DDR4 vs DDR5

[superbrett2000]

Getting ready to purchase parts for my build and I need to make a decision on DDR4 vs. DDR5.

 

From what I've gathered online DDR5, while quicker, isn't so much faster that I'd see a meaningful or even noticeable difference in my system performance vs. DDR4. I'm targeting a Core i9-12900K for my build; it seems like a pretty good sweet spot for performance but willing to consider something a little pricier if it'll bring big enough performance gains. 

 

Aside from gaming with MS Flight Sim being a title I'll spend a ton of time on, I will be using my PC for developing personal gaming projects, 3D art, and probably video editing so I'll be planning for a lot of RAM.

 

To stay within my somewhat loose budget I'm thinking:

- DDR5 means going with 64 GB RAM.

- DDR4 means I likely go with 128 GB RAM.

 

I'm thinking given my scenario the DDR4 route is the way to go. I don't even know if the CPU I'm targeting would benefit from DDR5 as it is and there's probably some amount of FOMO that's likely to go away once I get gaming and forget about it. 

 

Any thoughts on this?

[rippy4500]

Id use DDR5 cause you'll be able to carry it over to new builds in the future. LGA 1700 supports it now but the next socket probably wont, AM5 already doesn't support it.

Which board are you going to using? A better board will allow for higher ram speeds which helps performance.

DDR5 also has 96GB kits if you wanna look into that.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#b=ddr5&S=6400,8400&Z=65536002,98304002
2x32 and 2x48 kits, 6400mhz+, find whatever fits your budget and is from a good brand.

Also please get a contact frame, helps thermals alot. Thermalright makes a cheap one for like $15 and it's worth it for the improvement you get.
You could go for a 13900KF (saves money over regular K model for functionally the same chip except IGPU), check the pricing in your area and benchmarks online for your exact usecases to see if it's worth the price hike cause I think its a good bit more expensive IIRC.

[RONOTHAN##]

27 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

I'm targeting a Core i9-12900K for my build

I'd avoid it if you can, the 13700K is just a better chip in every way for the same price. The 14700K might also be worth looking at, though it's a bit more expensive and not that much of an improvement. Looking at AMD might be a better idea though, the 7900X is about the same performance as the 12900K but with lower requirements for the motherboard, so price wise you'd end up with a cheaper for the same performance. 

 

29 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

I don't even know if the CPU I'm targeting would benefit from DDR5 as it is

Yeah, DDR5 is faster than DDR4 in most situations. It's usually in the ~5% range, so not that much, but enough that I would try to avoid DDR4 in most situations. 

 

If 64GB of RAM will be enough for you, go DDR5. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

7800x3d will demolish a 12900k

keep in mind that a 13700k already runs circles around the 12900k

 

pair that with a cheap overbuilt board like the b650m hdv (will handle an overclocked 7950x with ease) and you now have better performance at a fraction of the power draw whilst having an upgradable platform where you just drop the cpu in without doing a mobo nor ram swap

 

2 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

Id use DDR5 cause you'll be able to carry it over to new builds in the future

*does not apply to trash kits that cant do >7000 like samsung or micron

 

should be fine as long as you stick to the low cl kits thatll come with either hynix m (~7600) or a die (10000+)

[rippy4500]

12 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

7800x3d will demolish a 12900k

In gaming maybe but im not sure it compares the same in professional tasks like what OP plans on doing. And if he does get a 13th gen chip like people recommend it'll be even faster. Intel does way better than the 7800X3D in professional tasks that use many cores.

12 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

does not apply to trash kits that cant do >7000 like samsung or micron

Speed doesn't matter for compatibility, not sure what you're trying to say.

Also high capacity sticks like what OP needs can't run at nearly the same speed as 32G kits. 6400+ will probably be A-die for 32G kits but im unsure if that applies to higher capacity kits, (Edit: I think it still does apply to 64G kits based on a quick google search).

[RONOTHAN##]

3 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

Speed doesn't matter for compatibility, not sure what you're trying to say.

Pretty sure they're trying to imply that the kit would be too slow to be relevant with newer platforms. That sentiment at least makes some sense, but is still BS, those kits will be slow but RAM performance doesn't matter as much as they're implying it does. 

 

4 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

6400+ will probably be A-die for 32G kits but im unsure if that applies to higher capacity kits.

Eh, some people have gotten 7200 to work on 2x32GB setups, and with the dual rank kit I own I've had it make it into Windows at all the way up to DDR5 8000 (it can barely do a frequency validation though), though in terms of actually being able to run without spending hours if not days of tuning, 6000-6800 is about the limit. 

 

If you meant the die revision, it's about the same for 2x32 as it is 2x16, 6400+ is basically guaranteed A die, 6000 is usually A die though can be M die in some instances. 

