Piracy.

[Osmium]

I give up.

You all have killed my faith in rational conversation for the night.

[Askew]

It logically is not any more severe than an older person, it is a human distinction, hard wired, but hard wired is only taught, we learn from peers and surroundings, without experience, humans do not learn.

 

Your opinions are also a human distinction.

 

Experience has shown us that kids are worth more to society than adults because they'll live longer and their reach is undetermined, companies would rather hire someone young, nobody wants to grow old because youth and young age is invaluable to humanity.

 

An old man has experienced that stage of life, where as a child has not yet had that gift, terminating them both at the same time is very skewed in fairness.

[Recon-UK]

Your opinions are also a human distinction.

 

Experience has shown us that kids are worth more to society than adults because they'll live longer and their reach is undetermined, companies would rather hire someone young, nobody wants to grow old because youth and young age is invaluable to humanity.

 

An old man has experienced that, a child has not yet had that gift yet, terminating them both at the same time is very skewed in fairness.

This is true, but a murder is a murder, severity cannot be increased, the only real reason people feel more sorry for the child is lack of experience, a human cannot miss what they have not experienced, only an adult can think that they are missing something.

[Osmium]

A 14 year old is still a child, but it's the idea that the adult mind is more prepared for something as serious as rape.

Anyway, this is getting very out of hand, so I'll just leave this here.

 

I get what you are saying but let me just leave off with a final analogy.

 

     So you have a new city that was just built with with high quality alloys and more rigorous stability/safety requirements by the state than the 100 year old city 10 miles in another direction. Both cities are hit with atom bombs. Both cities are reduced to dust.

[Charger]

I get what you are saying but let me just leave off with a final analogy.

 

     So you have a new city that was just built with with high quality alloys and more rigorous stability/safety requirements by the state than the 100 year old city 10 miles in another direction. Both cities are hit with atom bombs. Both cities are reduced to dust.

Those are the same thing. A more accurate depiction of what he is saying may be more like a military force went through and killed all children in one town and all adults in the other. Would those events be viewed the same?

[Moredeath]

Those are the same thing. A more accurate diction of what he is saying may be more like a military force went through and killed all children in one town and all adults in the other. Would those events be viewed the same?

 

Food for thought.

[Fred Castellum]

I'll have to agree with Askew here, he brings up good points. Are we using logic based reasoning or moral reasoning for our decisions on the topic? 

 

Ok not taking moral standards, is rape of a child worse than rape of a grown woman? With logic based thinking we say, rape is rape and rape carries its consequences across the board. However If its a young child that's raped then "logically" its worse off than if it was a grown woman in most cases because a young child gets the traumatic experience much earlier in his/her life. Its not a matter of oh its morally worse off because the kid is younger and hasn't "experienced" as much as the grown woman before the traumatic event, its matter of facts down on the paper. You see the adult gets this experience later down the line and it acts as a hinder to them much later when compared to the child who gets it earlier and is a hinder at a younger age. 

 

In moral based thinking we can all guess what the general consensus.

 

 

Those are the same thing. A more accurate diction of what he is saying may be more like a military force went through and killed all children in one town and all adults in the other. Would those events be viewed the same?

Morally no, logically yes and no. Logically with the facts down on the table, one would say its murder and murder is well... simply put "murder" and therefore is the same. But logically the people murdered are different, because of the age gap so therefore its also a no.

[Askew]

This is true, but a murder is a murder, severity cannot be increased, the only real reason people feel more sorry for the child is lack of experience, a human cannot miss what they have not experienced, only an adult can think that they are missing something.

 

Murder is murder yes it is, but severity can be different in my opinion because murder is the crime and as a term is wholly static in it's nature, it says nothing of the circumstances of the fact.

 

After the fact, circumstances are viewed in all cases of the perpetrator being brough to trial.

 

It makes a big difference for instance if the murderer had shot a stranger because he had just lost a big bet on the horses and couldn't deal with it and had to take his frustration out on somebody innocent, as opposed to a man who came home to find another man has broken in through a window and is raping his wife/kid, he takes out his gun and shoots that man.

 

Those two situations shouldn't be viewed or acted on similarly, the killings took place for hugely different reasons.

 

Think of that man in Texas who came home to the sort of circumstances in scenario 2, what do you think about that? Do you think he should have gone to prison for killing the rapist for the same amount of time as someone who killed someone for no good reason?

 

I most certainly do not.

[Osmium]

Those are the same thing. A more accurate depiction of what he is saying may be more like a military force went through and killed all children in one town and all adults in the other. Would those events be viewed the same?

 

I don't think you understand my symbolism. The atom bomb represents a terrible event and the two cities represent two different types of people. One of them might be more damaged than the other but the amount is so negligible there is no point saying that one will take it better than the other.

[Recon-UK]

Murder is murder yes it is, but severity can be different in my opinion because murder is the crime and as a term is wholly static in it's nature, it says nothing of the circumstances of the fact.

 

After the fact, circumstances are viewed in all cases of the perpetrator being brough to trial.

