Framework quality control and support issues

[evo_zorro]

Right, I've scanned through a few posts mentioning this company, and the phrase "not really a sponsor" is commonplace. I'm kind of hoping this is the best place to leave this information in order for it to be noticed, so here goes:

 

Somewhere in spring 2023, I pre-ordered my AMD framework 13, to replace my trusty, but tired old workhorse ThinkPad. I got a slot in Batch 3, and after an extremely long wait (November 2023) I received by new machine. I quickly assembled it, and cracked on. A few days later, an issue became apparent: random pixels would flicker, especially under increased CPU load. I tried upgrading the BIOS, upgrading my OS (Linux user), but nothing seemed to work. I created an issue with framework support, and was told to create a thread on their community pages, which I did. I provided a small video of the problem, answered questions, and went through my own diagnostic steps. While doing this, I noticed the display cable clearly was supposed to have some sticky patch to keep it in place against the hinge, but the cable had managed to get unstuck, and crept up. pushing the cable back down and routing it properly seemed to fix the issue. I shared my findings on the thread (because others had been jumping on saying they were having a similar problem). I mentioned my problem had been resolved, but the thread was not marked as such (probably because others had been reporting similar issues, and they hadn't seen an improvement).

 

Fast forward a couple of months (early February), and the problem had returned with a vengeance: not only were the flickering pixels back, it got much, much worse: most of the time the display would remain stubbornly black (the backlight would come on, no output). I would power-cycle the laptop a couple of times, tap the bottom left hinge, and fold the display back and forth until I got some output. Naturally, I left a comment to that effect on the thread, and created a new support issue, linking the thread, explaining the problem, and that a laptop without a display, though an external display could still be used, negates the benefits of a laptop. Because the issue persisted during a BIOS update, it's clearly not OS related, and therefore must be a hardware issue. Pointing towards the cable, and that even the slightest touch on the bottom of the panel would case the screen to go black, I added that it was clear to me that the display was faulty. I lastly stressed this was somewhat urgent: I rely on my laptop for work, and I need to be able to work to earn a living, so I really need to get this issue sorted ASAP.

 

The next day, I got a reply asking for a video showing the issue, whether I'd tried using an external display, etc... essentially, asking questions that I'd already answered months ago. They also asked for pictures showing the panel, motherboard, and display cable connector. I opened up the unit (making sure to use the included framework tool, thinking that would be the best way to avoid this issue being somehow blamed on anything I did wrong), took the pictures, and sent them over.

In my reply, I pointed out that I already did most of the other diagnostic steps they asked about, so I referenced the community thread once more and listed additional things I had tried.

 

I quite quickly got a response asking me to take more pictures of the BIOS (showing the serial number of my unit), and pictures from all sides with a ruler (probably to check for damage/bent chasis). I was told this was required for their review and documentation process. I quickly provided them with the pictures they needed, and said I hoped this would allow for my issue to be fixed soon (it's been 5 days since I submitted this issue to framework support for the second time at this point).

 

Later that day, I get another email, asking me to open up the unit again, removing the ram sticks, take pictures of the pins on the DIMMs, and try booting with each stick in the first slot, to see if that fixes the issue. Still eager to get this problem fixed, I resist the urge to say that, if it's a RAM issue, the fact that an external display doesn't suffer from the same problem makes no sense, and instead proceed to open up the laptop, take the pictures, remove one stick, close the unit back up, boot and confirm that the issue is not resolved. I open the laptop yet again, repeat the process with the other stick (still the issue persists), so open the laptop for a third time to put both sticks in once more. Now, did I need to open/close the unit each time? Not sure, but as I said: I'm not getting any output on the screen most of the time on boot, so I wanted to rule out any variables (like the sensor shutting down the laptop if it's opened up). Keep in mind, that I've made sure to use the included tool all this time (back in November, all the way through to now).

It's at this point that, when I last closed the unit, the included tool failed and ended up stripping one of the captive T-5 screws. I now grabbed an iFixit kit, which allowed me to close the damned thing back up.

