PS5 and upscaling

EdoTensei · October 19, 2024

While there a lot of going about new PSSR around, I started to think that this is a bit overrated.

I got PS5 Slim lately, and I’m pleased so far, especially for the exclusive titles, as they seems to use some Sony’s upscaling, rather than FSR, and it’s actually hold up very well imho. Especially as for regular PS5. But some third party AAA games, will use FSR eventually, and here’s where things are going tricky. FSR comparing to PSSR (due to 300x zoom in DF videos), looks a bit worse, but not necessarily when comparing to some Sony's checkerboard, especially when we are not playing games at 300x zoom lol

But I’ve been thinking, that if PSSR have been made with AMD and Sony, then maybe they are have made some improvements in regular FSR as XeSS and its DP4a, because clearly FSR isn’t the best option at all.

I still think that PS5 Pro is overpriced, and it should cost around 599 at max, especially when PS5 still holding up pretty well, or even really good as for its price, but the whole experience can be slightly downsides by FSR quality.

So if FSR could get a bit of polish from PSSR then It could be a great time for PS5 owners to sit tightly and wait till Pro will get much lower prices and at least few New worthy spending over 70£$ games, but I think we can do that anyway because the most important thing in gaming is story and gameplay, the quality/resolution is at second place

Alex Atkin UK · October 20, 2024

4 hours ago, EdoTensei said:

FSR comparing to PSSR (due to 300x zoom in DF videos), looks a bit worse, but not necessarily when comparing to some Sony's checkerboard, especially when we are not playing games at 300x zoom lol

You're completely missing the whole reason DF use zoom - so you can see the difference AFTER YouTube compression.

As a PC gamer I have toggled between DLSS, FSR and XeSS, seeing the difference very clearly. PSSR is closer to DLSS.
You just can't really see how much difference it makes in still images (the only place its practical to use lossless compression) or compressed video files. I've lost count of how many times I've seen game footage that looks so much more photo realistic in trailers compared to running it natively to my TV, because the compression hid all the artefacts.

PS5 Pro is expensive for a console, but if you actually compare it to how much extra it costs to upgrade to a PC GPU with nearly 50% more performance, its actually not overpriced at all. The same way people moaned at how expensive PSVR2 was, but for the actual technology it contained, it was actually really cheap compared to anything remotely comparable in the PC market.

4 hours ago, EdoTensei said:

I think we can do that anyway because the most important thing in gaming is story and gameplay, the quality/resolution is at second place

I strongly disagree with this argument. As while yes, bad gameplay and terrific graphics make a terrible game. Good gameplay and terrible graphics can also make a terrible game.

Example, I got a headache playing Tears of the Kingdom on my TV because the native resolution is so low with tons of FSR artefacts. I ended up playing the game on Yuzu and it was so much more enjoyable at 60fps (building things was insanely frustrating on the native hardware as it dropped below 30fps) and crystal clear 4K.

A great game can be ruined by the graphics being too compromised. There are at least a few games where I got frustrated with how unresponsive they felt on console, where playing them on PC was a night/day difference due to the frame rate alone.

Only yesterday I was playing Horizon Forbidden West on PC at 4K and was able to headshot someone in the distance who was barely visible due to how far away they were. That same thing would have been impossible on the PS5 version (granted, even the Pro) as they would not have been visible at a lower resolution. So dismissing graphics as not being an important element to make a game more fun to play is folly.

EdoTensei · October 20, 2024

5 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

You're completely missing the whole reason DF use zoom - so you can see the difference AFTER YouTube compression.

As a PC gamer I have toggled between DLSS, FSR and XeSS, seeing the difference very clearly. PSSR is closer to DLSS.
You just can't really see how much difference it makes in still images (the only place its practical to use lossless compression) or compressed video files. I've lost count of how many times I've seen game footage that looks so much more photo realistic in trailers compared to running it natively to my TV, because the compression hid all the artefacts.

PS5 Pro is expensive for a console, but if you actually compare it to how much extra it costs to upgrade to a PC GPU with nearly 50% more performance, its actually not overpriced at all. The same way people moaned at how expensive PSVR2 was, but for the actual technology it contained, it was actually really cheap compared to anything remotely comparable in the PC market.

I strongly disagree with this argument. As while yes, bad gameplay and terrific graphics make a terrible game. Good gameplay and terrible graphics can also make a terrible game.

Example, I got a headache playing Tears of the Kingdom on my TV because the native resolution is so low with tons of FSR artefacts. I ended up playing the game on Yuzu and it was so much more enjoyable at 60fps (building things was insanely frustrating on the native hardware as it dropped below 30fps) and crystal clear 4K.

A great game can be ruined by the graphics being too compromised. There are at least a few games where I got frustrated with how unresponsive they felt on console, where playing them on PC was a night/day difference due to the frame rate alone.