 

It makes a big difference for instance if the murderer had shot a stranger because he had just lost a big bet on the horses and couldn't deal with it and had to take his frustration out on somebody innocent, as opposed to a man who came home to find another man has broken in through a window and is raping his wife/kid, he takes out his gun and shoots that man.

 

Those two situations shouldn't be viewed or acted on similarly, the killings took place for hugely different reasons.

 

Think of that man in Texas who came home to the sort of circumstances in scenario 2, what do you think about that? Do you think he should have gone to prison for killing the rapist for the same amount of time as someone who killed someone for no good reason?

Revenge and standing your ground were not took into account on my behalf, so you are fully correct on that part.

[Askew]

I don't think you understand my symbolism. The atom bomb represents a terrible event and the two cities represent two different types of people. One of them might be more damaged than the other but the amount is so negligible there is no point saying that one will take it better than the other.

 

I understood your analogy, but I don't think that rape is terminal, it doesn't kill.

 

It ruins some people where as others could recover with time at least to some degree.

 

In the scenario presented in your analogy, the type of people in either city is not relevant because the force of the event is too great, their individual ability to recover from the event cannot be measured.

[Askew]

Revenge and standing your ground were not took into account on my behalf, so you are fully correct on that part.

 

OK so now murder isn't just murder, there are degrees.

 

Theft is not just theft either in my opinion, there are degrees.

 

If you get a phone call to say that someone has stolen a £10 note from your bank account, you say "ok thank you I will deal with this later" and go about your day pending action later on, maybe thinking "how'd that happen, damn thieves..."

 

If you get that same phone call to say that someone has emptied your life savings of £600 thousand from your bank acount, you will be a mess of pulse racing sweat driving at very high speed to the bank immediately  to see what in blue fuck has happened.

 

Theft, in both cases, but varying degrees.

[Fred Castellum]

Half of my stuff in my PC is pirated including windows, photoshop, music, videos & etc... It's pretty cool to get stuff for free Long live Pirate bay! Best site ever!

Not really contributing to the discussion much buddy =/

 

Just stating you like pirating lol.....

[Recon-UK]

OK so now murder isn't just murder, there are degrees.

 

Theft is not just theft either in my opinion, there are degrees.

 

If you get a phone call to say that someone has stolen a £10 note from your bank account, you say "ok thank you I will deal with this later" and go about your day pending action later on, maybe thinking "how'd that happen, damn thieves..."

 

If you get that same phone call to say that someone has emptied your life savings of £600 thousand from your bank acount, you will be a mess of pulse racing sweat driving at very high speed to the bank immediately  to see what in blue fuck has happened.

 

Theft, in both cases, but varying degrees.

Yup, this does not sway from my original point though, the people who neglect the system do not think this way.

[Osmium]

-snip-

 

Well you understand my analogy at least but I am not sure you get how psychologically damaging rape is. At least with the person I know who was raped it really is the mental equivalent of an atom bomb. A 40 year old will take it better but the damage is still so extreme I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

 

I understood your analogy, but I don't think that rape is terminal, it doesn't kill.

 

It ruins some people where as others could recover with time at least to some degree.

 

In the scenario presented in your analogy, the type of people in either city is not relevant because the force of the event is too great, their individual ability to recover from the event cannot be measured.

 

It is not terminal but in the long term neither is an atom bomb. Look at Chernobyl after 30-40 years later (I forget) it is starting to come back ecologically. However I get you probably did not make that connection at all because now that I think about it is a little bit of a stretch even though I did not intend it that way.

 

My point overall is it is not technically equally horrible, but both cases are so horrible what does the extra damage even mean anyway.

 

Anyway I think I really am off for realsies this time. I am sick, tired, and sick so I need rest.

[Charger]

I don't think you understand my symbolism. The atom bomb represents a terrible event and the two cities represent two different types of people. One of them might be more damaged than the other but the amount is so negligible there is no point saying that one will take it better than the other.

I understand what you are saying that is why i said those events are the same

 

OK so now murder isn't just murder, there are degrees.

 

Theft is not just theft either in my opinion, there are degrees.

 

If you get a phone call to say that someone has stolen a £10 note from your bank account, you say "ok thank you I will deal with this later" and go about your day pending action later on, maybe thinking "how'd that happen, damn thieves..."

 

If you get that same phone call to say that someone has emptied your life savings of £600 thousand from your bank acount, you will be a mess of pulse racing sweat driving at very high speed to the bank immediately  to see what in blue fuck has happened.

 

Theft, in both cases, but varying degrees.

Realistically piracy is more like getting a call and having someone tell you $10 that you never had will never be yours 

[Recon-UK]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Everyone reacts differently, but 99% of the time older people deal with it better. I personally know a few rape victims through my older sister, and they deal with it pretty well, they just needed a ton of support the first few months of the incident happening.

Support is the real key, most children do not have access to this due to inexperience, i suppose this is the only case where it could be classified as a harsher of the two comparisons, guilt is a massive one, including helplessness and being scared, which are all natural.

[Askew]

Realistically piracy is more like getting a call and having someone tell you $10 that you never had will never be yours 

 

In a lot of cases, yes it is, and that's why I am of the opinion that it is not as serious as other crimes, even other crimes of theft.