 

And so, to add to the lengthy back and forth, I sent over the pictures of the DIMMs, said that it changed nothing. I was well fed-up at this point, so I reiterated the point I had made a several times earlier: an external display works fine, the display cable is clearly the issue, and that I just about had enough of this back and forth, each time asking me to take some more pictures. I added that there's no component outside of the motherboard and the display that I haven't yet tried to swap out, that this whole thing is taking too long, and on top of all that: because of this shoddy process I've now ended up with a stripped captive screw, and I expect them to replace that, too.

 

The response I got asked me for shipping details for the display (finally), and on the subject of the screws: I was asked if I used the framework tool, and a picture showing the stripped screw.

 

I provided the requested shipping information, a couple of pictures of the stripped screw, and confirmed that I used their tool until the screw got stripped, and I had to resort to an iFixit kit instead. I apparently asked for a replacement bottom cover (I'm checking the emails as I'm writing), but it turns out there's replacement screws available, which is fine: whatever fixes the problem. I even apologised for my tone in my last email, which was a bit heated. I went so far as to say that I understand there is a process to go through, but that it could do with some streamlining, because my experience was frustrating to say the least.

 

I got a short reply informing me that my issue was under review - no further information given, other than someone would get in touch with me soon.

 

Another day went by, and I got another email: a replacement display kit would be sent over (finally), but the stripped screw was dismissed as "Customer Induced Damage", so instead of an explanation as to what i did wrong, i was just given a link to where I could BUY new screws. Of course, there was some more personal information that they'd forgotten to ask earlier: my phone number, which I had to provide again so they could ship my display.

I sent my phone number, but pushed back against the customer induced damage bit: I don't open up my work laptop on a daily basis, just for fun. I countered that the screws were subjected to excess stress because of THEIR process being shambolic, and therefore I reject the notion that the fault for this falls squarely on me. Replacement screws are reasonably priced, but seeing as I've been dealing with a defective display for months at this point, and had to jump through hoops just to get a working laptop at the end of it, a bag of screws would come across as some semblance of an apology.

 

Another email comes in (in case you're wondering, the email thread is now 12 emails long, and spans 8 days). I'm told that the display is on the way, a link to their guide on how to replace a display is added, with the instructions to send back the broken one in the same box, the address for that will follow in yet another email. As for the screw thing: just another link to their website where I can buy a replacement set of screws. No explanation, no indication that they've even bothered to read what I said, just completely ignoring the issue.

 

It took a further 5 days for the display to arrive, I've since swapped the broken one for the replacement (surprise surprise: everything is working fine now), and it feels like that's where framework wants to leave things. I'm not. I'm absolutely disgusted. I've been dealing with a display issue for the best part of 3 months, in the process I've ended up feeling like a beta-tester for their support processes, and ended up with another issue, but they've concluded it's squarely my fault. I disagree, but they're just choosing to ignore me.

 

Now why I think it's something I'd leave here is that we all know Linus is a framework investor. LTT is also the channel that has this series "Secret Shopper" where they go through the whole experience from different vendors from ordering to after-sales support/care. Linus himself is quite vocal when certain brands/vendors provide a sub-par customer support experience. If something takes over an hour, he seems to get incredibly irate about it. I'd be happy for something to get sorted in a couple of hours if the alternative is 3 bloody months.

I am properly angry about this whole farce, and hope that maybe detailing this here could have some positive results. Specifically: An investor with significant sway and influence could be made aware, and wants to look after their investment by insisting the support process is improved upon (shouldn't be hard, this is hands down the worst experience I've ever had).

On a more selfish, petty level, I'm also hoping that putting some of this crap out there, putting them on blast, so to speak, might prompt framework to actually do the right thing, and after these months, framework provides me with that bloody screw, so I can have the laptop I bought: a new  machine, with no signs of wear and tear (which includes the screw) and a working display, because essentially, I never had that.

