First PC build for 10 years - how things have changed!

[rsfozworth]

Background

 

Hello LTT community.  Firstly thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy post!

 

I am looking to upgrade my current system following intermittent failure to boot of my current system, which is probably a sign that the motherboard (ASUS Z97) is on its way out (my previous MSI board did something similar on it’s way out).  However I have also been thinking of upgrading my system following a recent monitor acquisition (1440p Ultrawide).  My current system is a rather dated consisting of a i7-4790k and an RTX 580.

 

I don’t keep up to date with latest PC building news (sorry!). Doing some research I have been surprised by the price of components - I know there is inflation around but mid priced components seem to be the same price as top end stuff a few years ago!  I do like to have some flexibility with potential future upgrades, so was leaning towards the AMD AM5 platform, as I understand this is new and will be supported going forward, though I am also happy to consider intel, especially if they now use the same socket allowing for a potential upgrade at some point in the future. 

 

I aim to reuse my current parts as much as possible:

- 750W PSU

- Corsair AIO (think I can use a conversion kit for my ancient but reliable aio like this one for new AMD https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334393747253) 

- Wifi expansion card (https://www.gigabyte.com/uk/Motherboard/GC-WBAX200-rev-10#kf). Therefore I don’t need wifi support on the motherboard 

- SSD. I have an existing Crucial NVME M.2 SSD (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B089DNM8LR/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item).

- Tower Case. Can fit a ATX motherboard and plenty of space for long multi-slot graphics cards.

 

Therefore I am looking to source new:

- Motherboard

- CPU

- GPU

- RAM

I could keep using my RTX 580 if new graphics cards or price drops around the corner, but my framerates have been suffering since the 1440p upgrade!

 

I plan to purchase over the next few weeks to assemble the backend of w/c 26 Feb.

 

Build Preferences 

- I am open to using used parts, but would prefer new - as the warranty gives me more confidence in reliablibilty.

- Lowish noise is important to me, especially when working

- I would prefer an ATX form factor motherboard for flexibility / additional slots in the future, though mATX would be fine if it had enough expansion.

- Would also want plenty of RAM as I typically have a lot of windows/programmes open when doing productivity tasks (minimum 32GB).

 

Budget & Location

UK  / Scotland.  £800

 

Use

- Productivity (including data visualisation and working with python / SQL large datasets).

- Gaming.  Anno 1800 / Total War (others but these are probably the most demanding)

- Photo-editing

 

Monitors

Recently purchased 3440x1440 Ultrawide (144hz)

Secondary 16:9 1080p monitor

 

Peripherals

- I may need a new mouse as my Corsair M65 is on its way out (left mouse click). Please provide any recommendations for a big handed oaf like me! This would outwith my budget as I probably will wait a month or 2 to purchase.

- I have an existing Windows 10 license installed on my SSD.  I probably need a new version as I suspect the motherboard/CPU replacement would be considered a major change.

 

Why are you upgrading?

See the background section!

 

Thanks for your help!

[Why_Me]

Add a graphics card.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor  (£129.68 @ Amazon UK) 
CPU Cooler: *Deepcool AG400 75.89 CFM CPU Cooler  (£22.99 @ AWD-IT) 
Motherboard: *MSI PRO B760-P DDR4 II ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  (£119.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Memory: *TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory  (£63.98 @ Overclockers.co.uk) 
Total: £336.64
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-02-18 21:53 GMT+0000

[leclod]

First, I won't believe your motherboard is dying until I see it. Reinstall a clean windows 10, maybe do some dusting, and it should be like new.

I'd forget AIO, cool with Air. Air coolers have gotten good. Like a thermal assassin for example, the current value champ.

AM5 is a good bet though.

Here, most people would recommend a new psu after 10 years (and you might miss connectors, do you have the 24pin connector ?).

 

 

 

Edited February 18 by leclod

[rsfozworth]

5 minutes ago, leclod said:

First, I won't believe your motherboard is dying until I see it. Reinstall a clean windows 10, maybe do some dusting, and it will be like new.

