Tom's Hardware tests 3 Linux distros and they all beat Windows in gaming performance.

[MarkPol88]

I can't play some games outright (anticheat or fu**ing launchers)

I can't play games using my sound system.

I can't play games from XBOX Game Pass natively (pleaseee, do not bring up streaming...)

Those are just from the top of my head reasons why I do not think it is optimal.

 

And believe me, I would love to jump to Linux but right now it is not possible in my use case.

[tikker]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, CosmicEmotion said:

I don't understand your points. Going to the App Store and searching for "linux" is something people can't do? This is the "enthusiasm" level of engagment youu're referring to?

I'm not sure what you mean. You don't install linux by going to the app store.

On 12/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, CosmicEmotion said:

The average Joe will never look into Linux anyway, unless it comes preinistalled with their system. The Steam Deck itself is proof enough that Linux is more than ready to be consumed by the mainstream and the future can only be brighter. And 5% more FPS is important to anyone. People can pay for a new GPU for this 5-10 % difference.

Buying a new GPU is a much easier task than installing a foreign OS. And that aside, even upgrading and buying your own GPU is already enthusiast level. I think you overestimate the interest and knowledge of the average person in this stuff.  People do pay for a 5-10% difference, true, but again just for the enthusiasts that care or have their personal standards for what is a playable experience. If you look at the Steam hardware survey you see that the bulk of GPUs is made up of 50, 60 and some 70 series cards for Nvidia, for example, and older cards. Now I can imagine there will be people among that who absolutely do want to squeeze extra FPS out of those cards by switching to linux, but I'm willing to bet a great deal of those are again the average gamer who considers such a card's performance just fine.

 

I am not arguing that linux gaming isn't ready for mainstream consumption. It has made great strides and I agree that Steam Deck is a great showcase of its capabilities.

On 12/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, CosmicEmotion said:

Linus's challenge was massively debunked by the Steam Deck. I don't think there's much more to add to that.

Linus' challenge was quite different from Steam Deck. The Steam Deck is quite a user-friendly experience. I don't think the average gamer is buying it because it runs linux, but more becaues it's a great handheld gaming device. What Linus was testing is "the community says linux is so easy and amazing, let's see what happens if I go in blind". Someone who doesn't care about linux at all can use the Steam Deck to game just fine. They don't have to worry about installing linux in place of or alongside their windows installation, or whether they need to pick Pop OS or Arch or Nobara. They get a ready-to-go solution.

On 12/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, CosmicEmotion said:

It's your choice to use what OS you like because you may be bored or for whatever reason that may make sense to you. That doesn't mean that Linux is not the optimal system for gaming. Because it is, as long as you dont' play the 20 games that don't work on it.

Two out of the three tested linux distros losing to Windows in the 1% lows disproves such a blanket statement. @MarkPol88 gives another example of spatial audio being problematic. Someone also isn't bored because they don't want to learn linux. When you hire someone to maintain or fix aspects of say your car or house does that mean you are just too bored to learn how to do it yourself? Or does having that skill just not line up with your personal interest.

 

You can't say it is simply the best or optimal and then put on the condition that you shouldn't try the things that don't work or aren't optimal. That is ignoring what you take as "the best". From this thread it sounds like you've based that on a linux distro reaching the highest FPS. That is a completley fair criterion, but so is a more stable experience of better 1% lows, or games with anticheat engines working.

3 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

I still don't understand how this doesn't make Linux optimal for gaming though.

Because optimal implies it is the best you can get given some constraints. The problem is that those constraints will vary depending on your needs or preferences. The best platform for gaming is the one that offers everything. If features are missing then it is not the best. If Windows offers spatial audio, but Arch offers higher FPS then neither is blanket optimal because one give higher peak performance but the other has a certain feature.

[CosmicEmotion]

3 hours ago, MarkPol88 said:

I can't play some games outright (anticheat or fu**ing launchers)

I can't play games using my sound system.

I can't play games from XBOX Game Pass natively (pleaseee, do not bring up streaming...)

Those are just from the top of my head reasons why I do not think it is optimal.

 

And believe me, I would love to jump to Linux but right now it is not possible in my use case.

 

Ok, you specifically think that it's not there yet. That is not true though for the majority of people, especially those not playing specific FPS games with anticheat that is not supported on Linux.

