7800X3D VS. 14700K in terms of end to end latency.

[phazeF]

Hey guys,

I still can't figure out whether I should go for 7800X3D or 14700K, my main priority is the input lag//(End-to-End Latency), responsiveness and smoothness.
as it's my main focus in VALORANT as a pro player.

The 2 Rigs are:

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte AORUS B650 ELITE AX or MSI B650 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB EXPO (CMK32GX5M2B6000Z30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

OR

CPU: Intel i7 14700K/KF

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Z790 ELITE AX or MSI Z790 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB XMP (CMK32GX5M2B6000C30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

[Agall]

1 minute ago, phazeF said:

Hey guys,

I still can't figure out whether I should go for 7800X3D or 14700K, my main priority is the input lag//(End-to-End Latency), responsiveness and smoothness.
as it's my main focus in VALORANT as a pro player.

The 2 Rigs are:

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte AORUS B650 ELITE AX or MSI B650 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB EXPO (CMK32GX5M2B6000Z30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

OR

CPU: Intel i7 14700K/KF

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Z790 ELITE AX or MSI Z790 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB XMP (CMK32GX5M2B6000C30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

I haven't tried a 14700k, but I can tell you 3D v-cache has some magic in this territory. Experienced it with the 5800x3D and have replicated the same results with my 7950x3D when testing CCD0 vs CCD1. The biggest advantage of 3D v-cache being the smoothness of framerate in my opinion.

 

The theory is that the extra 64MB of L3 cache will frequently prevent the need for the CPU to operate out of the RAM for some instructions, like CPU draw calls of player positions. This significantly reduces the latency it takes to draw that call and send it to the GPU.

 

Could the 14700k potentially do that with fast enough RAM, if my theory is correct? Probably, but I'd rather just stick to 3D v-cache for my gaming PCs until its succeeded as the superior technology.

[Hellowpplz]

7 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Hey guys,

I still can't figure out whether I should go for 7800X3D or 14700K, my main priority is the input lag//(End-to-End Latency), responsiveness and smoothness.
as it's my main focus in VALORANT as a pro player.

The 2 Rigs are:

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte AORUS B650 ELITE AX or MSI B650 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB EXPO (CMK32GX5M2B6000Z30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

OR

CPU: Intel i7 14700K/KF

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Z790 ELITE AX or MSI Z790 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB XMP (CMK32GX5M2B6000C30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

14700k>7 7800x3d in terms of performance *in general* 

7 7800x3d > i7 14700k Barely in terms of latency. Not noticeable in my opinion. 3d vcache will give you some more stability for sure.

[TatamiMatt]

3 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Hey guys,

I still can't figure out whether I should go for 7800X3D or 14700K, my main priority is the input lag//(End-to-End Latency), responsiveness and smoothness.
as it's my main focus in VALORANT as a pro player.

The 2 Rigs are:

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte AORUS B650 ELITE AX or MSI B650 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB EXPO (CMK32GX5M2B6000Z30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

OR

CPU: Intel i7 14700K/KF

Cooler: Corsair H150i RGB ELITE 360mm

MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Z790 ELITE AX or MSI Z790 Tomahawk WiFi

GPU: Gigabyte 4070 Super Windforce OC

RAM: Corsair 6000MHZ CL30 32GB XMP (CMK32GX5M2B6000C30)

SSD: SAMSUNG 990 EVO 1TB

First and foremost, the corsair AIO isnt a great cooler and to boot is super expensive, likewise with the 990 pro, very expensive for the performance uplift

 

Also what agall said above for the CPU

 

Also what country and budget do you have (can possibly whip up a better build within the same budget that will be higher performing)

[TatamiMatt]

Just now, Hellowpplz said:

14700k>7 7800x3d in terms of performance

do you mean in valorant? Or in general?

[Hellowpplz]

3 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

do you mean in valorant? Or in general?

