Intel Microcode - Information?

[TheNaitsyrk]

Hello there,

 

I know this is unlikely but I was thinking...

 

If I were to hypothetically take old BIOS from e.g. 14th gen motherboard (one of 1st releases) and update it's microcode to latest for Intel, would it mean that it would help with degradation issues?

 

Obviously it's best to install latest and greatest but I had that thought and wanted to see what people think.

[YoungBlade]

13 minutes ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

Hello there,

 

I know this is unlikely but I was thinking...

 

If I were to hypothetically take old BIOS from e.g. 14th gen motherboard (one of 1st releases) and update it's microcode to latest for Intel, would it mean that it would help with degradation issues?

 

Obviously it's best to install latest and greatest but I had that thought and wanted to see what people think.

Assuming that the microcode alone was the problem, it should help. But given how long it took for Intel to fix this, and the fact that BIOS updates accompanied the microcode update, I have a feeling that the issue was bigger than just the microcode, and that the motherboards were also a factor.

[TheNaitsyrk]

3 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

Assuming that the microcode alone was the problem, it should help. But given how long it took for Intel to fix this, and the fact that BIOS updates accompanied the microcode update, I have a feeling that the issue was bigger than just the microcode, and that the motherboards were also a factor.

Hmm... I got a board Z790 Apex Encore, 3rd release is the last BIOS that works on it. Anything after boot loops. Otherwise fully working. I modified a BIOS to include latest microcode so I hope this will keep it okay. the other Z790 Apex Encore I have works good as heck, just nice to have it matching. Only paid £120 for it, it had messed up pins etc but straightened them and all is well, but only on the older BIOS. Thankfully that BIOS supports 24GB DIMMs well which is what I have

[Mumintroll]

Intel also said that we should use one of their cpu profiles, which Intel has probably tweaked the numbers abit for the motherboard makers to follow suit.

Those changes to the profiles, aren't they with the bios update and not the accompanying microcode update?

[TheNaitsyrk]

2 minutes ago, Mumintroll said:

Intel also said that we should use one of their cpu profiles, which Intel has probably tweaked the numbers abit for the motherboard makers to follow suit.

Those changes to the profiles, aren't they with the bios update and not the accompanying microcode update?

That would not be a problem as I do static voltage OC on my CPUs anyway, and it would not exceed 1.4V. (max 1.35V or so)

[YoungBlade]

10 minutes ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

That would not be a problem as I do static voltage OC on my CPUs anyway, and it would not exceed 1.4V. (max 1.35V or so)

If you're manual setting the voltage, then motherboard updates shouldn't affect your set-up. Automatic voltage settings would be the primary place where BIOS updates would help.

[TheNaitsyrk]

4 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

If you're manual setting the voltage, then motherboard updates shouldn't affect your set-up. Automatic voltage settings would be the primary place where BIOS updates would help.

Not the case. Had 13900KS, SP 116 125P 101E and that degraded with older BIOSes even when voltage was within reason

So I take caution now and ensure stuff is in place - Especially now when mobo won't take newer BIOS

[YoungBlade]

Just now, TheNaitsyrk said:

Not the case. Had 13900KS, SP 116 125P 101E and that degraded with older BIOSes even when voltage was within reason

So I take caution now and ensure stuff is in place - Especially now when mobo won't take newer BIOS

Even with the microcode update in place?

 

I don't know what other factors a motherboard update could address that's related to degradation. I suppose just too much power could be a problem, so that would explain why Intel pushed for lower default power limits.

[TheNaitsyrk]

5 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

Even with the microcode update in place?

 

I don't know what other factors a motherboard update could address that's related to degradation. I suppose just too much power could be a problem, so that would explain why Intel pushed for lower default power limits.

13900KS situation was before microcodes were even a thing, or even when people knew the CPUs are degrading.

 

I got 2x 14900KS and 1x 14900K and trying to prevent issues. One Z790 Apex Encore I have is fully updated so no worries there, it's just this Z790 Apex Encore with corrupted EEPROM that can only take 0507 BIOS that I need to have as updated as possible

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

If I were to hypothetically take old BIOS from e.g. 14th gen motherboard (one of 1st releases) and update it's microcode to latest for Intel, would it mean that it would help with degradation issues?

 

Obviously it's best to install latest and greatest but I had that thought and wanted to see what people think.