Forget AIO, cool with Air. Air coolers have gotten good. Like a thermal assassin for example, the current value champ.

AM5 is a good bet though.

Here, most people would recommend a new psu after 10 years.

 

 

 

Thanks for your help. 

 

- I did actually think the same and resinstalled windows a few weeks back but still getting the same issue.  During boot the status indicator LEDs hang up at one of two points consistently (though not always). It might be the motherboard or it could be the RAM based on the LED indicator lights.

- The AIO I have is fairly quiet especially when I upgraded the corsair fans a couple of years ago, but will definitely have a look at the newer air coolers

- The PSU is actually newer replaced in ~2019 with a Corsair 750W Platinum unit which hopefully should be good for a few more years yet!

[rsfozworth]

18 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

Add a graphics card.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor  (£129.68 @ Amazon UK) 
CPU Cooler: *Deepcool AG400 75.89 CFM CPU Cooler  (£22.99 @ AWD-IT) 
Motherboard: *MSI PRO B760-P DDR4 II ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  (£119.99 @ Amazon UK) 
Memory: *TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory  (£63.98 @ Overclockers.co.uk) 
Total: £336.64
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-02-18 21:53 GMT+0000

Thanks.  I was looking at the RX 7600XT. Seems to be better value than the Nvidia equivalent, but maybe overkill for my application.  ANy advise on 2nd hand or used cards to look for?

 

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/gigabyte-radeon-rx-7600-xt-gaming-oc-16gb-gddr6-graphics-card.html?wgu=13527_206719_17082945260912_55c1103fec&wgexpiry=1739830526&source=webgains&siteid=206719

[Why_Me]

12 minutes ago, rsfozworth said:

Thanks.  I was looking at the RX 7600XT. Seems to be better value than the Nvidia equivalent, but maybe overkill for my application.  ANy advise on 2nd hand or used cards to look for?

 

https://www.awd-it.co.uk/gigabyte-radeon-rx-7600-xt-gaming-oc-16gb-gddr6-graphics-card.html?wgu=13527_206719_17082945260912_55c1103fec&wgexpiry=1739830526&source=webgains&siteid=206719

I don't know much about the 2nd hand market tbh but this poster does @Somerandomtechyboi 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

2 hours ago, Why_Me said:

I don't know much about the 2nd hand market tbh but this poster does @Somerandomtechyboi 

I have been summoned =)

 

4 hours ago, rsfozworth said:

Therefore I am looking to source new:

- Motherboard

- CPU

- GPU

- RAM

I could keep using my RTX 580 if new graphics cards or price drops around the corner, but my framerates have been suffering since the 1440p upgrade!

Its alot cheaper to buy lots of ddr4 and you wont have any issues trying to go above 96gb of ram cause ddr5 quad stick quad rank is complete garbage atm and you may be stuck to <5000 ddr5 which is abysmally slow, also 64gb of ddr4 is like 100£ whereas decent speed ddr5 is more like 200£

 

And why does bro have a secret amd nvidia collab rtx 580?

 

4 hours ago, rsfozworth said:

- Productivity (including data visualisation and working with python / SQL large datasets).

Im curious if this may benifit from an x3d cpu cause gaming definitely benifits from x3d and by quite alot so if the same is true here an x3d cpu might be prefferable

 

 

Theres alot of different possible builds ranging from used am4 with a used 5900x/5950x/5800x3d to new am5 with a 7600/7800x3d and a 1700 build with a z690/790 + 12600k(f)

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/VHZybK

Heres an am5 combo

 

7900 is swappable with the 7800x3d

 

Can cut 20£ on the ram and get tforce classic 5600c46 but youll have to manually tune them to 6000c28-32 (lots of plug and play oc profiles available), basically with the 6000c34 you are just paying for the xmp since both rams should be hynix a die based and capable of 10000+ given an imc that can handle those speeds like the g apus

 

Hdv is stupid overbuilt with 14 usba (6 rear 8 internal) + 2 usbc (1 rear 1 internal), vrms capable of handling an oced 7950x, and 10000+ ddr5 capability

 

That 580 should be worth 40-50£ and with 200£ you may be able to get a used 6700xt or even a 6800 if you get real lucky and do abit of haggling

[Omon_Ra]

6 hours ago, rsfozworth said:

I am looking to upgrade my current system following intermittent failure to boot of my current system, which is probably a sign that the motherboard (ASUS Z97) is on its way out (my previous MSI board did something similar on it’s way out).  However I have also been thinking of upgrading my system following a recent monitor acquisition (1440p Ultrawide).  My current system is a rather dated consisting of a i7-4790k and an RTX 580.

