Air cooling i9-14900k

[wunagy]

Hi all! I'm torn between air cooling and liquid cooling for the i9-14900k. 

 

I don't intend to OC the CPU and for the sake of simplicity and reliability I'm leaning more towards getting an air cooler. I'll be using the PC mostly for work stuff.

 

What's the best air cooler that I can put on that bad boy? NH-D15 vs Dark Rock Elite?

[RONOTHAN##]

51 minutes ago, wunagy said:

What's the best air cooler that I can put on that bad boy?

Thermalright Peerless Assassin or one of its derivatives. 

 

Realistically though, you just can't air cool a 14900K. Air coolers are limited to ~240W for what they can cool, and the 14900K will easily do 300W+ under full load. If you want to run something air cooled, stick to a 13700K as that at least has a chance of being air cooled. Otherwise, if you really need the extra performance from the E-Cores (it's not that much extra performance), then you need an AIO or custom loop to really see the uplift. 

[wunagy]

9 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Thermalright Peerless Assassin or one of its derivatives. 

 

Realistically though, you just can't air cool a 14900K. Air coolers are limited to ~240W for what they can cool, and the 14900K will easily do 300W+ under full load. If you want to run something air cooled, stick to a 13700K as that at least has a chance of being air cooled. Otherwise, if you really need the extra performance from the E-Cores (it's not that much extra performance), then you need an AIO or custom loop to really see the uplift. 

Thanks for replying! I see these air coolers are rated for up to 280-290 watts. Is that not the case?

 

Would a contact frame, good thermal paste and proper PC case cooling be enough to get 95% of the i9-14900k?

[RONOTHAN##]

9 minutes ago, wunagy said:

I see these air coolers are rated for up to 280-290 watts. Is that not the case?

Cooler TDP is a weird metric, since it also relies on how easily the CPU transfers heat out of the silicon and a few other factors. In practice these air coolers will have issues cooling over ~250W on 13th gen CPUs. 

 

10 minutes ago, wunagy said:

Would a contact frame, good thermal paste and proper PC case cooling be enough to get 95% of the i9-14900k?

Not really. The contact frames don't help that much when on air coolers due to air coolers tending to have more convex cold plates that better match to the CPU's curve, and the thermal paste included is already really good paste that you're not going to get much better from. 

 

Besides, the 13700K is already 90% of the 14900K, and the 14700K exists and is just barely too hot to air cool. If you're dead set on something better than the 13700K and don't want an AIO, go 14700K instead. 

[wunagy]

Thanks for the info! I might have to go for an AIO/custom loop in that case. 

 

Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions but I'll probably get i9-14900k with RTX 4080. Would an AIO for the CPU do the trick? Any recommendations?

 

Again I don't want to OC either but building a custom loop sounds complicated to me. Does the 4080 need liquid cooling or would the built in cooler do the trick provided I won't OC it.

[RevGAM]

6 hours ago, wunagy said:

Thanks for replying! I see these air coolers are rated for up to 280-290 watts. Is that not the case?

Using TDP in watts is like measuring light released by a bulb using watts. It's just dumb.  Lumens tell you light output, and temperature tells you... thermal yield and dissipation.  

 

Only if all manufacturers did everything in a very particular way would TDP actually mean much, and that would stifle innovation and rapid improvement. With the huge range of diversity in processors and coolers, the wattage listed means nothing, especially when you add in the variability of heat produced by each user. 

6 hours ago, wunagy said:

Would a contact frame, good thermal paste and proper PC case cooling be enough to get 95% of the i9-14900k?

Theoretically, it might help but you'd have to research to make sure to maximize the results. The TR Frost Spirit 140 is a bit better than the PA120, but the PS120 and FC140 are also a bit better, so whichever is cheapest... there are other options depending on where you live but, realistically,  air coolers are not going to get it to 95% unless you have a mini-A/C for the intake.

