well.

onto how things would be had Rome never declined and fallen. I think more advanced than present. The empire created unity in large parts of Europe that would be absent in the middle ages, with the empire died many technological secrets. The formula for cement was forgotten for almost 1000 years, for example. The Middle Ages saw people eating less varied diets, and using lower quality eating utensils which indicates a decline in relative wealth. I'd put this down to decreased trade until the towns of Flanders and Italy won varying degrees of autonomy.

Great shame the Empire fell. How I'd love to be a Roman Citizen.

 

Tacitus is pretty much the only ancient historian who wasn't essentially a pre internet blogger

[Tacitus]

Ah come on now. The way I see it over here, we are (at this point) following in the same footsteps at the Romans did to their fall. You know what they say, "All great things must come to an end". Oh well. I'm not expecting us to last much longer anyway. Matter of fact, I give this country another 30-50 years...

  

And why would you believe this? Have your wealthiest states (provinces in the case of Rome) been denied to you by modern-day Vandals, your capital sacked by modern-day Goths and most of your navy destroyed in a disastrous military expedition. Are the modern day Huns destroying everything they come across to exact a hefty sum of money from you? Nah. America is comparatively stable!

Tacitus is pretty much the only ancient historian who wasn't essentially a pre internet blogger

And who sprang to mind when you said "pre-internet blogger" and why? If it is because of bias then that's true of just about all Roman historians and orators, even Tacitus. One small glance at his "Agricola" will show you that. Roman authors had to be mindful of their audiences and who was in charge at the time. Additionally Roman propaganda explains very well Rome's victories but not so well its defeats, especially when these defeats are recent. Typically to glorify one emperor or general an author would compare him to a historical giant like Caesar, or Octavian, while condemning him entailed comparisons with Caligula or Domitian.

There are many great Roman historians though - some of my favourites (except Tacitus) are Livy, Ammianus and even Julian (briefly emperor in 4th century, wrote of Constantine running around heaven frantically looking for his non-existent god). I'd also sometime like to read some of Augustine of Hippo's City of God - an explanation as to how the now-Christian Rome could be sacked (for the first time in 800 years) by Pagans.

The one to avoid that is like Roman light reading and is notorious is the Historia Augusta. Biographies of the emperors starting with Hadrian. Supposedly written by 6 people, but in reality written only by 1. It's fanciful and full of totally false information.

sorry for the convoluted response

[ThatFatMan1911]

  And why would you believe this? Have your wealthiest states (provinces in the case of Rome) been denied to you by modern-day Vandals, your capital sacked by modern-day Goths and most of your navy destroyed in a disastrous military expedition. Are the modern day Huns destroying everything they come across to exact a hefty sum of money from you? Nah. America is comparatively stable!

 

 

 

 

 

But in the future they will come. Russians are building up in South America. I bet they will team up with China and the countries of the Middle East. Maybe Mexico as well. Trust me. They will come. There will be a lot of casualties over here. But they should know...they will lose many more than we will. 

[Camul]

BRITISH EMPIRE FTW!!!!

 

jk, patriotism is fucking dumb.

[ThatFatMan1911]

BRITISH EMPIRE FTW!!!!

 

jk, patriotism is fucking dumb.

I hear that a bunch of British people are actually decedents of the Ancient Romans.

[Camul]

I hear that a bunch of British people are actually decedents of the Ancient Romans.

Well they did spend a bit of time here. The city I live near was build by the Romans as a fortress if I remember correctly.

[ThatFatMan1911]

Well they did spend a bit of time here. The city I live near was build by the Romans as a fortress if I remember correctly.

Ha yeah they kinda got their butts kicked too while up there. In fact, there is some myth about the 9th Legion being wiped out by the Picts. There is actually a whole movie based on it called "Centurion".

[Tacitus]

I hear that a bunch of British people are actually decedents of the Ancient Romans.

 

Roman occupation can be traced as far north as near Aberdeen in Scotland around 250 miles north of Hadrian's wall. There exists a line of forts. Romans occupied England and Wales and at times parts of Scotland (1st - 3rd century) until 410. So of course lots of Roman heritage here. The city of Bath is an excellent example, look up images of it.

 

Well they did spend a bit of time here. The city I live near was build by the Romans as a fortress if I remember correctly.

Londonium

Founded by Rome, not sure when exactly, and if it was a fort or a purpose-built town

[Camul]

 

Roman occupation can be traced as far north as near Aberdeen in Scotland around 250 miles north of Hadrian's wall. There exists a line of forts. Romans occupied England and Wales and at times parts of Scotland (1st - 3rd century) until 410. So of course lots of Roman heritage here. The city of Bath is an excellent example, look up images of it.

 

Londonium

Founded by Rome, not sure when exactly, and if it was a fort or a purpose-built town

Nope, it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_Victrix Not sure if that's any interest to you.

[ThatFatMan1911]

Nope, it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_Victrix Not sure if that's any interest to you.

Sigh. All the cool Roman stuff is over there in Europe. I hope to go on vacation for like 3 weeks visiting Rome in Italy and all other places their military went.

[Camul]

Sigh. All the cool Roman stuff is over there in Europe. I hope to go on vacation for like 3 weeks visiting Rome in Italy and all other places their military went.

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that special when you grow up around it.

[ThatFatMan1911]

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that special when you grow up around it.

What's even cooler is that the ancient pyramids are about as ancient to the Romans as the Romans are ancient to us.

[Tacitus]

Nope, it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_Victrix Not sure if that's any interest to you.

 

 

I don't quite see what Deva has to do with anything? It's just a fort-town originating from less than a decade before Agricola's conquest of North Britain.

[Camul]

I don't quite see what Deva has to do with anything? It's just a fort-town originating from less than a decade before Agricola's conquest of North Britain.

I don't know what any of that means.

[Tacitus]

I don't know what any of that means.

You posted me a wikipedia link and said "Nope, it's [insert link to Deva Victrix here]. What was the point of that?

[Camul]

You posted me a wikipedia link and said "Nope, it's [insert link to Deva Victrix here]. What was the point of that?

That was the place I was talking about.