In general. can't speak for valorant. I know it takes a dump on my 6 core 4.5ghz boost cpu similar to fortnite so I can imagine 14700k > 7800x3d. Just don't know at what point enough is enough for cores.

[TatamiMatt]

Just now, Hellowpplz said:

In general

7800X3D wins almost everytime in gaming

 

[phazeF]

2 minutes ago, Agall said:

I haven't tried a 14700k, but I can tell you 3D v-cache has some magic in this territory. Experienced it with the 5800x3D and have replicated the same results with my 7950x3D when testing CCD0 vs CCD1. The biggest advantage of 3D v-cache being the smoothness of framerate in my opinion.

 

The theory is that the extra 64MB of L3 cache will frequently prevent the need for the CPU to operate out of the RAM for some instructions, like CPU draw calls of player positions. This significantly reduces the latency it takes to draw that call and send it to the GPU.

Yeah exactly what I thought that the 3D-V cache lessens to pull requests from the RAM all the way, so it results in lower latency as the timeframe of the 3D-V cache is at some point isn't as big as the RAM's.

[Agall]

1 minute ago, Hellowpplz said:

In general

If you're talking about computational performance, yes, the 14700k generally out performs the 7900x. Intel likely gave the 14700k another E-core cluster just to do that.

 

This thread is specifically about gaming though, and the 7800x3D has sufficient IPC in comparison to the 14700k, but almost always will win out in average framerate comparisons because of the 3D v-cache mod.

[Hellowpplz]

Just now, Agall said:

and the 7800x3D has sufficient IPC in comparison to the 14700k, but almost always will win out in average framerate comparisons because of the 3D v-cache mod

 

2 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

7800X3D wins almost everytime in gaming

Added to my knowledge as a brokee with little to no skin in the game with physical components.

[phazeF]

3 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

First and foremost, the corsair AIO isnt a great cooler and to boot is super expensive, likewise with the 990 pro, very expensive for the performance uplift

 

Also what agall said above for the CPU

 

Also what country and budget do you have (can possibly whip up a better build within the same budget that will be higher performing)

I'm Egyptian and I'll buy from amazon.de but not many things I want ship to Egypt. so I'm kinda limited on the coolers. I have Corsair H150, H150i Elite, and Lian Li, they are all about the same, there was a DeepCool LS720 Zero Dark but it went out of stock.

 

Also the SSD is the new 990 EVO* not PRO. so It's a bit cheaper. its like a P3 Plus but samsung has the V-NAND and has more Write MB/s

my budget is around 1600/1700 Euros (Amazon.de)

Prices are slightly lower on Amazon USA, but the only big problem that neither CPUs ship to Egypt.

[Agall]

8 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Yeah exactly what I thought that the 3D-V cache lessens to pull requests from the RAM all the way, so it results in lower latency as the timeframe of the 3D-V cache is at some point isn't as big as the RAM's.

I would say there's some games where its virtually required. The most disproportional increases in performance I saw were in multiplayer games.

 

Something I haven't fully retested yet because of the time commitment, but in Warframe endurance SP Disruption Fissure missions, its usually the most limiting framerate scenario I see. The difference between CCD0 and CCD1 on my 7950x3D in that mission was ~160 fps vs ~240 fps. This is likely due to the NPC mob density while also drawing player positioning. The performance characteristics are similar when playing Solo, which does actually play as if its a single player game (can get up to 1400 fps in this scenario at 4K low settings). 

 

Sadly, the previous 4790k vs 7950x3D testing I did in this game I can't just re-use, since Warframe has made some significant changes on the backend since then, like to how lightning works. Its performance characteristics aren't comparable because of that.

[TatamiMatt]

5 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Also the SSD is the new 990 EVO* not PRO.

Oh interesting, never knew that existed

 

5 minutes ago, phazeF said:

I'm Egyptian and I'll buy from amazon.de but not many things I want ship to Egypt. so I'm kinda limited on the coolers. I have Corsair H150, H150i Elite, and Lian Li, they are all about the same, there was a DeepCool LS720 Zero Dark but it went out of stock.

