Cooling for more than Cooling

[Altazink]

Im suprised i havent seen much on this or a video

 

seeing as Linus warmed his pool with his server rack/ cooled his server rack with his pool. I would like to see other things done

 

My favorite idea so far would be PC build with a waffle maker/hot pocket warmer 

-maybe run the waterloop through it where the heater rod would normally be located.....nothing like a hot snack while gaming,

-coffee maker water loop..... brew a fresh cup of coffee for working on the go....on a laptop would be ideal, coffee and laptops can mix in a good way....maybe?

 

Im sure there are more ideas out there,

[TatamiMatt]

6 minutes ago, Altazink said:

Im suprised i havent seen much on this or a video

 

seeing as Linus warmed his pool with his server rack/ cooled his server rack with his pool. I would like to see other things done

 

My favorite idea so far would be PC build with a waffle maker/hot pocket warmer 

-maybe run the waterloop through it where the heater rod would normally be located.....nothing like a hot snack while gaming,

-coffee maker water loop..... brew a fresh cup of coffee for working on the go....on a laptop would be ideal, coffee and laptops can mix in a good way....maybe?

 

Im sure there are more ideas out there,

I dont think either of the latter suggestions would get hot enough to do their desired thing, like if water is 60C it can still cool, not well, but it still can some, but its not boiling water like is used to make coffee. And thats warmer than youd want your loop water to be, nevermind another secondary source of water for coffee, which will act as a heatsink. If your heatsink is 60C, then your loop water should be warmer again, extrapolate that to say 90C, if your heatsink/coffee water is 90C, your loop will be warmer again, and so will your CPU, and now your quite heavily thermally throttling. 

 

Though there are some things that might be cool, a super thick, super wide, long, out of computer radiator like back in the day as both a passive cpu rad, and that doubles as a foot warmer?

[DoctorNick]

1 hour ago, TatamiMatt said:

I dont think either of the latter suggestions would get hot enough to do their desired thing, like if water is 60C it can still cool, not well, but it still can some, but its not boiling water like is used to make coffee. And thats warmer than youd want your loop water to be, nevermind another secondary source of water for coffee, which will act as a heatsink. If your heatsink is 60C, then your loop water should be warmer again, extrapolate that to say 90C, if your heatsink/coffee water is 90C, your loop will be warmer again, and so will your CPU, and now your quite heavily thermally throttling. 

 

Though there are some things that might be cool, a super thick, super wide, long, out of computer radiator like back in the day as both a passive cpu rad, and that doubles as a foot warmer?

It's not like cold water "cool" much better than hot water. Comparing lets say water at 20C vs water at 60C the specific heat capacity is almost identical.

 

At 20°C: 4.182 kJ/kg°C.

At 60°C: 4.178 kJ/kg°C.

[Aleph256]

1 minute ago, DoctorNick said:

It's not like cold water "cool" much better than hot water. Comparing lets say water at 20C vs water at 60C the specific heat capacity is almost identical.

Isn't the thermal transfer more efficient the cooler the water is?

Been a while since I brushed up on my thermodynamics but that's what I recall from it.

[DoctorNick]

9 minutes ago, Aleph256 said:

Isn't the thermal transfer more efficient the cooler the water is?

Been a while since I brushed up on my thermodynamics but that's what I recall from it.

It's actually the opposite and its related to the difference in temperature from the water to the surrounding air. The greater the difference in temperature the greater the heat transfer is. My first post was very vague and I mixed heat transfer with heat capacity which is totally different. 

[Aleph256]

2 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

its related to the difference in temperature from the water to the surrounding air

That's on me - I was talking about the transfer from the CPU to the water.

I did also mean to imply a higher DeltaT made it more efficient.

[DoctorNick]

13 minutes ago, Aleph256 said:

That's on me - I was talking about the transfer from the CPU to the water.

I did also mean to imply a higher DeltaT made it more efficient.

Yes but its also very weird actually. Its the same logic that if you have a cup of coffee for example and you leave it black and very hot to cool off, vs taking the same amount of coffee and mixing it with milk and let it cool off. The Coffee that'll first reach room temperature first, will be the black coffee.

[TatamiMatt]

31 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

It's not like cold water "cool" much better than hot water. Comparing lets say water at 20C vs water at 60C the specific heat capacity is almost identical.

 

At 20°C: 4.182 kJ/kg°C.

At 60°C: 4.178 kJ/kg°C.