[slenderman379]

Not when it's 900 million people stealing $10 notes lol.

 

If they really wanted their money.. They would have made game of thrones available everywhere in the world.

I have no choice but to watchbit illegaly..

Or maybe wair like what 4 years?

Imagine the spoilers.

Same logic for a bunch of other stuff too.

[Avcn42]

Not when it's 900 million people stealing $10 notes lol.

 

Yep. I live in Brazil and even though we can afford these games, the price is just ridiculous and it's just not fair. I've seen people complaining about paying 60 bucks for a game...let me see how you react when you know I paid something equivalent to 90 dollars on a 3DS game...

[Askew]

Yup, this does not sway from my original point though, the people who neglect the system do not think this way.

 

We still haven't got past the fact that theft of a physical object is definite deprival of the owner by the thief, piracy is potential deprivation of revenue, in a lot of cases the pirate wouldn't buy the thing anyway.

 

As a result, it's easy to pass the situation off to someone investigating you by simply saying "I wasn't going to buy it anyway".

 

If that's true, you're still a thief, but I'd punish you less severely than a person I had found joyriding in my car, because the element of deprival of my money/items has occured for certain, and it annoys me more.

 

I think it is that factor, the factor of indefinite deprival of revenue that makes it much easier to accept online piracy socially, along with other vehicles for acceptance such as invasive DRM from software companies that punishes legitimate consumers and not pirates, unskippable annoying piracy warnings on DVD/Blu-Rays that are not even present on a downloaded film.

 

The dark side of the social acceptance occurs in a scenario where the pirate would always buy a game if it were not available for free (which I believe to be the minority scenario) the loss incurred by the producer of the content in such circumstances goes virtually ignored by society, when the theft of someones car is always noticed because it is a binary and wholly transparent event.

 

I don't think piracy is the same type of theft, and I don't think a pirate is necessarily the same type of thief.

[Askew]

Not when it's 900 million people stealing $10 notes lol.

 

 

They are only taking physical money if they would have definitely paid for the game if piracy were not an option, if they would not have bought it anyway, it's cost nothing, it's just replications of sofware by third parties.

[Recon-UK]

We still haven't got past the fact that theft of a physical object is definite deprival of the owner by the thief, piracy is potential deprivation of revenue, in a lot of cases the pirate wouldn't buy thing anyway.

 

As a result, it's easy to pass the situation off to someone investigating you by simply saying "I wasn't going to buy it anyway".

 

If that's true, you're still a thief, but I'd punish you less severely than a person I had found joyriding in my car, because the element of deprival of my money/items has occured for certain, and it annoys me more.

 

I think that factor, the factor of indefinite deprival of revenue that makes it much easier to accept online piracy socially, along with other vehicles for acceptance such as invasive DRM from software companies that punishes legitimate consumers and not pirates, unskippable annoying piracy warnings on DVD/Blu-Rays that are not even present on a downloaded film.

 

The dark side of the social acceptance is that the dark side, where the pirate would always buy a game if it were not available for free (which I believe to be the minority scenario) is that the loss incurred by the producer of the content goes virtually ignored by society, when the theft of someones car is always noticed because it is a binary and wholly transparent event.

Without an option to pirate, your natural interest and curiosity would more than likely lead you to buying it, after all, you only visit a torrent site for stuff you are interested in when it suits you.

[Recon-UK]

We still haven't got past the fact that theft of a physical object is definite deprival of the owner by the thief, piracy is potential deprivation of revenue, in a lot of cases the pirate wouldn't buy the thing anyway.

 

As a result, it's easy to pass the situation off to someone investigating you by simply saying "I wasn't going to buy it anyway".

 

If that's true, you're still a thief, but I'd punish you less severely than a person I had found joyriding in my car, because the element of deprival of my money/items has occured for certain, and it annoys me more.

 

I think it is that factor, the factor of indefinite deprival of revenue that makes it much easier to accept online piracy socially, along with other vehicles for acceptance such as invasive DRM from software companies that punishes legitimate consumers and not pirates, unskippable annoying piracy warnings on DVD/Blu-Rays that are not even present on a downloaded film.

 

The dark side of the social acceptance is that the dark side, where the pirate would always buy a game if it were not available for free (which I believe to be the minority scenario) is that the loss incurred by the producer of the content goes virtually ignored by society, when the theft of someones car is always noticed because it is a binary and wholly transparent event.

 

I don't think piracy is the same type of theft, and I don't think a pirate is necessarily the same type of thief.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/156734-unbeatable-cinavia-anti-piracy-technology-cracked-by-dvd-ranger/

[Charger]

Without an option to pirate, your natural interest and curiosity would more than likely lead you to buying it, after all, you only visit a torrent site for stuff you are interested in when it suits you.

I do not believe that is really the case in a lot of situations. Take Photoshop as an example where most people that have pirated it would never buy it because of its price and what people tend to use it for. It is not logical to assume people that pirate Photoshop for home use would ever pay hundreds of dollars to edit a photo that they didn't even need edited in the first place.