 

The top AIOs can probably drive down the temp a few degrees, especially if you have A/C. DC Mystique is a bit better than DC LS/LT720, and there are several others that are all within 3 degrees or so of each other. The margins just aren't that great unless you buy a water cooler that isn't powerful, and then put

Powerful fans on it,  just like STS did with the Arctic LF3 by adding 3 more P140s. The LF3's weakness is that they didn't put on a much stronger pump and fans, or else it would've put every other AIO to shame.  Maybe they felt bad for the other companies...  

4 hours ago, wunagy said:

Again I don't want to OC either but building a custom loop sounds complicated to me.

It can be complicated if you have no relevant experience, especially if you want to make it look beautiful. It is more likely to be able to tame your CPU than an AIO, though. You could compromise by buying an AIO and modifying it to improve its performance (e.g. add another rad, insert a flow meter and reservoir).

[wunagy]

15 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Using TDP in watts is like measuring light released by a bulb using watts. It's just dumb.  Lumens tell you light output, and temperature tells you... thermal yield and dissipation.  

 

Only if all manufacturers did everything in a very particular way would TDP actually mean much, and that would stifle innovation and rapid improvement. With the huge range of diversity in processors and coolers, the wattage listed means nothing, especially when you add in the variability of heat produced by each user. 

Theoretically, it might help but you'd have to research to make sure to maximize the results. The TR Frost Spirit 140 is a bit better than the PA120, but the PS120 and FC140 are also a bit better, so whichever is cheapest... there are other options depending on where you live but, realistically,  air coolers are not going to get it to 95% unless you have a mini-A/C for the intake.

 

The top AIOs can probably drive down the temp a few degrees, especially if you have A/C. DC Mystique is a bit better than DC LS/LT720, and there are several others that are all within 3 degrees or so of each other. The margins just aren't that great unless you buy a water cooler that isn't powerful, and then put

Powerful fans on it,  just like STS did with the Arctic LF3 by adding 3 more P140s. The LF3's weakness is that they didn't put on a much stronger pump and fans, or else it would've put every other AIO to shame.  Maybe they felt bad for the other companies...  

It can be complicated if you have no relevant experience, especially if you want to make it look beautiful. It is more likely to be able to tame your CPU than an AIO, though. You could compromise by buying an AIO and modifying it to improve its performance (e.g. add another rad, insert a flow meter and reservoir).

Thanks for your comprehensive answer!

 

I've decided on getting the Corsair 7000D Airflow PC case. From what I see it can comfortably fit the LF3 420. You say the pump/fans are no great. Would replacing them with NF-A14 fans be an improvement over stock? Would that be then enough to push the i9-14900k to it's limits?

[TatamiMatt]

1 hour ago, wunagy said:

Thanks for your comprehensive answer!

 

I've decided on getting the Corsair 7000D Airflow PC case. From what I see it can comfortably fit the LF3 420. You say the pump/fans are no great. Would replacing them with NF-A14 fans be an improvement over stock? Would that be then enough to push the i9-14900k to it's limits?

NF-A14s are also just not great, theyre good, but not great, itd be an improvement, but not a major one

[RevGAM]

2 hours ago, wunagy said:

Thanks for your comprehensive answer!

 

I've decided on getting the Corsair 7000D Airflow PC case. From what I see it can comfortably fit the LF3 420. You say the pump/fans are no great. Would replacing them with NF-A14 fans be an improvement over stock? Would that be then enough to push the i9-14900k to it's limits?

Good question. There's nothing you can do about the pump short of chopping the tubes and installing a different pump, which would kinda defeat the purpose of buying the LF3 when you could buy something even cheaper (like a Thermalright, Sama, Draecena, AMChoice, etc.) for even less and modding that.
 

You could do what STS did, or you could buy any powerful fan and use them, such as Iceberg Thermal IceGale Xtra, Phanteks T30, Cooljag Everflow R121232BUAF, aaawave AF12025-4P-B, Alphacool Core 120 PWM 24844, bgears b-PWM120 Blue BG01213, Delta 12038 (PFC1212DE-6A50) (super overkill at 35 mmAq), or any of a bunch of others.

