RAM compatibility check

[SuperFatCaterpillar12]

I want to buy additional 2x8GB of DDR4 memory, namely it's Patriot 16GB (2x8GB) 4400MHz CL19 Viper Steel and I'm wondering if these had different versions/revisions of the same ones and if so, would it cause any issues when adding them to the same sticks I already have in my PC?

[ARandomPerson]

Why 4400 Mhz? No CPU from DDR4 can take advantage of those speeds. What is your current RAM setup as of right now? Speeds and latency will be the weakest link type of situation in the sense that if you had CL20 3200MHZ on one stick and CL15 3000 Mhz as the other's capabilities, you would end up with CL20 3000Mhz.

[SuperFatCaterpillar12]

Everything is fine, as I said I'm running them already in 2x8GB configuration and set them at 4000 cl15/16/16 in bios on i9 10850k CPU non overclocked (only removed power limits), mobo is MSI Z490 Tomahawk. I got the performance boost from them long time ago, maybe wasn't worth the price but I enjoyed it. I won't buy slower memory at this point so I just wanna get the same up to 32GB which would be 4x8GB. I'm still expecting the right answer to my question from someone  

[Somerandomtechyboi]

45 minutes ago, ARandomPerson said:

Why 4400 Mhz? No CPU from DDR4 can take advantage of those speeds. What is your current RAM setup as of right now? Speeds and latency will be the weakest link type of situation in the sense that if you had CL20 3200MHZ on one stick and CL15 3000 Mhz as the other's capabilities, you would end up with CL20 3000Mhz.

ryzen 4000 (renoir) and 5000 (cezzane) apus yes including the 5500/5700, the former being able to do 4400-4600 and the latter being able to do ~5000 in 1:1 fclk

 

for intel its 9th 10th 13th and 14th gen, former two are capable of ~4400 with vccsa/io around 1.45v (can go higher but not advisable for daily) and latter two capable of around 4200-4500 gear 1

 

26 minutes ago, SuperFatCaterpillar12 said:

Everything is fine, as I said I'm running them already in 2x8GB configuration and set them at 4000 cl15/16/16 in bios on i9 10850k CPU non overclocked (only removed power limits), mobo is MSI Z490 Tomahawk. I got the performance boost from them long time ago, maybe wasn't worth the price but I enjoyed it. I won't buy slower memory at this point so I just wanna get the same up to 32GB which would be 4x8GB. I'm still expecting the right answer to my question from someone  

should be running closer to 4400 rather than 4000, you sure you cant run higher if you raise vccsa/io to 1.4/1.45v?

 

4400c19 19-19-19 viper is samsung bdie same stuff you get from 3200c14 afaik so not really high bin but that shouldnt matter that much as long as you arent overtightening cl, and yes this bin will be bdie no matter what so you can add another kit of the same bin or 3200/3600c14 and you wont run into any issues except clocking 4 stick

 

afaik msi is daisychain rather than t top so you might have some issues trying to run 4000+ on quad stick so you may wanna consider selling your current kit and getting a 2x16 bdie kit instead either 3200c14 or 4400c19 bin, should be a few of em available used and you shouldnt have any issues with clocking em cause its only 2 sticks rather than 4 (not running into boardlimit)

 

ill just summon @RONOTHAN## since i only know some really general info for ddr4

[RONOTHAN##]

27 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

ryzen 4000 (renoir) and 5000 (cezzane) apus yes including the 5500/5700, the former being able to do 4400-4600 and the latter being able to do ~5000 in 1:1 fclk

 

for intel its 9th 10th 13th and 14th gen, former two are capable of ~4400 with vccsa/io around 1.45v (can go higher but not advisable for daily) and latter two capable of around 4200-4500 gear 1

These Intel speeds are a little generous, there are very much chips that don't do over 4000MT/s for Gear 1, in fact most don't do over 4133. 4500 Gear 1 is a joke, basically nothing does that. 

