Windows and its pricing

[gluconolactone]

I don't know if this has been discussed before...

But am I the only one who thinks that $100, for a piece of software that can be continuously reproduced at almost no cost, a bit too much?

 

Also, what is it with keeping Windows 7 at the same price as Windows 8? Why not drop it down, as all old versions of software do? Do they not trust that the new version of Windows has enough advantages to warrant a price difference?

[DarrenP]

I don't know if this has been discussed before...

But am I the only one who thinks that $100, for a piece of software that can be infinitely reproduced at almost no cost, a bit too much?

 

Also, what is it with keeping Windows 7 at the same price as Windows 8? Why not drop it down, as all old versions of software do? Do they not trust that the new version of Windows has enough advantages to warrant a price difference?

Not really, think of all the money that went into developing that software. Developers aren't cheap to employ. 

[Izaya Orihara]

You just need to know where to buy it. https://www.g2a.com/windows-8-professional-32-64-bit-cd-key-global.html

[gluconolactone]

Not really, think of all the money that went into developing that software. Developers aren't cheap to employ. 

 

Sure. But like I said, software can be reproduced continuously after being produced at first...

[gluconolactone]

You just need to know where to buy it. https://www.g2a.com/windows-8-professional-32-64-bit-cd-key-global.html

 

Sure, it's cheap, but they're MSDN keys. Therefore, as soon as the MSDN account goes down, your license becomes deactivated as well. Also, it's not exactly legal to sell MSDN keys for profit...

[Izaya Orihara]

Sure, it's cheap, but they're MSDN keys. Therefore, as soon as the MSDN account goes down, your license becomes deactivated as well. Also, it's not exactly legal to sell MSDN keys for profit...

What? They sell you a key and that is it. They are very well allowed to do so and never heard that your license could be deactivated. Show me a soruce that proves your point. 

[gluconolactone]

What? They sell you a key and that is it. They are very well allowed to do so and never heard that your license could be deactivated. Show me a soruce that proves your point. 

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/selling-product-key-from-msdntechnet-and-or/cf40c328-67ce-49b6-bbb6-c28cda92c06e

 

There is no exact source that tell you G2A keys are MSDN keys... However, there is no way legitimate Windows license can be bought for that low of a price. They're definitely MSDN keys, just think, how else can they get it?

[Izaya Orihara]

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/selling-product-key-from-msdntechnet-and-or/cf40c328-67ce-49b6-bbb6-c28cda92c06e

 

There is no exact source that tell you G2A keys are MSDN keys... However, there is no way legitimate Windows license can be bought for that low of a price. They're definitely MSDN keys, just think, how else can they get it?

Worked just fine for me and a lot of the folks on the forum. 

[gluconolactone]

Worked just fine for me and a lot of the folks on the forum. 

Yup. Pirated versions do work as well, they aren't legit either.

 

Anyways, my point with this thread is to discuss Microsoft's idiotic pricing of Windows... And whether or not people think it's justifiable...

[GoodBytes]

I don't know if this has been discussed before...

But am I the only one who thinks that $100, for a piece of software that can be continuously reproduced at almost no cost, a bit too much?

 

Also, what is it with keeping Windows 7 at the same price as Windows 8? Why not drop it down, as all old versions of software do? Do they not trust that the new version of Windows has enough advantages to warrant a price difference?

 

Windows pricing is cheap. I don't think you understand the huge complexity of an operating system. Without the operating system, your computer is just as useful as a door stop.

It literally operates your system. It tells your HDD what to do, where to move the head to where to get data. It controls where data goes (when you play music, you want it go comes out of your speakers, not printer), it avoids grid lock situations that you can create without knowing, it allows multiple programs to execute at the same time, and has a entire complex infrastructure (process scheduling) to give processing time with priority for each program, to make it so that everything looks like it is running simultaneously even on a single core processor. And that is just SCRATCHING the surface of an OS. They are larger than dictionary size books on just 1 component of an OS.

That is why everyone is basing their OS on Linux (ex: Ubuntu) or Unix (eg: MacOS). The interface that you interact with, is about 10% if not, less, of an Operating System.

That is why Microsoft hires THOUSANDS of engineers working around the clock on Windows. They are more engineers working on Windows than on Nvidia working on a GPU.

I recall the number for Windows being over 4000 people working on it, Nvidia uses ~2000 engineer when working on a new GPU architecture.

 

Yet, Adobe gets a free pass for selling their software that have only a few hundred or so employees, that does not require any real hard to find experts to work on a component, on a software that is significantly simpler, where the great amount of work is done for them. (Example: Pen support? Wacom does all the work via its drivers, or with Windows 8: Windows Ink API, another component to add to what was mentioned above. In addition, Windows Ink API must work with all pen technologies, not just Wacom's. So, a greater challenge right there). And how much they are were selling their office, before the subscription service? It was over 1000$.