 

eh, sorry, I forgot that you want the 420, so you'd need to look at 140mm fans with high static pressure. 

Edited March 5 by RevGAM
Added note about fan size

[TatamiMatt]

1 hour ago, wunagy said:

Thanks for your comprehensive answer!

 

I've decided on getting the Corsair 7000D Airflow PC case. From what I see it can comfortably fit the LF3 420. You say the pump/fans are no great. Would replacing them with NF-A14 fans be an improvement over stock? Would that be then enough to push the i9-14900k to it's limits?

 

23 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

You could do what STS did, or you could buy any powerful fan and use them, such as...Phanteks T30...

You could run with the setup it has currently and wait for Phanteks to release the 140mm version of the T30s (which might be a while)

[RevGAM]

 

57 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

 

You could run with the setup it has currently and wait for Phanteks to release the 140mm version of the T30s (which might be a while)

Thanks...I forgot they want the 420.

[TatamiMatt]

1 minute ago, RevGAM said:

 

Thanks...I forgot they want the 420.

Icegale do their fans, including their extra in 140mm too @wunagy

 

Also i believe Arctic are working on P14 Max's too

[RevGAM]

Just now, TatamiMatt said:

Icegale do their fans, including their extra in 140mm too @wunagy

 

Also i believe Arctic are working on P14 Max's too

Yes, some of the ones I listed are also available in 140, but I don't know their SP.

[OhioYJ]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:21 PM, wunagy said:

I don't intend to OC the CPU and for the sake of simplicity and reliability I'm leaning more towards getting an air cooler. I'll be using the PC mostly for work stuff.

What is work stuff? I've got a NH-D15 on a 12900k and a 13900k right now.  The 12900k I undervolted a bit (more to tinker, not because it ran any hotter). Honestly the 13900k I haven't worried about at all, and just let it go. It gets warm when I really load it down say extended video encodes or synthetic loads, but for most tasks it's no issue obviously. Even gaming it's nice and cool.

 

I'm not saying you likely couldn't run cooler with an AIO, just saying if you want to run air cooling you likely could if you wanted to.

[RevGAM]

38 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

What is work stuff? I've got a NH-D15 on a 12900k and a 13900k right now.  The 12900k I undervolted a bit (more to tinker, not because it ran any hotter). Honestly the 13900k I haven't worried about at all, and just let it go. It gets warm when I really load it down say extended video encodes or synthetic loads, but for most tasks it's no issue obviously. Even gaming it's nice and cool.

 

I'm not saying you likely couldn't run cooler with an AIO, just saying if you want to run air cooling you likely could if you wanted to.

When you benchmark them, how do their scores rank? My 12700k ranks below average and doesn't get hot. Even undervolting doesn't give me any real improvement, while OCing plus OVing results in worse performance and more heat. Really, I cannot get more performance out of it, so I must've lost the silicon lottery. 

[wunagy]

On 3/5/2024 at 12:37 PM, OhioYJ said:

What is work stuff? I've got a NH-D15 on a 12900k and a 13900k right now.  The 12900k I undervolted a bit (more to tinker, not because it ran any hotter). Honestly the 13900k I haven't worried about at all, and just let it go. It gets warm when I really load it down say extended video encodes or synthetic loads, but for most tasks it's no issue obviously. Even gaming it's nice and cool.

 

I'm not saying you likely couldn't run cooler with an AIO, just saying if you want to run air cooling you likely could if you wanted to.

I work in software development. Most of my side gigs are also digital - be it side hustles or hobbies. To be frank, I probably don't need all that power. But I'm finally at a point in my life where I can go all out on building a PC without necessarily worrying about a budget. The kid in me says why not?  Anyway, I'll get the stock LF3 420 and see how it goes. If necessary I'll upgrade the fans later.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to help!