Just some thoughts on this: I am experiencing similar failure to boot with an Asus x99 board with an m.2 drive. Granted, you're on z97 and I am on x99, but since those boards came out right when m.2 was emerging, and I'm assuming there hasn't been a new BIOS for your mobo for well over 5 years like my x99-Deluxe...seems like it could be an issue with m.2 and the early boards. Mine kept getting stuck in either POST code 70 (PCH DXE Initialization) or A2 (IDE Detect) which seems to me that something with the PCIe/m.2 is getting 'stuck' (70) or once the BIOS is trying to find a boot drive, it can't (A2). Not sure if your mobo has the debug codes or not, but just a thought. I got mine to come back after taking it out of the case, removing the m.2 drives, booting straight into BIOS, reinstalling the newerest BIOS firmware, and clearing the CMOS. Then I reinstalled the m.2 and it booted up seemingly fine. Still left me not feeling confident in the rig for now, so I also ended up building a new system... Going to turn the x99 PC into a home server and probably will just run it off of SATA SSD's to avoid any m.2 woes.

[SansVarnic]

You only think its dated. I have a I7-4790K with a GTX1080  and run Star Citizen on it with 3 1440 monitors.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Sansvarnic/saved/q9vG3C

 

But yeah I under your thought process though.

[rsfozworth]

7 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

And why does bro have a secret amd nvidia collab rtx 580?

Special UK exclusive . 

 

Thanks for the information - I'll take a detailed look later.

[rsfozworth]

4 hours ago, Omon_Ra said:

Just some thoughts on this: I am experiencing similar failure to boot with an Asus x99 board with an m.2 drive. Granted, you're on z97 and I am on x99, but since those boards came out right when m.2 was emerging, and I'm assuming there hasn't been a new BIOS for your mobo for well over 5 years like my x99-Deluxe...seems like it could be an issue with m.2 and the early boards. Mine kept getting stuck in either POST code 70 (PCH DXE Initialization) or A2 (IDE Detect) which seems to me that something with the PCIe/m.2 is getting 'stuck' (70) or once the BIOS is trying to find a boot drive, it can't (A2). Not sure if your mobo has the debug codes or not, but just a thought. I got mine to come back after taking it out of the case, removing the m.2 drives, booting straight into BIOS, reinstalling the newerest BIOS firmware, and clearing the CMOS. Then I reinstalled the m.2 and it booted up seemingly fine. Still left me not feeling confident in the rig for now, so I also ended up building a new system... Going to turn the x99 PC into a home server and probably will just run it off of SATA SSD's to avoid any m.2 woes.

You might be right.  The M.2 is relatively recent addition (Feb last year). I might just install Windows on my other 2.5" SATA SDD, change the boot order and see if that helps. Probably need to get another drive now before I reformat it!

 

The board never liked the XMP profile on the RAM, which is why I am lead to believe it could be a RAM thing (4 sticks of Corsair CMY16GX3M2A1600C9R Vengeance Pro Series 8GB) but that could be my hindsight bias on it being a motherboard/RAM issue!

[Somerandomtechyboi]

31 minutes ago, rsfozworth said:

The board never liked the XMP profile on the RAM, which is why I am lead to believe it could be a RAM thing (4 sticks of Corsair CMY16GX3M2A1600C9R Vengeance Pro Series 8GB) but that could be my hindsight bias on it being a motherboard/RAM issue!