 

 

[MarkPol88]

Once again - now it is not "best" or "optimal". Now it is good for majority, with an asterisk that they do not play certain games.

I give up...

[Chunchunmaru_]

I think that's good, but a correct comparison would be using DXVK/VKD3D even on Windows, but thats not always possible without breaking the desktop.

Neverthless, AMD is doing a great job in the linux graphics ecosystem speaking of kernel drivers, vulkan implementation, and the support overall so I won't be surprised on the same machine to perform better.
At least on a full AMD build

Still lacking on some nitpick things like eGPUs

[igormp]

On 12/4/2023 at 5:10 PM, CosmicEmotion said:

 

Ok, you specifically think that it's not there yet. That is not true though for the majority of people, especially those not playing specific FPS games with anticheat that is not supported on Linux.

 

 

As a full time linux user (and kernel contributor), it IS true for the majority of people. I wouldn't recommend linux to any casual gamer that only cares about clicking "play" and that's it.

I can manage to get stuff working, but I wouldn't make a layman to go through the hoops that sometimes are needed to get stuff to run.

 

Tbh, posts like these do no good to linux, only sound like a fanboy trying to start a flamewar saying that system X is better than Y and make other people dislike the idea.

[CosmicEmotion]

2 hours ago, igormp said:

As a full time linux user (and kernel contributor), it IS true for the majority of people. I wouldn't recommend linux to any casual gamer that only cares about clicking "play" and that's it.

I can manage to get stuff working, but I wouldn't make a layman to go through the hoops that sometimes are needed to get stuff to run.

 

Tbh, posts like these do no good to linux, only sound like a fanboy trying to start a flamewar saying that system X is better than Y and make other people dislike the idea.

 

The Steam Deck is proof that for a large amount of people Linux gaming is just fine. For the ones using Linux for gaming on PC, where more games than the Deck  are compatible, it's more than fine. You may be contributing to the kernel but I've been testing games on Linux vs Windows for 3 years now. With an AMD machine, Linux is just better, end of story.

 

This loser mentality of old Linux users that gaming is something that is not truly a thing on their OS has to go away, cause it is and it's here to stay. Linux does it and does it better for cheaper.

[MarkPol88]

Wait a minute - is it true that you can't get 4K 120Hz with 4:4:4 chroma on Linux if you use HDMI?

Also you can't undervolt AMD 7000 series cards and change fan profile?

 

If the answer to above is yes - then it is even worse than I suspected, maybe someone have some experience in the matter?

I will have some free time over Christmas and wanted to try (again) some Linux distros but I guess it would be a waste of time.

 

(and please do not bring up DisplayPort - my monitor is a TV)

[igormp]

Just now, MarkPol88 said:

Wait a minute - is it true that you can't get 4K 120Hz with 4:4:4 chroma on Linux if you use HDMI?

 

Totally can, works just fine with my 3090 (currently only doing 4k60 due to limitations in my KVM switch).

1 minute ago, MarkPol88 said:

(and please do not bring up DisplayPort - my monitor is a TV)

So is mine, LG's 42C2

 

Can't comment on the AMD part since I'm not an AMD user, I know that things like tuxclocker support this on the 6000 series, but idk about 7000.

[MarkPol88]

9 minutes ago, igormp said:

Totally can, works just fine with my 3090

I did not write it in my post but the problem exist on AMD platform - they couldn't talk it out with HDMI forum apparently.

[CosmicEmotion]

20 hours ago, MarkPol88 said:

Wait a minute - is it true that you can't get 4K 120Hz with 4:4:4 chroma on Linux if you use HDMI?

Also you can't undervolt AMD 7000 series cards and change fan profile?

 

If the answer to above is yes - then it is even worse than I suspected, maybe someone have some experience in the matter?

I will have some free time over Christmas and wanted to try (again) some Linux distros but I guess it would be a waste of time.

 

(and please do not bring up DisplayPort - my monitor is a TV)

 

• It is true.
• Undervolting though should work on the latest kernel about to be released on Sunday. So if you use something Arch based it should be fine. On Nobara you would have to wait for some weeks more.

EDIT: The 6.7 kernel will actualyl be releeased on Janurary 7th.