 

Could I hijack this threat to ask for fan placement on the PC case? The Corsair 7000D Airflow can accommodate:

• 3x140mm exhaust fans on top (for the LF3 420 AIO radiator)
• 1x140mm exhaust on the back
• 4x120mm on the side (intake?)
• 3x140 or 4x120 on the front (intake?)

Where I'm located there's not that much choice when it comes to fans. Out of all the aforementioned fans I can find the Alphacool Core 120/140, IceGale Xtra 120/140 and all the more popular brands - noctua, be quiet, nzxt, arctic etc.

[RevGAM]

9 hours ago, wunagy said:

I work in software development. Most of my side gigs are also digital - be it side hustles or hobbies. To be frank, I probably don't need all that power. But I'm finally at a point in my life where I can go all out on building a PC without necessarily worrying about a budget. The kid in me says why not?  Anyway, I'll get the stock LF3 420 and see how it goes. If necessary I'll upgrade the fans later.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to help!

 

Could I hijack this threat to ask for fan placement on the PC case? The Corsair 7000D Airflow can accommodate:

• 3x140mm exhaust fans on top (for the LF3 420 AIO radiator)
• 1x140mm exhaust on the back
• 4x120mm on the side (intake?)
• 3x140 or 4x120 on the front (intake?)

Where I'm located there's not that much choice when it comes to fans. Out of all the aforementioned fans I can find the Alphacool Core 120/140, IceGale Xtra 120/140 and all the more popular brands - noctua, be quiet, nzxt, arctic etc.

Where are you going to mount the AIO?

[wunagy]

2 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Where are you going to mount the AIO?

From what I can tell there's enough space for for 420mm radiator at the top of the case.

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, wunagy said:

From what I can tell there's enough space for for 420mm radiator at the top of the case.

Front, side and top are all possible.

Personally, I'd suggest putting it on the front or side to get cooler air dissipating the CPU heat, but every position has its pros and cons. If you go with the top, put 2-3 140s on the front (if 2, in the lower 2 spots) and one on the back. You can play around with the configuration, of course, to see what's best.

[wunagy]

On 3/7/2024 at 1:48 AM, RevGAM said:

Front, side and top are all possible.

Personally, I'd suggest putting it on the front or side to get cooler air dissipating the CPU heat, but every position has its pros and cons. If you go with the top, put 2-3 140s on the front (if 2, in the lower 2 spots) and one on the back. You can play around with the configuration, of course, to see what's best.

Let's assume I put it on top. If the front and side slots are all filled with intake fans (either 8x120 or 4x120 & 3x140) would that be too much?

[TatamiMatt]

4 minutes ago, wunagy said:

Let's assume I put it on top. If the front and side slots are all filled with intake fans (either 8x120 or 4x120 & 3x140) would that be too much?

Id say that shouldnt be an issue especially if you want to do a push pull on the radiator and 140mm exhaust on rear. It wont balance the pressure, you will have very strong positive pressure still but it will help to

 

But regardless it should be fine

[RevGAM]

4 hours ago, wunagy said:

Let's assume I put it on top. If the front and side slots are all filled with intake fans (either 8x120 or 4x120 & 3x140) would that be too much?

So if you have it on exhaust, that means the case air will be cooling the rad, which will result in higher CPU temperatures than if it were on intake, especially if you don't have A/C in the summer, or your case has become very hot. Thus, it would be even more important to use more fans but I cannot predict exactly how many fans you're going to need. As Matt said, you'll want the rear fan on exhaust. Since that means 3 fans with a barrier and one with a minor barrier, you can easily exceed the negative pressure they produce with 4 fans on intake that are of equal (or greater) pressure and airflow compared to the exhaust fans without barriers. Again, I'd suggest trying it at least on the front or side as well as on top just to see what's going to give you the most desirable (for you, keeping in mind that the AIO is there for your CPU, not your GC) results.