 

31 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

afaik msi is daisychain rather than t top so you might have some issues trying to run 4000+ on quad stick

Their DDR4 daisy chain is pretty good though. I've gotten 4400 to work with 4x8GB before on an MSI Z590 board (I think it was a Z590-A Pro with a 10600K), where 4400 worked basically on auto. Granted, this was with Micron Rev.E and not B die, so that might lower the memory speed a bit, but 4266 should hopefully just work. 

 

 

[SuperFatCaterpillar12]

27 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

should be running closer to 4400 rather than 4000, you sure you cant run higher if you raise vccsa/io to 1.4/1.45v?

I'm not an expert at setting all of this long list of timings myself to get the maximum performance, so I just used a preset in bios and tested for stability,  it was a reasonable option out of  rest I saw there. Also additionally I didn't want to play with voltages if i'm not setting everything by hand.

 

38 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

afaik msi is daisychain rather than t top so you might have some issues trying to run 4000+ on quad stick so you may wanna consider selling your current kit and getting a 2x16 bdie kit instead either 3200c14 or 4400c19 bin, should be a few of em available used and you shouldnt have any issues with clocking em cause its only 2 sticks rather than 4 (not running into boardlimit)

I was following this topic at some point but didnt know that when buying this computer; it will be a tough time trying to sell this kit in Poland where I live from my considerations unless I would make it super cheap, so I rather keep it.

[SuperFatCaterpillar12]

21 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

These Intel speeds are a little generous, there are very much chips that don't do over 4000MT/s for Gear 1, in fact most don't do over 4133. 4500 Gear 1 is a joke, basically nothing does that. 

 

Their DDR4 daisy chain is pretty good though. I've gotten 4400 to work with 4x8GB before on an MSI Z590 board (I think it was a Z590-A Pro with a 10600K), where 4400 worked basically on auto. Granted, this was with Micron Rev.E and not B die, so that might lower the memory speed a bit, but 4266 should hopefully just work. 

 

 

What about my question on possibly different revisions, should I just don't consider that and buy the extra kit?

[RONOTHAN##]

2 minutes ago, SuperFatCaterpillar12 said:

What about my question on possibly different revisions, should I just don't consider that and buy the kit?

All Patriot Viper Steel 4400 CL19-19-19 is going to be the exact same Samsung B die, so it should just work. The only issues you might run into are going to be related to just 4x8GB at high speeds, not intercompatibility issues. 

 

The only reason I might avoid getting this is the price, this is a high end kit and whether the performance actually justifies the price is a bit questionable, especially for a ~4 year old CPU like the 10850K. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

19 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

These Intel speeds are a little generous, there are very much chips that don't do over 4000MT/s for Gear 1, in fact most don't do over 4133. 4500 Gear 1 is a joke, basically nothing does that. 

i wonder why i saw some ppl getting 13th/14th gen chips that can do 4500 gear 1 on some ddr4 oc megathread but i cant find it anymore

 

so i guess intel imc is just straight up downgraded after 10th gen aside from running 5200+ gear 2

 

9 minutes ago, SuperFatCaterpillar12 said:

I'm not an expert at setting all of this long list of timings myself to get the maximum performance, so I just used a preset in bios and tested for stability,  it was a reasonable option out of  rest I saw there. Also additionally I didn't want to play with voltages if i'm not setting everything by hand.

you dont need to be as there are plenty of bdie 4000-4400 settings out there you can just copy paste though youll wanna make sure its for 9th/10th gen and base sticks are 3200c14/4400c19 bdie just to ensure that itll work without any tweaking neccessary or at worst just minor adjustments

 

voltages wise you literally cant kill anything and especially not the rams (bdie is known for handling 2v+) so all you really have to worry about is heat which usually kicks in around 1.5-1.55v for bdie if you are running with no fan, with a fan skies the limit but afaik you wont see much improvement past a certain volt for your given frequency and you probably wont make use of 1.7v+ and ~1.7-1.8v is about the limit before needing maxmem (cutting ram capacity) for bdie, afaik imc degradation only happens >1.45v vccsa/io and vdimm doesnt affect it whatsoever

 

6 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

All Patriot Viper Steel 4400 CL19-19-19 is going to be the exact same Samsung B die, so it should just work. The only issues you might run into are going to be related to just 4x8GB at high speeds, not intercompatibility issues. 