I mean, yeah the efficiency doesnt increase or decrease too much, but what i was moreso trying to get at was, if youre trying to cool your cpu below 60C, the water also needs to be below 60C, same with boiling water with your cpu for some coffee, 90C water cant cool any colder than 90C in an ideal situation

[DoctorNick]

7 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

I mean, yeah the efficiency doesnt increase or decrease too much, but what i was moreso trying to get at was, if youre trying to cool your cpu below 60C, the water also needs to be below 60C, same with boiling water with your cpu for some coffee, 90C water cant cool any colder than 90C in an ideal situation

Of course and thats why my example was bad. 

[OddOod]

4 hours ago, Altazink said:

PC build with a waffle maker/hot pocket warmer

Okay, this is *not* outside the realm of possibility. It's an insane proposition, but not impossible.

How familiar are you with heat pumps? Basically they are an air conditioner with a reverse function. Their purpose is to concentrate heat.

You could, in theory, build a very high draw PC (think 14th gen i9 plus 4090) in order to pull around 1000W under load. Then you have to figure out how to pull that heat away as fast as possible with maybe an oil bath. Then you can cool that oil with the cold end of the heat pump. The hot end of the pump will be the *really* tricky part. First you're gonna need an absolutely WILD coolant in that pump to allow it to push the hot end up to 200C, though this research has been done given that there are already industrial solutions on the market that will crank the hot end up to 400. Second, you will need to completely redesign the geometry of the hot end in order to get it to dump all that heat into the cast iron plates of a waffle maker. This second part *may* be impossible, though it would take a fair bit of trial and error to reasonably prove. But maybe you could design a three metal thing where the pipes are copper, the fins are aluminum, and the block is iron. It would be an insane manufacturing process where you cast the iron, mill out TINY channels, cast the Al into those channels, then drill a looping path through the whole thing and fill *that* with copper which then itself gets drilled out before the whole thing gets braised onto the hot end of the heat pump. 
Then, all you need to do is pull a consistent very high load on the computer, and after a few hours (maybe tens of hours, don't look at me, I'm no thermodynamicist), you will have a hot waffle iron. 
Upside: you can run your waffle iron for about a third (more realistically one half) the power it would normally need.
Downside: you will ALWAYS have the iron running while adding an extra 300W of heat to your room. Also you've spent somewhere between 100k and 12mil on R&D, prototyping, and manufacture. 

TLDR: Can you? Probably. Should you? NO.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

[TPCEA]

3 hours ago, DoctorNick said:

Yes but its also very weird actually. Its the same logic that if you have a cup of coffee for example and you leave it black and very hot to cool off, vs taking the same amount of coffee and mixing it with milk and let it cool off. The Coffee that'll first reach room temperature first, will be the black coffee.

I think that is due to the increased viscosity, isn't it?

 

3 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

I mean, yeah the efficiency doesnt increase or decrease too much, but what i was moreso trying to get at was, if youre trying to cool your cpu below 60C, the water also needs to be below 60C, same with boiling water with your cpu for some coffee, 90C water cant cool any colder than 90C in an ideal situation

I don't understand. If the room is at or above 90C, sure, but if it's lower, then the water can go below 90C, right?

 

4 hours ago, Altazink said:

Im suprised i havent seen much on this or a video

 

seeing as Linus warmed his pool with his server rack/ cooled his server rack with his pool. I would like to see other things done

 

My favorite idea so far would be PC build with a waffle maker/hot pocket warmer 

-maybe run the waterloop through it where the heater rod would normally be located.....nothing like a hot snack while gaming,

-coffee maker water loop..... brew a fresh cup of coffee for working on the go....on a laptop would be ideal, coffee and laptops can mix in a good way....maybe?

 

Im sure there are more ideas out there,

I love the idea of making use of all that waste heat. A towel dryer, for example.

[TatamiMatt]

23 minutes ago, TPCEA said:

I don't understand. If the room is at or above 90C, sure, but if it's lower, then the water can go below 90C, right?

The water can go below definitely, but if the idea is to boil water for coffee, then the goal is to get it to 90C or above

 

(and oh dear god i hope your room is not 90C, thats 195F or so)

[TPCEA]

1 hour ago, TatamiMatt said:

The water can go below definitely, but if the idea is to boil water for coffee, then the goal is to get it to 90C or above

 

(and oh dear god i hope your room is not 90C, thats 195F or so)

Oh I misunderstood your intent!

 

Plenty of people have to endure that heat.... in Hell! LOL!

 

Speaking of which, did you know that Hell was a lot of flames is a relatively modern revision of what it's like?

[DoctorNick]

19 hours ago, TPCEA said:

I think that is due to the increased viscosity, isn't it?

No viscosity isn't part of it. It'll be the same if you just poured in some cold water instead of milk

[TPCEA]

Based on decades of cooking, I have to disagree.