CPU microcode is delivered one of two ways. It's rolled-up into a BIOS update provided by the motherboard vendor, and through OS updates. Whichever one is newer will take precedence at boot. However not all microcode updates are included in OS updates, so it's best still obtain and install supported BIOS updates as they become available.

 

With regards to the BIOS upgrade process: It depends on how they're implimented for each MB make/model. Sometimes you can leap from the oldest to the newest. Other times you have to upgrade in steps (often to preserve the existing CMOS settings you've set). Either case the MB support site should tell you this.

 

Regarding CPU degradation, once it sets in it's irreversible. If you're affected in any meaningful way (system instability), you'll need to get the CPU replaced under warranty.

[TheNaitsyrk]

2 minutes ago, StDragon said:

CPU microcode is delivered one of two ways. It's rolled-up into a BIOS update provided by the motherboard vendor, and through OS updates. Whichever one is newer will take precedence at boot. However not all microcode updates are included in OS updates, so it's best still obtain and install supported BIOS updates as they become available.

 

With regards to the BIOS upgrade process: It depends on how they're implimented for each MB make/model. Sometimes you can leap from the oldest to the newest. Other times you have to upgrade in steps (often to preserve the existing CMOS settings you've set). Either case the MB support site should tell you this.

 

Regarding CPU degredation, once it sets in it's irreversible. If you're affected in any meaningful way (system instability), you'll need to get the CPU replaced under warranty.

Don't want to be rude, but you just essentially said water is wet / air is transparent.

 

It would be nice if you treated us like we know something and not clueless.

 

 

[TheNaitsyrk]

30 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

Even with the microcode update in place?

 

I don't know what other factors a motherboard update could address that's related to degradation. I suppose just too much power could be a problem, so that would explain why Intel pushed for lower default power limits.

For context, the 0507 I have runs newest micro code but wanted to know if there is anything else that can be done (long shot I know)

 

Pic there is running 0507 3rd oldest BIOS

[TheNaitsyrk]

24 minutes ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

13900KS situation was before microcodes were even a thing, or even when people knew the CPUs are degrading.

 

I got 2x 14900KS and 1x 14900K and trying to prevent issues. One Z790 Apex Encore I have is fully updated so no worries there, it's just this Z790 Apex Encore with corrupted EEPROM that can only take 0507 BIOS that I need to have as updated as possible

For additional context, this is my fully functional Apex running 2001 BIOS (newest)

[StDragon]

4 minutes ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

Don't want to be rude, but you just essentially said water is wet / air is transparent.

 

It would be nice if you treated us like we know something and not clueless.

 

 

You asked the question - I responded with an answer.

 

In no way was that ment to be condescending. Also, (more importantly), the forums are publically viewed. If the answer doesn't help you, it certainly will be of value to others that aren't aware.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

[TheNaitsyrk]

7 minutes ago, StDragon said:

You asked the question - I responded with an answer.

 

In no way was that ment to be condescending. Also, (more importantly), the forums are publically viewed. If the answer doesn't help you, it certainly will be of value to others that aren't aware.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm unsure of who's question you were answering, but it certainly wasn't my question.

 

I'll answer to my own topic with equivalent of what you said:

 

Gravity bends light that's why telescopes can see farther.

 

Public forum, will definitely help someone.

 

 

[StDragon]

1 minute ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

I'm unsure of who's question you were answering, but it certainly wasn't my question.

1 hour ago, TheNaitsyrk said:

..would it mean that it would help with degradation issues?

Updating the BIOS / CPU Microcode will mitigate against further degradation per Intel. But again, once the damage occurs, it's irriversable.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Mobile-and-Desktop-Processors/Intel-Core-13th-and-14th-Gen-Vmin-Shift-Instabilty-Update-New/m-p/1686948

IMHO the fact they're still tweaking this problem out doesn't bode well since they've already completed the RCA on this awhile back.

[TheNaitsyrk]

4 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Updating the BIOS / CPU Microcode will mitigate against further degradation per Intel. But again, once the damage occurs, it's irriversable.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Mobile-and-Desktop-Processors/Intel-Core-13th-and-14th-Gen-Vmin-Shift-Instabilty-Update-New/m-p/1686948

IMHO the fact they're still tweaking this problem out doesn't bode well since they've already completed the RCA on this awhile back.

There we go. That is helpful.

 

As long as I know (I guess) I did all I could to prevent degradation by updating the micro code then happy days.

 

Will plop an acceptable static voltage as well and we'll see how things go