 

The only reason I might avoid getting this is the price, this is a high end kit and whether the performance actually justifies the price is a bit questionable, especially for a ~4 year old CPU like the 10850K. 

^^^

for cutting down on price look at 3200c14 kits (same samsung bdie) and used bdie kits

 

33 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Their DDR4 daisy chain is pretty good though. I've gotten 4400 to work with 4x8GB before on an MSI Z590 board (I think it was a Z590-A Pro with a 10600K), where 4400 worked basically on auto. Granted, this was with Micron Rev.E and not B die, so that might lower the memory speed a bit, but 4266 should hopefully just work. 

i guess its not like their b3/450 boards where they may struggle to go past 3600

[SuperFatCaterpillar12]

3 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

The only reason I might avoid getting this is the price, this is a high end kit and whether the performance actually justifies the price is a bit questionable, especially for a ~4 year old CPU like the 10850K. 

I found a pretty good offer on these used, my main goal is just having 32GB at this point coz everything out of a sudden started to use more and more memory, and I feel like 16 is not enough for my needs.

[RONOTHAN##]

7 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

i wonder why i saw some ppl getting 13th/14th gen chips that can do 4500 gear 1 on some ddr4 oc megathread but i cant find it anymore

 

so i guess intel imc is just straight up downgraded after 10th gen aside from running 5200+ gear 2

There are screenshots of 4500+ Gear 1, yet I'm not aware of anyone who has gotten that 24/7 stable. 

 

and yeah, 10th gen IMC is the best DDR4 IMC they made, debatably the best IMC in general as it doesn't have the weird issues of 12/13/14th gen DDR5.

 

8 minutes ago, SuperFatCaterpillar12 said:

I found a pretty good offer on these used, my main goal is just having 32GB at this point coz everything out of a sudden started to use more and more memory, and I feel like 16 is not enough for my needs.

Understandable. If you're getting it for a good deal used, then yeah go for it. Just know that you might need to drop the memory speed down slightly when you install this kit, though not by a ton and because its going to be dual rank, even at the slower speed there will be a performance advantage. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

31 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

There are screenshots of 4500+ Gear 1, yet I'm not aware of anyone who has gotten that 24/7 stable. 

 

and yeah, 10th gen IMC is the best DDR4 IMC they made, debatably the best IMC in general as it doesn't have the weird issues of 12/13/14th gen DDR5.

what about cezzane imc? i mean it can clock rams to ~5000 while staying in 1:1 fclk and using sane voltages (~1.35-1.4v vsoc)

 

so i guess i just saw someone screenshotting 4500 just for frequency or benching

 

44 minutes ago, SuperFatCaterpillar12 said:

I found a pretty good offer on these used, my main goal is just having 32GB at this point coz everything out of a sudden started to use more and more memory, and I feel like 16 is not enough for my needs.

go for it maybe run it abit higher cause 4000 is just wasted potential considering the imc, maybe 4200-4400, ram fan is prefferable in general but is a must if you are pushing past 1.5v especially at this kinda freq cause bdie is really temperature sensitive

[RONOTHAN##]

21 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

what about cezzane imc?

Forgot about that, yeah its better. Should've specified 10th gen is the best Intel IMC. 

 

23 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

using sane voltages (~1.35-1.4v vsoc)

Not sure I'd call 1.35V sane SOC voltage. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just now, RONOTHAN## said:

Forgot about that, yeah its better. Should've specified 10th gen is the best Intel IMC. 

 

Not sure I'd call 1.35V sane SOC voltage. 

igpu oc tutorials go up to 1.45v btw

 

the apus scale with vsoc but the cpus dont so theyre pretty different, low vsoc cripples igpu overclocking so itd be pretty stupid not to run it up abit for 2400-2500 on the igpu