Any air coolers in stock?

[TatamiMatt]

4 minutes ago, Hellowpplz said:

 

Added to my knowledge as a brokee with little to no skin in the game with physical components.

The 7800X3D actually will beat out the 14900K in overall performance, on a game to game basis they do sometimes trade blows, but generally slightly in favour of the 7800X3D

[Agall]

4 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

The 7800X3D actually will beat out the 14900K in overall performance, on a game to game basis they do sometimes trade blows, but generally slightly in favour of the 7800X3D

The only general exceptions I know of are IPC/multithreading heavy AAA single player games at 4K. Pretty much the only scenario(s) where the 14900k will slightly edge out the 7800x3D.

[Hellowpplz]

2 minutes ago, Agall said:

The only general exceptions I know of are IPC/multithreading heavy AAA single player games at 4K. Pretty much the only scenario(s) where the 14900k will slightly edge out the 7800x3D.

minecraft

[phazeF]

4 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Oh interesting, never knew that existed

 

Any air coolers in stock?

Air Coolers:

 

DeepCool AK500 Digital CPU Air Cooler 240 W TDP 5 Copper Heatpipes

DeepCool AK620 Digital CPU Air Cooler 260 W TDP 6 Copper Heatpipes 

DeepCool ASSASSIN IV

 

AIO: 

WASE-738 - Lian Li Galahad II Trinity ARGB AIO Cooler

CORSAIR H150 RGB Liquid CPU Cooler

Cooler Master MasterLiquid 360L Core ARGB Water Cooling

Cooler Master MasterLiquid PL360 Flux CPU Cooler

MSI MAG CORELIQUID 360R V2 AIO CPU Water Cooling

Fractal Design Celsius+ S36 Dynamic X2 PWM Black 360 mm

DeepCool LS720 CPU Water Cooling 360 mm [SAME PRICE AS Corsair iCUE H150i RGB Elite]

Thermaltake TH360 V2

ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 420 [same price as some of 360s maybe even less]

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, Hellowpplz said:

minecraft

I suspect that to be true, but I haven't been able to find any data on that. As someone who's played that game for +12 years, I was surprised how little it cared for 3D v-cache. Seemingly an IPC limited game that doesn't care much for CPU cache, maybe since the chunks aren't that big that its rendering.

 

Internet says each chunk is about 60MB, so its likely very memory bandwidth dependent.

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Air Coolers:

 

DeepCool AK500 Digital CPU Air Cooler 240 W TDP 5 Copper Heatpipes

DeepCool AK620 Digital CPU Air Cooler 260 W TDP 6 Copper Heatpipes 

DeepCool ASSASSIN IV

 

AIO: 

WASE-738 - Lian Li Galahad II Trinity ARGB AIO Cooler

CORSAIR H150 RGB Liquid CPU Cooler

Cooler Master MasterLiquid 360L Core ARGB Water Cooling

Cooler Master MasterLiquid PL360 Flux CPU Cooler

MSI MAG CORELIQUID 360R V2 AIO CPU Water Cooling

Fractal Design Celsius+ S36 Dynamic X2 PWM Black 360 mm

DeepCool LS720 CPU Water Cooling 360 mm [SAME PRICE AS Corsair iCUE H150i RGB Elite]

Thermaltake TH360 V2

ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 420 [same price as some of 360s maybe even less]

AK620 is plenty for a 7800x3D.

 

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking the 7800x3D is hard to cool. Its really a 45W TDP CPU in most games, but goes up to ~120W. It'll just run hotter than what most people expect because of the 3D v-cache mod, which adds two extra heat transfer layers between the IHS and CPU die (the 3D v-cache mod itself and its copper bonding).

 

All core, the 7800x3D won't really go past 4.9GHz, even with a beefy air cooler. Its got a max boost of 5.05GHz as well, so there's little extra room without going into BCLK overclocking. Delidding would likely let it maintain 5.05GHz all core, but I'm not ballsy enough to delid my 7950x3D to find out. That has a max boost of 5.25GHz on CCD0 comparably.