[rippy4500]

7 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Eh, some people have gotten 7200 to work on 2x32GB setups, and with the dual rank kit I own I've had it make it into Windows at all the way up to DDR5 8000 (it can barely do a frequency validation though), though in terms of actually being able to run without spending hours if not days of tuning, 6000-6800 is about the limit. 

I was talking the reasonably achievable speed anyway, not theoretical maximum. I know you can do 7200 but it's probably difficult af to get 100% stable and also probably requires a very good IMC and mobo. Also I know dual rank performs different than single rank.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

34 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

Speed doesn't matter for compatibility, not sure what you're trying to say.

Also high capacity sticks like what OP needs can't run at nearly the same speed as 32G kits. 6400+ will probably be A-die for 32G kits but im unsure if that applies to higher capacity kits, (Edit: I think it still does apply to 64G kits based on a quick google search).

itll be compatible but itll be slow for any future generations that will probably exceed the 7000 mark in a few years to the point that you might even consider upgrading the rams purely for speed, and the low cl kits arent that much more expensive either

 

imc will be the main limit for max freq both single rank and dual rank not the modules

 

garbage pcbs from oems still clock pretty high even if dual rank form and yes this is a stable 2800c11 or used to be (seems like they degraded even more at only 2.1v but ive sold my cfrs off now) so im pretty sure a decent pcb youd get on an xmp stick can probs push 8000+ dual rank once the imcs stop sucking

 

btw imc and boardlimit here hence 2 sticks as bloomfield refuses to run 1:1 uncore with 3 sticks otherwise stuck c3 or c5 code and 3rd channel refuss to go past 2800 and gets flaky past 2600, though i dont need to run triple channel to prove the ram pcbs capabilities, and im pretty sure the pcbs are capable of abit more but cfr is kinda trash at c11 so stuck at 2800 stable 3000-3100 ish max bootable, maybe ill buy some dual rank rams with actually good ics

 

what im suspecting now is hynix m die being the baseline just like old ddr4 hynix mfr, trash but still able to do the minimum (3200) for newer platforms and still perfectly usable, since ddr5 is still pretty new 6000 is standard just like how 2133-2666 was standard back then

 

im simply predicting ahead of time based off ddr4

[superbrett2000]

Didn't expect to start such a debate

 

Going to switch over to the 13700k based on the comments. Thoughts about considering the 13900k and if the extra $150 is worth it? I read something recently about a bunch of 13th and I think 14th gen chips failing so that made me a little wary of those for a while. I am a bit of an Intel fanboy (my current system is an AMD though) and I think they're back to making decent stuff again. 

 

I'm not all that concerned about upgradeability. I tend to stick with my builds for long enough that its' pretty out of date before I just build another one. I'll upgrade GPUs along the way.

 

This will be my first windowed PC build (I've been building PCs for over 20 years) with the Corsair P2000 and I'm planning on the MSI B760 Project Zero. I'm digging the BTF stuff and will have some LED fans too. GPU will be an RTX 4070, probably the Tuf version since I read they the quietest relatively speaking.

 

After looking at mobo prices some more I think I'm gonna go the DDR5 route. I did find Corsair Vengeance that I'm thinking I start with at 64 GB (which is still a ton) and I'll have two free slots to throw some more in if I need it.

I also saw a 5600mhz variant in a 2x48 GB kit. Is the performance going to be that noticeable compared to the other one I linked running at 6400mhz?

How does the RGB operate on this RAM? Like is it all through the motherboard or do I have to plug something into the RAM to control it? 

[RONOTHAN##]

31 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

I did find Corsair Vengeance that I'm thinking I start with at 64 GB (which is still a ton) and I'll have two free slots to throw some more in if I need it.

I'd probably recommend avoiding Vengeance kits, not because they're bad or anything, but because they tend to be kinda expensive compared to the competition for effectively the exact same RAM. As for the two free slots, just know that you'll only want to use them in very specific circumstances as they dramatically reduce the max memory speed. 

 

31 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

I also saw a 5600mhz variant in a 2x48 GB kit. Is the performance going to be that noticeable compared to the other one I linked running at 6400mhz?

It will definitely be measurably worse, but not that noticeably worse. I'd still try to avoid the 5600MT/s rated kits though, since with 2x48GB at least the compatibility of them is kinda spotty. It's worse on AMD than it is on Intel, but they're still not great, and in the grand scheme of a system budget a 6400Mt/s kit isn't that much more than a 5600MT/s rated kit. 

 

I would personally get one of these two kits depending on if you want 64GB or 96GB:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xJV2FT/oloy-blade-rgb-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6400-cl32-memory-nd5u3264320irkde

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xDcgXL/gskill-trident-z-rgb-96-gb-2-x-48-gb-ddr5-6400-cl32-memory-f5-6400j3239f48gx2-tz5rk

 

31 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

How does the RGB operate on this RAM? Like is it all through the motherboard or do I have to plug something into the RAM to control it? 