Send thaiphoon burner screenshots for all 4 sticks as you may be mixing ram ic manufacturers like hynix and samsung or something like that and theyre pretty different ics with hynix capable of 3000+ whilst samsungs being garbage and topping out at 2400 for their 4gbit ics

 

32gb is pretty high density ddr3 so even with manual tuning i wouldnt really expect it to run >2400 mainly due to mobo and/or imc limit since its a quad stick quad rank config and haswell imc is known for 3600+ ddr3

[rsfozworth]

7 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Send thaiphoon burner screenshots for all 4 sticks as you may be mixing ram ic manufacturers like hynix and samsung or something like that and theyre pretty different ics with hynix capable of 3000+ whilst samsungs being garbage and topping out at 2400 for their 4gbit ics

 

32gb is pretty high density ddr3 so even with manual tuning i wouldnt really expect it to run >2400 mainly due to mobo and/or imc limit since its a quad stick quad rank config and haswell imc is known for 3600+ ddr3

Thanks.  I think the RAM runs at 1333MHz, with the XMP profile to 1600MHz. The 2 pairs of sticks were bought independently so could be that they aren't fully matched across the 4 sticks. Each pair of sticks across each memory channel are from the same kit so should be matched (if that makes a difference!).

 

This is the link to the memory spec. Sorry couldn't see a user called ThaiPhoon.

https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/p/memory/cmy16gx3m2a1600c9/vengeancea-pro-series-a-16gb-2-x-8gb-ddr3-dram-1600mhz-c9-memory-kit-cmy16gx3m2a1600c9#tab-techspecs

 

Away from home (working ) at the moment so can't get BIOS shots.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, rsfozworth said:

This is the link to the memory spec. Sorry couldn't see a user called ThaiPhoon.

I meant the program thaiphoon burner

Just download and open it, once you do click the read button and it should show you 4 smbus # whatever number but thats basically all your ram slots, click on one and itll give you data on that particular dimm on that particular slot, just screenshot that and then do that 4 times for all 4 sticks of ram

 

~2400 is about what id expect a quad stick quad rank config can do on haswell, also 1600mhz xmp is quite the ripoff especially considering how easy it is to manually tune ddr3 even high speed 3000+ =p  but oh well ram oc info back then was quite the joke (not properly identifying die revisions so nonsense like samsung hch9 even though that could be whatever samsung die, idiots arbitrarily limiting vdimm even though imc is not affected by it, conservative expectations so noone really bothered pushing their ocs past slow 2400, etc.)

[rsfozworth]

On 2/19/2024 at 6:57 PM, Somerandomtechyboi said:

I meant the program thaiphoon burner

Just download and open it, once you do click the read button and it should show you 4 smbus # whatever number but thats basically all your ram slots, click on one and itll give you data on that particular dimm on that particular slot, just screenshot that and then do that 4 times for all 4 sticks of ram

 

~2400 is about what id expect a quad stick quad rank config can do on haswell, also 1600mhz xmp is quite the ripoff especially considering how easy it is to manually tune ddr3 even high speed 3000+ =p  but oh well ram oc info back then was quite the joke (not properly identifying die revisions so nonsense like samsung hch9 even though that could be whatever samsung die, idiots arbitrarily limiting vdimm even though imc is not affected by it, conservative expectations so noone really bothered pushing their ocs past slow 2400, etc.)

Thanks @Somerandomtechyboi. Unfortunately I could not get that software to work.  Here are some snaps from the BIOS. Not sure if that helps! Thanks

[rsfozworth]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:18 AM, Somerandomtechyboi said:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/VHZybK

Heres an am5 combo

 

7900 is swappable with the 7800x3d

 

Can cut 20£ on the ram and get tforce classic 5600c46 but youll have to manually tune them to 6000c28-32 (lots of plug and play oc profiles available), basically with the 6000c34 you are just paying for the xmp since both rams should be hynix a die based and capable of 10000+ given an imc that can handle those speeds like the g apus

Thanks for the suggestions. Are there other RAM suggestions as that brand doesn't seem to be available here, and the Amazon seller is overseas so there will be import duty and taxes to pay   (plus an age to arrive!)