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Cooling "networking stack" questions.

Tankers
By Tankers
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So I decided to embark on cleaning out my networking stack, and I want to put some fans on my machines, but I have no clue what fans would work better or how to connect them to power.

image.png.00d0c288c30ec0787ac646843f551d09.png

 

I was thinking about grabbing 3x Arctic P12 and 1x https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007084857591.html and just chaining them, but it just seem a bit of too janky of a method. And yes I'm on a budget, as those parts would net me ~$25 total, so I was thinking max of ~$30-35 if there is significant jump in quality or just a better solution. (and yes the dimensions on picture are just eyeballing).

The shelf itself will be made out of "wood" most likely, but I'm at planing phase. 

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Rather than putting the fans on top of each piece of gear, parallel to them, it would likely work better to place the fans perpendicularly to the hardware. As such:

image.png.56046f65e0e4473137442503c8e522aa.png

 

Would be fine to just run the fans in parallel - cut the 3/4 pin connectors off of them, and wire the ground and +12v from a 9v AC adapter (they would be quite loud at the full 12v.)

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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I'm a little hesitant to have some random AliExpress electronic items plugged in all the time at my house. Might be overly paranoid, but if it's going to run 24/7, I'd feel better if it came from a known source, had some sort of testing, etc.

 

For my rack to power fans I used an "old" power brick that came with a USB hub that was 12 volts (4 amps) already. Put a fan plug on the end and was good to go. 

 

networkrack2.jpg

 

I've never needed to change the fan speeds. So a fan controller is likely overkill. I will say full speed was a little noisier than we would have liked so I used some Notcua low noise adapters to quiet it down some. 

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As an idea to, before I used an actual rack, I bought this cabinet shelf thing off of Amazon and used it to start.

 

pfsense7.jpg

 

It was really cheap. I did modify the legs a bit to change the height to make it shorter. However that was just because I wanted to. 

 

Just a thought if you wanted something "ready made"

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56 minutes ago, da na said:

Rather than putting the fans on top of each piece of gear, parallel to them, it would likely work better to place the fans perpendicularly to the hardware. As such:

image.png.56046f65e0e4473137442503c8e522aa.png

 

Would be fine to just run the fans in parallel - cut the 3/4 pin connectors off of them, and wire the ground and +12v from a 9v AC adapter (they would be quite loud at the full 12v.)

Thanks for the advice on the 9v AC adapter and fan placement.

 

45 minutes ago, OddOod said:

I'd just put a box fan behind the stack and let it purr

This is the model I use
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0854FY793

We do not have those in EU sadly enough.

 

46 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

As an idea to, before I used an actual rack, I bought this cabinet shelf thing off of Amazon and used it to start.

 

pfsense7.jpg

 

It was really cheap. I did modify the legs a bit to change the height to make it shorter. However that was just because I wanted to. 

 

Just a thought if you wanted something "ready made"

Oh I totally forgot those exist, I used to saw them on promotions all the time. 

Edited by Tankers
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13 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Do those miniPCs have vents on the top? Many don't, and I don't see a external fan helping here.

 

I don't really see a point of these fans, all of these devices are designed to work with no additional airflow.

WR3000 (as my router) is vented on top and bottom. Dell 5070 is vented on top and side (at least I believe the sides are too), but not back/front and M93Q is vented on front/back (I know my image is bad but I was going to put the fan in front of it as it's dumping heat from CPU with the vent out back).
My current problem is that especially now with my place hitting 30*c they get toasty and could use at least some airflow.

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7 minutes ago, Tankers said:

WR3000 (as my router) is vented on top and bottom. Dell 5070 is vented on top and side (at least I believe the sides are too), but not back/front and M93Q is vented on front/back (I know my image is bad but I was going to put the fan in front of it as it's dumping heat from CPU with the vent out back).
My current problem is that especially now with my place hitting 30*c they get toasty and could use at least some airflow.

What temps are you seeing? Most electronics is rated of about 40c max, so you still have a lot of temp headroom here.

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2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

What temps are you seeing? Most electronics is rated of about 40c max, so you still have a lot of temp headroom here.

60-65 on my router
60-65 on 5070
65-70 on M93Q
I can feel the heat when 1-2cm off their cases and I can definitely feel it while touching them, they feel a bit like Sony Z5C while under stress.
I know those aren't really high temps, but I do know what an overheating router does with my network, and as I'm already going to put things on shelves I really like to add some fans "just in case".

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3 minutes ago, Tankers said:

60-65 on my router
60-65 on 5070
65-70 on M93Q
I can feel the heat when 1-2cm off their cases and I can definitely feel it while touching them, they feel a bit like Sony Z5C while under stress.
I know those aren't really high temps, but I do know what an overheating router does with my network, and as I'm already going to put things on shelves I really like to add some fans "just in case".

Is that a CPU temp, or case temps or something else? 

 

For CPU temps, those are fine, and well within spec, and I wouldn't worry at all.

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49 minutes ago, Tankers said:

60-65 on my router

As another idea, when I was using prebuilt routers I always added fans to them. The advantage to this was the fan was built in and powered by the router.  With the downside that you obviously will void any warranty you have. 

 

Some random examples:

 

router4.jpg

 

mr96003.jpg

 

I found any air flow was plenty. A 40mm fan was fine. It also didn't matter if I could exactly get it directly over the CPU, or over the heatsink, just airflow through the device worked great.

 

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1 hour ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Is that a CPU temp, or case temps or something else? 

 

For CPU temps, those are fine, and well within spec, and I wouldn't worry at all.

The OP is suggesting they have had problems with the network having problems because of temps...

I've been using computers since around 1978, started learning programming in 1980 on Apple IIs, started learning about hardware in 1990, ran a BBS from 1990-95, built my first Windows PC around 2000, taught myself malware removal starting in 2005 (also learned on Bleeping Computer), learned web dev starting in 2017, and I think I can fill a thimble with all that knowledge. 😉 I'm not an expert, which is why I keep investigating the answers that others give to try and improve my knowledge, so feel free to double-check the advice I give.

My phone's auto-correct is named Otto Rong.🤪😂

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5 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Is that a CPU temp, or case temps or something else? 

 

For CPU temps, those are fine, and well within spec, and I wouldn't worry at all.

I believe it's CPU, but cases for all of them are a bit hot to touch. 

 

5 hours ago, OhioYJ said:

As another idea, when I was using prebuilt routers I always added fans to them. The advantage to this was the fan was built in and powered by the router.  With the downside that you obviously will void any warranty you have. 

 

Some random examples:

 

router4.jpg

 

mr96003.jpg

 

I found any air flow was plenty. A 40mm fan was fine. It also didn't matter if I could exactly get it directly over the CPU, or over the heatsink, just airflow through the device worked great.

 

It's a neat idea, but it's a brand new router so I will pass on it.

 

3 hours ago, RevGAM said:

The OP is suggesting they have had problems with the network having problems because of temps...

Yep I had multiple routers causing troubles due to overheating, solved with dremel/unscrewing and mounting additional heatsinks

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