There will be RGB software with the motherboard that allows you to control the RAM. That or if you go the Corsair route, use iCUE for the software.

 

 

Also quote so we get a notification, I just happened to come back here. 

[asheenlevrai]

RGB ram modules do not require any additional cable or connector. The RGB is managed through the DIMM slot.

 

If you're not familiar with RGB yet, you might end up in "RGB hell" with all the different vendors requiring to use their (buggy) RGB control app. Or you might feel like you are trapped with one vendor (looking at you Corsair) to keep things easily manageable.

 

OpenRGB is a great free alternative to manage all your RGB from one app (and for free). They use plugins to extend the features of the core app and they have a great supportive community. It may be a bit of a learning curve at the beginning (I'd say 1st 24-48h) but after you get the basics it all makes sense.

 

Best,

-a-

[StarsMars]

4 hours ago, superbrett2000 said:

Going to switch over to the 13700k based on the comments. Thoughts about considering the 13900k and if the extra $150 is worth it? I read something recently about a bunch of 13th and I think 14th gen chips failing so that made me a little wary of those for a while.

Depends on your budget and if you are making money with the productive work you do. 

If the work you're doing on your pc isn't generating income, I'd just stick with the 13700k. It's plenty fast and easier to cool.

 

As far the problems with 13th gen and 14th gen, I think that's only with i9's. Another reason to stick with the 13700k possibly.

JayzTwoCents video on intel issues

[superbrett2000]

6 hours ago, asheenlevrai said:

RGB ram modules do not require any additional cable or connector. The RGB is managed through the DIMM slot.

 

If you're not familiar with RGB yet, you might end up in "RGB hell" with all the different vendors requiring to use their (buggy) RGB control app. Or you might feel like you are trapped with one vendor (looking at you Corsair) to keep things easily manageable.

I plan to stick with Corsair for all of my RGB since I liked their stuff the best from the videos I saw. The other Corsair RGB components I'm considering are:

• CORSAIR iCUE Link H150i RGB Liquid CPU Cooler - 360mm AIO - QX120 RGB Fans
  • This is new territory for me as I've always had air cooling in the past. Not sure if I'd mount to the top of the case or the front (which I need to get a smaller unit if I go with the front). Does placement of an AIO radiator really matter much? Or maybe I'm better off going with their 280mm since it'll have two 140mm fans instead of the 3 120mm fans. I don't plan to overclock and I'd rather whichever route is quieter. 
• Corsair iCUE LINK QX140 RGB 140mm
  • One will serve as an exhaust fan at the back and on the bottom as an intake for the GPU. What I can't decide is how many to put in. My initial thought was three but I'm wondering if that's going to be overkill especially if I want a quieter system. 
• CORSAIR iCUE Link AIO LCD Screen Module
  • Because I just can't help myself after seeing some videos. 

The mobo I selected does support RGB RAM I think, but I don't know if it'll work with iCue. I'm not going to get too hung up on the RAM's RGB though.

2 hours ago, StarsMars said:

Depends on your budget and if you are making money with the productive work you do. 

If the work you're doing on your pc isn't generating income, I'd just stick with the 13700k. It's plenty fast and easier to cool.

 

As far the problems with 13th gen and 14th gen, I think that's only with i9's. Another reason to stick with the 13700k possibly.

JayzTwoCents video on intel issues

Not making money - just gaming and personal projects. Thanks for confirming on those issues - I'm going to stick with the 13700k. 

6 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

I'd probably recommend avoiding Vengeance kits, not because they're bad or anything, but because they tend to be kinda expensive compared to the competition for effectively the exact same RAM. As for the two free slots, just know that you'll only want to use them in very specific circumstances as they dramatically reduce the max memory speed. 

 

It will definitely be measurably worse, but not that noticeably worse. I'd still try to avoid the 5600MT/s rated kits though, since with 2x48GB at least the compatibility of them is kinda spotty. It's worse on AMD than it is on Intel, but they're still not great, and in the grand scheme of a system budget a 6400Mt/s kit isn't that much more than a 5600MT/s rated kit. 

 

I would personally get one of these two kits depending on if you want 64GB or 96GB:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xJV2FT/oloy-blade-rgb-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr5-6400-cl32-memory-nd5u3264320irkde

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xDcgXL/gskill-trident-z-rgb-96-gb-2-x-48-gb-ddr5-6400-cl32-memory-f5-6400j3239f48gx2-tz5rk

 

There will be RGB software with the motherboard that allows you to control the RAM. That or if you go the Corsair route, use iCUE for the software.

 

 

Also quote so we get a notification, I just happened to come back here. 