Only yesterday I was playing Horizon Forbidden West on PC at 4K and was able to headshot someone in the distance who was barely visible due to how far away they were. That same thing would have been impossible on the PS5 version (granted, even the Pro) as they would not have been visible at a lower resolution. So dismissing graphics as not being an important element to make a game more fun to play is folly.

I don’t wanna argue about 700£ console with someone who has the most expensive PC, cuz if you can afford PC with 4090 etc, then why wouldn’t you spent just 700£ for console.

For me, and other casual gamers who can’t even afford mid range PC or just don’t want, 300-400 for PS5 is a sweet spot, as it can offer 60fps in most games, and great visiuals for what it cost.

700£ + 40-70£ games + optional over 100£ disc drive, and PS+ Subscription monthly.

So PS5 Pro is another hardware tech for elite people with bunch of cash or rich parents. Sony no longer aims on casual gamers.

Alex Atkin UK · October 20, 2024

4 hours ago, EdoTensei said:

I don’t wanna argue about 700£ console with someone who has the most expensive PC, cuz if you can afford PC with 4090 etc, then why wouldn’t you spent just 700£ for console.

Then why start the thread in the first place?

My response was an objective view based on how much tech overall costs these days. If I were to be entirely subjective based on peoples income I'd say even the base PS5 is expensive. Its even more alarming how much a flagship smartphone costs these days, given there you ARE forced to upgrade for security updates. (lots of people don't and don't realise they are taking a gamble on getting their phone hacked)

4 hours ago, EdoTensei said:

So PS5 Pro is another hardware tech for elite people with bunch of cash or rich parents. Sony no longer aims on casual gamers.

Indeed it is, if they didn't think there was a market, they wouldn't make it. You also have to consider that PS5 Pro is partly to get developers using new features like PSSR, so that it "just works" on PS6.

Its no longer economically viable for console manufacturers to make a loss on console sales, as games are costing so much to develop. It sucks, but it is what it is, and why Microsoft said from day one they wouldn't make a more powerful Xbox Series as it would have to cost more than the Series X. Sony just decided it was worth doing.

For the record I'm not on a high income, I just spend 99% of it on tech because I'm stuck in the house 99% of the time due to disabilities and tech is my only hobby. I'd choose friends/family over tech any day, if I had a choice.

EdoTensei · October 20, 2024

4 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Then why start the thread in the first place?

My response was an objective view based on how much tech overall costs these days. If I were to be entirely subjective based on peoples income I'd say even the base PS5 is expensive. Its even more alarming how much a flagship smartphone costs these days, given there you ARE forced to upgrade for security updates. (lots of people don't and don't realise they are taking a gamble on getting their phone hacked)

Indeed it is, if they didn't think there was a market, they wouldn't make it. You also have to consider that PS5 Pro is partly to get developers using new features like PSSR, so that it "just works" on PS6.

Its no longer economically viable for console manufacturers to make a loss on console sales, as games are costing so much to develop. It sucks, but it is what it is, and why Microsoft said from day one they wouldn't make a more powerful Xbox Series as it would have to cost more than the Series X. Sony just decided it was worth doing.

For the record I'm not on a high income, I just spend 99% of it on tech because I'm stuck in the house 99% of the time due to disabilities and tech is my only hobby. I'd choose friends/family over tech any day, if I had a choice.

First of all, I’m sorry for your situation, gaming is my hobby but not at PC cost, especially that I had a PC with 7900XT due to some unexpected gifts I was able to afford one, but my whole experience with PC for few years is playing Developer Simulator rather than games itself .

Let’s be honest, vast majority of games or ports of them are badly optimised, so I had to most of the time, searching for potentially solution rather then just enjoying the game,

My last game which spilled the cup of bitterness before I sold my PC and bought PS5 was Silent Hill 2 Remake, and its traversal stuttering every few seconds. And I spent whole Saturday to find a solution.. meanwhile on PS5 isn’t perfect but way more enjoyable. I didn’t bough it yet on PS5 tho, because I bought it already on PC and I have to keep as much as I can for my new car and some deposit + some first instalments, but if not that I would be able to buy PS5 Pro but only because I got a bit more from selling PC than I was expecting. But even then I wouldn’t be entirely sure if I would like to spend 700 at once tbh.

With my today’s reaserch about overall PC hardware and price/performance, I found out that with this level of RT performance and DLSS like upscaling, the cheapest option would be 4070 super/Ti which already cost around 550-600 for Super and almost 800 for Ti. With other PC components like CPU RAM PSU etc would be at least around 1K even if CPU in Pro is still Zen 2 as far as I know with just few MHz more over the base console. So more less the same money as full bundle PS5 Pro with extra disc drive and PS+

But still much better optimisation than PC at this price point, but still nothing interesting on Game Catalogue to enjoy PS5 Pro new potential, other than already played by me titles as I had PS3 and PS4 in the past.