[Mensatisch42]

9 hours ago, evo_zorro said:

Right, I've scanned through a few posts mentioning this company, and the phrase "not really a sponsor" is commonplace. I'm kind of hoping this is the best place to leave this information in order for it to be noticed, so here goes:

 

Somewhere in spring 2023, I pre-ordered my AMD framework 13, to replace my trusty, but tired old workhorse ThinkPad. I got a slot in Batch 3, and after an extremely long wait (November 2023) I received by new machine. I quickly assembled it, and cracked on. A few days later, an issue became apparent: random pixels would flicker, especially under increased CPU load. I tried upgrading the BIOS, upgrading my OS (Linux user), but nothing seemed to work. I created an issue with framework support, and was told to create a thread on their community pages, which I did. I provided a small video of the problem, answered questions, and went through my own diagnostic steps. While doing this, I noticed the display cable clearly was supposed to have some sticky patch to keep it in place against the hinge, but the cable had managed to get unstuck, and crept up. pushing the cable back down and routing it properly seemed to fix the issue. I shared my findings on the thread (because others had been jumping on saying they were having a similar problem). I mentioned my problem had been resolved, but the thread was not marked as such (probably because others had been reporting similar issues, and they hadn't seen an improvement).

 

Fast forward a couple of months (early February), and the problem had returned with a vengeance: not only were the flickering pixels back, it got much, much worse: most of the time the display would remain stubbornly black (the backlight would come on, no output). I would power-cycle the laptop a couple of times, tap the bottom left hinge, and fold the display back and forth until I got some output. Naturally, I left a comment to that effect on the thread, and created a new support issue, linking the thread, explaining the problem, and that a laptop without a display, though an external display could still be used, negates the benefits of a laptop. Because the issue persisted during a BIOS update, it's clearly not OS related, and therefore must be a hardware issue. Pointing towards the cable, and that even the slightest touch on the bottom of the panel would case the screen to go black, I added that it was clear to me that the display was faulty. I lastly stressed this was somewhat urgent: I rely on my laptop for work, and I need to be able to work to earn a living, so I really need to get this issue sorted ASAP.

 

The next day, I got a reply asking for a video showing the issue, whether I'd tried using an external display, etc... essentially, asking questions that I'd already answered months ago. They also asked for pictures showing the panel, motherboard, and display cable connector. I opened up the unit (making sure to use the included framework tool, thinking that would be the best way to avoid this issue being somehow blamed on anything I did wrong), took the pictures, and sent them over.

In my reply, I pointed out that I already did most of the other diagnostic steps they asked about, so I referenced the community thread once more and listed additional things I had tried.

 

I quite quickly got a response asking me to take more pictures of the BIOS (showing the serial number of my unit), and pictures from all sides with a ruler (probably to check for damage/bent chasis). I was told this was required for their review and documentation process. I quickly provided them with the pictures they needed, and said I hoped this would allow for my issue to be fixed soon (it's been 5 days since I submitted this issue to framework support for the second time at this point).

 

Later that day, I get another email, asking me to open up the unit again, removing the ram sticks, take pictures of the pins on the DIMMs, and try booting with each stick in the first slot, to see if that fixes the issue. Still eager to get this problem fixed, I resist the urge to say that, if it's a RAM issue, the fact that an external display doesn't suffer from the same problem makes no sense, and instead proceed to open up the laptop, take the pictures, remove one stick, close the unit back up, boot and confirm that the issue is not resolved. I open the laptop yet again, repeat the process with the other stick (still the issue persists), so open the laptop for a third time to put both sticks in once more. Now, did I need to open/close the unit each time? Not sure, but as I said: I'm not getting any output on the screen most of the time on boot, so I wanted to rule out any variables (like the sensor shutting down the laptop if it's opened up). Keep in mind, that I've made sure to use the included tool all this time (back in November, all the way through to now).

It's at this point that, when I last closed the unit, the included tool failed and ended up stripping one of the captive T-5 screws. I now grabbed an iFixit kit, which allowed me to close the damned thing back up.

 

And so, to add to the lengthy back and forth, I sent over the pictures of the DIMMs, said that it changed nothing. I was well fed-up at this point, so I reiterated the point I had made a several times earlier: an external display works fine, the display cable is clearly the issue, and that I just about had enough of this back and forth, each time asking me to take some more pictures. I added that there's no component outside of the motherboard and the display that I haven't yet tried to swap out, that this whole thing is taking too long, and on top of all that: because of this shoddy process I've now ended up with a stripped captive screw, and I expect them to replace that, too.

 

The response I got asked me for shipping details for the display (finally), and on the subject of the screws: I was asked if I used the framework tool, and a picture showing the stripped screw.