I could swing a little extra for a 96 GB kit like the one you mentioned. Seems like only using two slots is the way to go, unless I really start to run up against memory limits then the reduced speed would be worth the trade-off. 

 

For $20 more I can get a 6600mhz 96GB kit from Corsair that is iCue compatible. I assume the mobo would also need to be iCue compatible for the RAM to integrate with iCue, but unfortunately I couldn't find any matx Asus BTF boards that weren't going to cost and arm and a leg. RGB RAM is a secondary thing to me so I'm going to jump through a bunch of hoops for the RAM to integrate into the rest of iCue. 

[RONOTHAN##]

43 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

I assume the mobo would also need to be iCue compatible for the RAM to integrate with iCue

No, any motherboard would work with iCPU with RAM. Having an iCUE compatible board would only mean that you can control all the other LEDs on in the system in iCUE rather than having to use a program like OpenRGB, ASUS Aura, MSI Mystic Light, ASRock Polychrome, etc. 

 

47 minutes ago, superbrett2000 said:

For $20 more I can get a 6600mhz 96GB kit from Corsair that is iCue compatible.

OK, just be warned that 6600MT/s is getting into the territory where the XMP profile might not work reliably depending on the quality of your memory controller. 13th/14th gen is known for having a massive difference in IMC quality from one chip to the next, so while some chips with that memory config might do 7000 on auto settings, others will top out at 6000MT/s. Most chips should do 6400, so I'd be OK enough recommending that, though speeds above that are in the territory where you'd likely either need to do some work to get it stable or drop the frequency down to 6400 anyway. 

[Motifator]

Just get AMD, a lot less of a wattage footprint on the high end and yes it will demolish anything Wintel (idiot inside CPU, sorry fellas).

AMD has been outperforming Intel for the past 5 years straight... and will at this rate so on. Their node is 5nm and will go down even further below. Intel's 7nm is not even truly 7, partly is 10nm. So are their half assed "BUT MUH EFFICIENCY CORES".

AMD's core logic (NUMA node based), is far above Intel. Like 12 real AMD cores equal to 20 Intel P + E cores. Go figure.

[superbrett2000]

10 hours ago, Motifator said:

Just get AMD, a lot less of a wattage footprint on the high end and yes it will demolish anything Wintel (idiot inside CPU, sorry fellas).

AMD has been outperforming Intel for the past 5 years straight... and will at this rate so on. Their node is 5nm and will go down even further below. Intel's 7nm is not even truly 7, partly is 10nm. So are their half assed "BUT MUH EFFICIENCY CORES".

AMD's core logic (NUMA node based), is far above Intel. Like 12 real AMD cores equal to 20 Intel P + E cores. Go figure.

What AMD chip would you suggest I cross-shop against? I did some poking around comparing against the Ryzen 7 7800X3D against the 13700k and the AMD was both a little more expensive and didn't offer as good of performance aside from being more energy efficient. If I'm looking at the wrong stuff by all means send me some articles or benchmarks to compare against - but at this point I'm going to go with the Intel chip (not that my mind couldn't be changed with the right data).

[Motifator]

It won't really matter I mean AMD is getting 9000 series CPUs out soon, why rush? Check TPU's review on it, W1z says it's the best gaming CPU. 

Grab DDR5 Lancers btw.

[daygeckoart]

I switched to DDR5 as soon as I could because it has built in error correction

[superbrett2000]

23 hours ago, daygeckoart said:

I switched to DDR5 as soon as I could because it has built in error correction

I didn't know that!

 

On 4/24/2024 at 9:53 PM, Motifator said:

It won't really matter I mean AMD is getting 9000 series CPUs out soon, why rush? Check TPU's review on it, W1z says it's the best gaming CPU. 

Grab DDR5 Lancers btw.

I've been itching to upgrade for a while, and my computer is woefully out of date.

 

Thanks everyone who jumped in. I ordered my stuff and I got most of it already; I don't think the rest of it will come in until Sunday. I did end up going the DDR5 route, though I went with an SFF build (I'd been back/forth on it but I decided I could really use the extra space in an already crowded set up).

 

The shopping list (don't put too much stock into the prices as I ordered from a few different places but they're generally close-ish)

• Intel i7 14700
  • It was only a $40 upgrade over the 13700 I was considering so I figured why not?
• Asus TUF 4070 RTX OC

• Asus ROG B760-I

• 96 GB Corsair Vengeance 6600mhz

  • Sounds like I may need to under clock it a tad, which is fine. 

• Corsair H150i RRGB 360mm AIO

• Corsair P2000d

• Corsair SF-L 1000 watt PSU

• Crucial New 2024 T705 1TB PCIe Gen5 NVMe M.2 SSD - Up to 13,600 MB/s