 

R&D cost money. A LOT. Microsoft hires the best of the best they can find around the world. And these people, and experts, don't work for peanuts.

 

Yes Microsoft makes a huge amount of money, but that is business. Your 15$ cable that you see in stores, cost 0.18$ to make... and those aren't dollar shop. That is how the world works.

 

So really, I see nothing idiotic.

[gluconolactone]

Windows pricing is cheap. I don't think you understand the huge complexity of an operating system. Without the operating system, your computer is just as useful as a door stop.

It literally operates your system. It tells your HDD what to do, where to move the head to where to get data. It controls where data goes (when you play music, you want it go comes out of your speakers, not printer), it avoids grid lock situations that you can create without knowing, it allows multiple programs to execute at the same time, and has a entire complex infrastructure (process scheduling) to give processing time with priority for each program, to make it so that everything looks like it is running simultaneously even on a single core processor. And that is just SCRATCHING the surface of an OS. They are larger than dictionary size books on just 1 component of an OS.

That is why everyone is basing their OS on Linux (ex: Ubuntu) or Unix (eg: MacOS). The interface that you interact with, is about 10% if not, less, of an Operating System.

That is why Microsoft hires THOUSANDS of engineers working around the clock on Windows. They are more engineers working on Windows than on Nvidia working on a GPU.

I recall the number for Windows being over 4000 people working on it, Nvidia uses ~2000 engineer when working on a new GPU architecture.

 

Yet, Adobe gets a free pass for selling their software that have only a few hundred or so employees, that does not require any real hard to find experts to work on a component, on a software that is significantly simpler, where the great amount of work is done for them. (Example: Pen support? Wacom does all the work via its drivers, or with Windows 8: Windows Ink API, another component to add to what was mentioned above. In addition, Windows Ink API must work with all pen technologies, not just Wacom's. So, a greater challenge right there). And how much they are were selling their office, before the subscription service? It was over 1000$.

 

R&D cost money. A LOT. Microsoft hires the best of the best they can find around the world. And these people, and experts, don't work for peanuts.

 

Yes Microsoft makes a huge amount of money, but that is business. Your 15$ cable that you see in stores, cost 0.18$ to make... and those aren't dollar shop. That is how the world works.

 

So really, I see nothing idiotic.

 

I know the importance of an operating system, but that is not the point exactly. Any piece of hardware requires money to manufacture over and over again. There is a difference between start-up cost and running cost, for each version of the OS, of course the start-up cost will be high, having to pay for R&D and what not. But think for a second that it can be copied over and over again.

 

Also, what do you think of what I said about not reducing the price of an old version of the OS?

[GoodBytes]

I know the importance of an operating system, but that is not the point exactly. Any piece of hardware requires money to manufacture over and over again. There is a difference between start-up cost and running cost, for each version of the OS, of course the start-up cost will be high, having to pay for R&D and what not. But think for a second that it can be copied over and over again.

 

Also, what do you think of what I said about not reducing the price of an old version of the OS?

 

You pay the price of the server if you download it, disc package and retail profit margin if you get the box version.

Microsoft does offers for new versions of Windows. Windows 7 was 60% off at release, 50% for Pro. Windows 8 Pro was 40$ only, and Media Center add-on was free (despite Microsoft paying the license fees for all the codecs it came packaged). Media Center + paying codecs was put as an add-on, to drop the price of Windows 8 for the consumer, as their telemetry data showed that few people used Media Center, let alone play DVD's.

 

And Microsoft always improves each components. That is how Windows 7 was more responsive and faster than Vista, and Windows 8 is faster and more responsive than Windows 7.

Also, Microsoft spent about 10 billion $ to developer Vista, because they decided to scrap XP (which was based on NT 3, a 1993 OS core), and restart virtually from scratch, for a new OS security model, and support for current and next gen hardware, and introduce a smarter and modern device management, that was not possible back in the old days as it was too complex for the limited resources of Microsoft, and more importantly: computer resources.

When a driver crash, Windows Vista and up, can restart it. XP -> BSOD is what you were getting, or the device simply stop working and required, if you could, depending on the type of device, remove and plug back in while the system is on (USB device for example), depending on the driver and device.

 

As for the cost of Windows 7. Microsoft stop selling Windows 7 to consumers. Stores that sale it, are old orders they acquired. So they charge you the price needed so that they don't lose money.

Large Businesses and schools, uses Volume Licensing with Microsoft, and that is another story, as the pricing model is different than small businesses, system builders (us, which we incorrectly refer as "OEM version") and consumers.