[GuiltySpark_]

This is one of those topics that I find fascinating to watch people converse about. Meanwhile i'm sitting here as a human sack of bones thinking there is no way anyone can tell the difference in these single digit millisecond differences but its discussed as if its the end of the world. 

 

Very interesting. 

[phazeF]

3 minutes ago, Agall said:

AK620 is plenty for a 7800x3D.

 

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking the 7800x3D is hard to cool. Its really a 45W TDP CPU in most games, but goes up to ~120W. It'll just run hotter than what most people expect because of the 3D v-cache mod, which adds two extra heat transfer layers between the IHS and CPU die (the 3D v-cache mod itself and its copper bonding).

 

All core, the 7800x3D won't really go past 4.9GHz, even with a beefy air cooler. Its got a max boost of 5.05GHz as well, so there's little extra room without going into BCLK overclocking. Delidding would likely let it maintain 5.05GHz all core, but I'm not ballsy enough to delid my 7950x3D to find out. That has a max boost of 5.25GHz on CCD0 comparably.

Even in Egypt when it's summer? , also I was trynna get a few things that could be future proof yk? 

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Even in Egypt when it's summer? , also I was trynna get a few things that could be future proof yk? 

Yeah, you'll just have to run the fans higher if you don't have an HVAC.

 

I run an NH-D15 with the 7mm AM5 offset bracket. I've considered a few times doing a delid since its really the only way to properly 'tame' the CPU temps.

 

My PC now sits in another room, so the fans are going at 80% all the time now since I don't hear or feel it. It'll rarely red line now and even have CCD1 boost to 5.925GHz (CCD1 has an unlocked multiplier on the 7950x3D).

 

I've done a lot of testing with CCD1 disabled, aka a 7800x3D. Its a lot easier to tame comparably. If you're not concerned with overall pricing, an NH-D15 with the offset is probably best, but the AK620 is plenty.

[phazeF]

19 minutes ago, Agall said:

Yeah, you'll just have to run the fans higher if you don't have an HVAC.

 

I run an NH-D15 with the 7mm AM5 offset bracket. I've considered a few times doing a delid since its really the only way to properly 'tame' the CPU temps.

 

My PC now sits in another room, so the fans are going at 80% all the time now since I don't hear or feel it. It'll rarely red line now and even have CCD1 boost to 5.925GHz (CCD1 has an unlocked multiplier on the 7950x3D).

 

I've done a lot of testing with CCD1 disabled, aka a 7800x3D. Its a lot easier to tame comparably. If you're not concerned with overall pricing, an NH-D15 with the offset is probably best, but the AK620 is plenty.

Got what you mean yeah, appreciate you fr, also the Mobo which one should I go for? Gigabyte Aorus B650, or MSI B650 Tomahawk? or ASUS TUF B650 Gaming PLUS?

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, phazeF said:

Got what you mean yeah, appreciate you fr, also the Mobo which one should I go for? Gigabyte Aorus B650, or MSI B650 Tomahawk? or ASUS TUF B650 Gaming PLUS?

I'd stay away from Asus now a days, and I'm assuming the Aorus Elite B650?

 

They're honestly 1:1 boards, the only major difference I can spot being that the MSI board has more 3.5mm audio ports and SPIDF. If that doesn't matter to you, I'd go with the Gigabyte board. The fan header layout and M.2 heatsink design is better in my opinion.

[phazeF]

9 minutes ago, Agall said:

I'd stay away from Asus now a days, and I'm assuming the Aorus Elite B650?

 

They're honestly 1:1 boards, the only major difference I can spot being that the MSI board has more 3.5mm audio ports and SPIDF. If that doesn't matter to you, I'd go with the Gigabyte board. The fan header layout and M.2 heatsink design is better in my opinion.

Heard few ppl say stay away from Gigabyte boards as they are bad when it comes to DPC Latency.