More impedance than supported?

[lubblig]

Hi, I have a Xonar Essence Stx sound card with a pair of HD 558's. The soundcard can output 300~600 ohms (+18db). The headphones has, in the specs impedance of 50 ohms though.

 

So will it, if I turn the impedance up over the headphones limit, be bad for the headphones in any way, will I benefit from it or will it just not do anything and, since I'm a bit new to all of this audio stuff, what will it do if I turn up the impedance, is it better quality or what (Think of this last question as if I had headphones supporting impedance all the way up to 300 ohms. So basically what does it really do..) ?

 

As you can see I'm quite new to this so if there is anything else you think I should know or you need to know to be able to answer the question just ask!

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

i think it would, in terms of the sound quality output and the lifetime of the headphones

[lubblig]

i think it would, in terms of the sound quality output and the lifetime of the headphones

Do you mean bad sound quality and shorter life time?

[BoredErica]

I think that particular option you are talking about in the Asus software is just gain. If that's so, all it does is make stuff louder, and ideally you want just enough gain to get all the volume you want. Too high gain isn't good for sound quality.

 

I used to own the STX and I believe the menu states that it's gain for high impedance headphones. Somebody correct me if it looks like I'm wrong.

 

The mystical mikeaj said:

 

Nah, power required doesn't really relate to headphone impedance, but you're right about impedance relating to gain.  Headphone amps are more or less like voltage sources, though with some non-negligible output impedance in series for some models, so by P = V^2 / R — power equals voltage squared divided by resistance  — if the headphones have higher impedance then they will require higher voltage to receive the same amount of power.  i.e. for higher R and equivalent P, you need higher V.  Headphone resistance is the real part of impedance, can pretty much just be considered the impedance for many models and at least for simple ballpark estimates.  Thus you may need higher gain and volume knob setting to achieve higher voltage, for higher-impedance headphones, to get equivalent power delivered and thus output sound pressure levels.  That's assuming equal dB SPL output per mW input (sensitivity), which of course in practice can be very different between different headphones.  The gain and volume knobs are pretty much just multiplicative factors on output voltage.

 

 

 

Practically, as mentioned above, just use the lowest gain setting that gets you to your desired volume and adjust from there.  You can try the other settings if you want, but usually they shouldn't be much different in terms of performance; mostly higher gains will be noisier, if anything, with maybe a little higher distortion.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

Do you mean bad sound quality and shorter life time?

yes .

[ShearMe]

You cannot "turn up the impedance" nor does any soundcard "output ohms"

 

The setting you are speaking of is the gain setting (ASUS is dumb and labeled it in ohms). The only thing you should worry about is volume -> more gain (higher ohm label in the settings) = more volume. Keep the setting as low as you can, but you probably wont damage anything other than your hearing if you turn it all the way up.

[Dylan lol]

it only makes it louder, doesnt change the quality

[BoredErica]

yes .

As far as I can tell a simple gain increases the signal, increases loudness. But the person wearing the headphone will lower the volume knob to compensate for the louder sound from higher gain, so that the ending sound is just as loud either way. I don't think it would lower the life of the headphone - can you explain further?

 

 

You cannot "turn up the impedance" nor does any soundcard "output ohms"

 

The setting you are speaking of is the gain setting (ASUS is dumb and labeled it in ohms). The only thing you should worry about is volume -> more gain (higher ohm label in the settings) = more volume. Keep the setting as low as you can, but you probably wont damage anything other than your hearing if you turn it all the way up.

Hallelujah, we can disregard LawrenceBarnes2013's post then?

[ShearMe]

 

As far as I can tell a simple gain increases the signal, increases loudness. But the person wearing the headphone will lower the volume knob to compensate for the louder sound from higher gain, so that the ending sound is just as loud either way. I don't think it would lower the life of the headphone - can you explain further?

 

 

Hallelujah, we can disregard LawrenceBarnes2013's post then?

 

 

More gain doesn't degrade a headphone over time, he must be thinking of CPUs. Different gain settings do have different distortion patterns/amounts, but it's not linear (less gain does not always decrease %THD).

[lubblig]

I think that particular option you are talking about in the Asus software is just gain. If that's so, all it does is make stuff louder, and ideally you want just enough gain to get all the volume you want. Too high gain isn't good for sound quality.

 

I used to own the STX and I believe the menu states that it's gain for high impedance headphones. Somebody correct me if it looks like I'm wrong.

 

The mystical mikeaj said:

Yes this was exactly what I was talking about!

 

Thanks for clearing it all up. I'll just leave it as it is then so I don't mess any quality up.

[BoredErica]

Yes this was exactly what I was talking about!

 

Thanks for clearing it all up. I'll just leave it as it is then so I don't mess any quality up.

That same thing confused me the first time I used headphones with the STX.