[gluconolactone]

You pay the price of the server if you download it, disc package and retail profit margin if you get the box version.

Microsoft does offers for new versions of Windows. Windows 7 was 60% off at release, 50% for Pro. Windows 8 Pro was 40$ only, and Media Center add-on was free (despite Microsoft paying the license fees for all the codecs it came packaged). Media Center + paying codecs was put as an add-on, to drop the price of Windows 8 for the consumer, as their telemetry data showed that few people used Media Center, let alone play DVD's.

 

And Microsoft always improves each components. That is how Windows 7 was more responsive and faster than Vista, and Windows 8 is faster and more responsive than Windows 7.

Also, Microsoft spent about 10 billion $ to developer Vista, because they decided to scrap XP (which was based on NT 3, a 1993 OS core), and restart virtually from scratch, for a new OS security model, and support for current and next gen hardware, and introduce a smarter and modern device management, that was not possible back in the old days as it was too complex for the limited resources of Microsoft, and more importantly: computer resources.

When a driver crash, Windows Vista and up, can restart it. XP -> BSOD is what you were getting, or the device simply stop working and required, if you could, depending on the type of device, remove and plug back in while the system is on (USB device for example), depending on the driver and device.

 

As for the cost of Windows 7. Microsoft stop selling Windows 7 to consumers. Stores that sale it, are old orders they acquired. So they charge you the price needed so that they don't lose money.

Large Businesses and schools, uses Volume Licensing with Microsoft, and that is another story, as the pricing model is different than small businesses, system builders (us, which we incorrectly refer as "OEM version") and consumers.

 

But right now, Windows 7 is still available at Newegg, and I doubt it's just remaining stock, as it has been very long since the release of Windows 8. My point is, if they trust that they've made sufficient improvements and new features in a new version of Windows (8), they'd put Windows 7 at about $70, and keep it selling, why not? As it would mean that the new features are worth an extra $30...

But no, Windows 8.1 is the same price as Windows 7 Home Premium.

[mr moose]

But right now, Windows 7 is still available at Newegg, and I doubt it's just remaining stock, as it has been very long since the release of Windows 8. My point is, if they trust that they've made sufficient improvements and new features in a new version of Windows (8), they'd put Windows 7 at about $70, and keep it selling, why not? As it would mean that the new features are worth an extra $30...

But no, Windows 8.1 is the same price as Windows 7 Home Premium.

 

Firstly, windows 7 will never go down in price because MS want everyone to swap to 8, if they make 7 cheaper then people will not take up 8.

 

Secondly, after you buy windows you don't have to pay any more, Even though there is an awful lot of free after sales service that keeps your OS working and secure for years.  So if you consider the initial retail price includes 13 years of product updates and security support on top of the initial purchase price which also covers years of R+D I think you will find it is actually very cheap.

[RH00D]

I agree with GoodBytes and others that $100 for Windows is actually quite cheap once you break it down and realize how much money it actually costs to make this stuff. It's not that software cost a lot to make more copies, the primary cost is in paying all of your engineers, developers, programmers, designers, etc to do the work and in providing them with the funds to be able research and develop new things. I don't know for sure but I'd wager any developer at Microsoft working on core Windows development is making at least $100,000 a year minimum, and they have thousands of those people as GoodBytes stated.

 

Consumers will often think that software in the hundreds range is still extremely expensive, but if you've ever looked at business/enterprise pricing for software, $1000 is pretty much the minimum and lots of software/licensing costs in the $10,000+ range.

 

The college I attended pays over $1,000,000 in software licensing per year just for that one campus, and has less than 400 students and staff combined.

[gluconolactone]

Firstly, windows 7 will never go down in price because MS want everyone to swap to 8, if they make 7 cheaper then people will not take up 8.

 

Secondly, after you buy windows you don't have to pay any more, Even though there is an awful lot of free after sales service that keeps your OS working and secure for years.  So if you consider the initial retail price includes 13 years of product updates and security support on top of the initial purchase price which also covers years of R+D I think you will find it is actually very cheap.

 

Why will people not swap to 8? Because 7 works just as well?

[gluconolactone]

Also, I have a question... Is this legitimate?

http://www.trinitysupplies.com/Microsoft-Windows-7-Professional--1-PC--License_p_4381.html

[GoodBytes]

Looks like they buys and sales used copies:

http://www.trinitysupplies.com/Sell-to-Us_ep_58.html

[mr moose]

Why will people not swap to 8? Because 7 works just as well?

 

Different reasons, some people don't like change, others will decide based on advice from yahoo answers,  Other people again may just not know or care what OS they have and buy based on the $$ amount.

 

The people who actually know what they want and why will not be perturbed by the price (maybe a little pissed if it's more by they will still get what they need.)