 

I provided the requested shipping information, a couple of pictures of the stripped screw, and confirmed that I used their tool until the screw got stripped, and I had to resort to an iFixit kit instead. I apparently asked for a replacement bottom cover (I'm checking the emails as I'm writing), but it turns out there's replacement screws available, which is fine: whatever fixes the problem. I even apologised for my tone in my last email, which was a bit heated. I went so far as to say that I understand there is a process to go through, but that it could do with some streamlining, because my experience was frustrating to say the least.

 

I got a short reply informing me that my issue was under review - no further information given, other than someone would get in touch with me soon.

 

Another day went by, and I got another email: a replacement display kit would be sent over (finally), but the stripped screw was dismissed as "Customer Induced Damage", so instead of an explanation as to what i did wrong, i was just given a link to where I could BUY new screws. Of course, there was some more personal information that they'd forgotten to ask earlier: my phone number, which I had to provide again so they could ship my display.

I sent my phone number, but pushed back against the customer induced damage bit: I don't open up my work laptop on a daily basis, just for fun. I countered that the screws were subjected to excess stress because of THEIR process being shambolic, and therefore I reject the notion that the fault for this falls squarely on me. Replacement screws are reasonably priced, but seeing as I've been dealing with a defective display for months at this point, and had to jump through hoops just to get a working laptop at the end of it, a bag of screws would come across as some semblance of an apology.

 

Another email comes in (in case you're wondering, the email thread is now 12 emails long, and spans 8 days). I'm told that the display is on the way, a link to their guide on how to replace a display is added, with the instructions to send back the broken one in the same box, the address for that will follow in yet another email. As for the screw thing: just another link to their website where I can buy a replacement set of screws. No explanation, no indication that they've even bothered to read what I said, just completely ignoring the issue.

 

It took a further 5 days for the display to arrive, I've since swapped the broken one for the replacement (surprise surprise: everything is working fine now), and it feels like that's where framework wants to leave things. I'm not. I'm absolutely disgusted. I've been dealing with a display issue for the best part of 3 months, in the process I've ended up feeling like a beta-tester for their support processes, and ended up with another issue, but they've concluded it's squarely my fault. I disagree, but they're just choosing to ignore me.

 

Now why I think it's something I'd leave here is that we all know Linus is a framework investor. LTT is also the channel that has this series "Secret Shopper" where they go through the whole experience from different vendors from ordering to after-sales support/care. Linus himself is quite vocal when certain brands/vendors provide a sub-par customer support experience. If something takes over an hour, he seems to get incredibly irate about it. I'd be happy for something to get sorted in a couple of hours if the alternative is 3 bloody months.

I am properly angry about this whole farce, and hope that maybe detailing this here could have some positive results. Specifically: An investor with significant sway and influence could be made aware, and wants to look after their investment by insisting the support process is improved upon (shouldn't be hard, this is hands down the worst experience I've ever had).

On a more selfish, petty level, I'm also hoping that putting some of this crap out there, putting them on blast, so to speak, might prompt framework to actually do the right thing, and after these months, framework provides me with that bloody screw, so I can have the laptop I bought: a new  machine, with no signs of wear and tear (which includes the screw) and a working display, because essentially, I never had that.

My experience wasn't that bad but a small round up:

My framework 13 (12 gen) died on Christmas.

 

My support experience:

 

Good:

- fast responses

- quick confirmation that the Mainboard will be replaced under warranty

- helpful discord server

 

Neutral:

- language switching: my initial mail was in german. They replied in german until I got the confirmation that the Mainboard has to be replaced. After that most mails I got were in English.

I didn't mind it, but I think it might cause problems for some customers.

 

 

Bad:

- long wait time after confirmation that I'll get a replacement and shipment confirmation (03.01. - 18.01.)

 

- communication of the afore mentioned delay: I don't mind delays that much, it's annoying but sometimes things happen

The really annoying part was the communication.

I think the following things would have been helpful:

- a short heads-up that it might take a while to ship

- a ETA so that I can plan how to get through a couple of weeks without laptop. I don't need a exact date but "up to a week"/ "Up to a month" or so on would be nice.

 

 

[LogicalDrm]

@evo_zorro

@Mensatisch42

 

Your posts have been split from LMG Sponsor Complaints thread. Framework IS NOT sponsor and thus complaints made towards them are not within the scope of that thread.

 

Additionally, the thread is not a place for product reviews or troubleshooting.