 

More gain doesn't degrade a headphone over time, he must be thinking of CPUs. Different gain settings do have different distortion patterns/amounts, but it's not linear (less gain does not always decrease %THD).

 

I read that having the volume knob too low for an amp could cause channel imbalance issues. One graph I looked at showed the Objective has an issue with this, but it might not be audible. Is this related to gain?

[lubblig]

You cannot "turn up the impedance" nor does any soundcard "output ohms"

 

The setting you are speaking of is the gain setting (ASUS is dumb and labeled it in ohms). The only thing you should worry about is volume -> more gain (higher ohm label in the settings) = more volume. Keep the setting as low as you can, but you probably wont damage anything other than your hearing if you turn it all the way up.

Great! Thanks for the response!

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

 

As far as I can tell a simple gain increases the signal, increases loudness. But the person wearing the headphone will lower the volume knob to compensate for the louder sound from higher gain, so that the ending sound is just as loud either way. I don't think it would lower the life of the headphone - can you explain further?

what you said does work, but increasing the signal and the loudness above the supported amount of the headphones means more electrons (voltage, power) is traveling through the wires and the speakers shortening the life time, and that tweaking you talked about does work, but the sound quality wont be as good, i've tried it with both speakers and headphones and it really results on a poor non satisfying experience

[BoredErica]

 

what you said does work, but increasing the signal and the loudness above the supported amount of the headphones means more electrons (voltage, power) is traveling through the wires and the speakers shortening the life time, and that tweaking you talked about does work, but the sound quality wont be as good, i've tried it with both speakers and headphones and it really results on a poor non satisfying experience

I think you're mistaken. it's just gain. It's just loudness. First your ears will break before the headphones break. Nobody's ear will tolerate those volumes, so they will naturally bring down the volume. I've never heard of a headphone suffering due to high gain. 

 

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

 

 

I think you're mistaken. it's just gain. It's just loudness. First your ears will break before the headphones break. Nobody's ear will tolerate those volumes, so they will naturally bring down the volume. I've never heard of a headphone suffering due to high gain. 

 

 

-increasing the gain and the signal requires more input to deliver that higher output

-because as you said in you method, lower the loudness, that's what keeps them from suffering, if you keep the loudness as high, the quality would become even worst

[ShearMe]

I read that having the volume knob too low for an amp could cause channel imbalance issues. One graph I looked at showed the Objective has an issue with this, but it might not be audible. Is this related to gain?

 

No, channel imbalance at low volumes is just part of the nature of analog stereo potentiometers (the volume knob). Cheap ones have worse imbalance, expensive ones have very little.

 

what you said does work, but increasing the signal and the loudness above the supported amount of the headphones means more electrons (voltage, power) is traveling through the wires and the speakers shortening the life time, and that tweaking you talked about does work, but the sound quality wont be as good, i've tried it with both speakers and headphones and it really results on a poor non satisfying experience

 

Electricity does not degrade copper in any meaningful way.

[BoredErica]

-increasing the gain and the signal requires more input to deliver that higher output

-because as you said in you method, lower the loudness, that's what keeps them from suffering, if you keep the loudness as high, the quality would become even worst

That's kind of a pointless point then, don't you think? If I listen at 100 db and then one day I hit higher gain switch and now I'm at 110 db, I'm not going to just sit there and listen 10 db louder forever and ever, I'll lower the volume because it's too loud and my ears are bleeding, lol. I think you're scaring the OP over nothing.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

 

Electricity does not degrade copper in any meaningful way.

 

it does .

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

That's kind of a pointless point then, don't you think? If I listen at 100 db and then one day I hit higher gain switch and now I'm at 110 db, I'm not going to just sit there and listen 10 db louder forever and ever, I'll lower the volume because it's too loud and my ears are bleeding, lol. I think you're scaring the OP over nothing.

suit your self, plus, you're the one suggesting to amp them things

[BoredErica]

 

it does .

suit your self, plus, you're the one suggesting to amp them things

wut

...............................

 

 

 

No, just no.

[ShearMe]

it does .

 

Oh really? How?

[BoredErica]

Oh really? How?

How now, brown cow? 

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

Oh really? How?

more output needs more input to be delivered, just like over voltage .not the same, but the same idea, juts like OV decreases the life time of a chip, amplifying the output of headphones does the same

[ShearMe]

juts like OV decreases the life time of a chip, amplifying the output of headphones does the same

 

The life of a chip is decreased with more voltage because it is made up of atomic transistors - the life of a headphone is not as delicate. There is a breaking point to any voice coil, but it is not on a count-down like a lightbulb as you seem to believe.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

The life of a chip is decreased with more voltage because it is made up of atomic transistors - the life of a headphone is not as delicate. There is a breaking point to any voice coil, but it is not on a count-down like a lightbulb as you seem to believe.

no no no, you missed my point, it's the wires/Speakers on the headphones that will fade due to higher output than supported