Motherboard for 7950X3D

[WIGs]

Hello,

 

I have spent quite some time planning a 14900k build. Long enough to see the local retailer increase the price of 14900k by $60 while slashing the price of 7950X3D by $130. This kind of tips the balance back towards the AMD and makes me throw all my plans out of window. I am however quite lost in the AM5 platform. I know there were several issues like CPUs melting (hopefully fixed?), issues with memory compatibility and boot times. I am wondering, what is the safest bet motherboard (and possibly a memory kit alongside it) for the 7950X3D please?

 

I believe that MSI Tomahawk lineup is generally good (and good value), but B650 Tomahawk in particular seems to have quite some issues. My understanding is that there is no need to go for X670E (although I would be happy to have some PCIe 5.0 for future proofing - although it's probably a long way till that starts to matter). I have been eyeing ASUS Strix B650E-F which would have more than enough PCIe 5.0 for me, and it seems to be priced quite reasonably (I can get it for roughly $40 more than B650 Tomahawk). Apart of being reluctant to pay over $450 for a motherboard, I am open to any suggestions.

 

Thanks a lot!

[Shimejii]

Honest suggestion: Dont use the 7950x3D. Either you need a gaming cpu and get a 7800x3D, or you need a production machine, then choose 7950x. The scheduling issues still happen with it and unless you enjoy deep diving into getting the best of it id honestly just avoid it. 

 

also how are 13900k prices where you are buying? They are virtually identical so there really isnt much reason to buy it over that. 

 

For MOBO's: Avoid ASUS as they arent to be trusted for x670/b650 this gen. Id go with Gigabyte, MSI, or Asrock depending on your pricing and scheme your going for. You dont need a 450 Mobo, a 250-300$ one does just fine. Get the exact IO you need

[Agall]

12 minutes ago, WIGs said:

Hello,

 

I have spent quite some time planning a 14900k build. Long enough to see the local retailer increase the price of 14900k by $60 while slashing the price of 7950X3D by $130. This kind of tips the balance back towards the AMD and makes me throw all my plans out of window. I am however quite lost in the AM5 platform. I know there were several issues like CPUs melting (hopefully fixed?), issues with memory compatibility and boot times. I am wondering, what is the safest bet motherboard (and possibly a memory kit alongside it) for the 7950X3D please?

 

I believe that MSI Tomahawk lineup is generally good (and good value), but B650 Tomahawk in particular seems to have quite some issues. My understanding is that there is no need to go for X670E (although I would be happy to have some PCIe 5.0 for future proofing - although it's probably a long way till that starts to matter). I have been eyeing ASUS Strix B650E-F which would have more than enough PCIe 5.0 for me, and it seems to be priced quite reasonably (I can get it for roughly $40 more than B650 Tomahawk). Apart of being reluctant to pay over $450 for a motherboard, I am open to any suggestions.

 

Thanks a lot!

If you're going 7950x3D, I'd at least get a B650e/X670e motherboard. The Strix series had some really bad UEFI issues my buddy ran into that they haven't seemed to fix yet.

 

7950x3D overall is quite buggy without some specific UEFI settings, even then there's strange PCIe issues I've run into even with my X670e Aorus Master.

 

If the 14900k is too expensive now, you could always go for the 13900k instead, which should be a lot cheaper with barely any performance loss. 14900k is really just a cheaper 13900ks. Their new software optimization thing that only runs on 14th gen is cool, but so limited right now that its not worth it in my opinion, if it ever gets the support it needs.

 

Unless you absolutely need the extra multicore performance, the 7800x3D is a better gaming CPU overall. I'm even running my 7950x3D with CCD1 disabled right now to troubleshoot a weird scheduling issue in Warframe that popped up with the most recent update, but it seems unrelated so far.

[Nocte]

46 minutes ago, Agall said:

The Strix series had some really bad UEFI issues my buddy ran into that they haven't seemed to fix yet.

47 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Avoid ASUS as they arent to be trusted for x670/b650 this gen.

The "Asus" issues were AM5-spread (now fixed), they got most of the backlash because of how they handled it in terms of communication, not due to technical reasons.

[WIGs]

53 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

Honest suggestion: Dont use the 7950x3D. Either you need a gaming cpu and get a 7800x3D, or you need a production machine, then choose 7950x. The scheduling issues still happen with it and unless you enjoy deep diving into getting the best of it id honestly just avoid it. 

 

also how are 13900k prices where you are buying? They are virtually identical so there really isnt much reason to buy it over that. 

 

For MOBO's: Avoid ASUS as they arent to be trusted for x670/b650 this gen. Id go with Gigabyte, MSI, or Asrock depending on your pricing and scheme your going for. You dont need a 450 Mobo, a 250-300$ one does just fine. Get the exact IO you need

Well, the pricing is a bit weird now here. 13900k costs the same as 14900k (and actually before the price hike, 14900k was actually the cheapest top-of-the-line CPU I could get). And 7950X costs the same as 7950X3D. I am leaning a bit towards 7950X3D due to its efficiency (I value quiet operation so I might end up power-limiting 14900k or 7950X anyway).

 

I will be using the computer both for gaming and productivity. But I also like to tinker a bit, so actually the challenge of having asymmetric core design is something I would be glad to explore. 7950X is a bit boring in this regard. However, I am pretty sure I will regret this at times as I understand the thread affinity management is quite challenging and there will be issues.

52 minutes ago, Agall said:

If you're going 7950x3D, I'd at least get a B650e/X670e motherboard. The Strix series had some really bad UEFI issues my buddy ran into that they haven't seemed to fix yet.

 

7950x3D overall is quite buggy without some specific UEFI settings, even then there's strange PCIe issues I've run into even with my X670e Aorus Master.

 

If the 14900k is too expensive now, you could always go for the 13900k instead, which should be a lot cheaper with barely any performance loss. 14900k is really just a cheaper 13900ks. Their new software optimization thing that only runs on 14th gen is cool, but so limited right now that its not worth it in my opinion, if it ever gets the support it needs.

 

Unless you absolutely need the extra multicore performance, the 7800x3D is a better gaming CPU overall. I'm even running my 7950x3D with CCD1 disabled right now to troubleshoot a weird scheduling issue in Warframe that popped up with the most recent update, but it seems unrelated so far.

I have noticed that (at least here) there are very few B650E motherboards. Actually I believe that the only motherboards with B650E chipset I can easily get are Asus B650E-E and B650E-F (and with more effort an expensive B650E Aorus Master, and ASRock B650E PG Riptide - which however cost almost the same as their X670E counterparts).

 

Are there any particular motherboards you would recommend, or are all of them more-or-less equal (chipset and IO aside)? Personally, I do not care about esthetics that much (although, I prefer a more subdued look) and I do not even need much IO. (If I discard Asus, ASRock X670E PG Lightning seems like quite a good value - apart those MSI Tomahawk's)

 

Thank you!

[Nocte]

3 minutes ago, WIGs said:

I can easily get are Asus B650E-E and B650E-F (and with more effort an expensive B650E Aorus Master, and ASRock B650E PG Riptide - which however cost almost the same as their X670E counterparts).

If the price difference is large then I would get whatever is cheapest (with the B650E-E being better than the F at the same price tag).

5 minutes ago, WIGs said:

I will be using the computer both for gaming and productivity. But I also like to tinker a bit, so actually the challenge of having asymmetric core design is something I would be glad to explore. 7950X is a bit boring in this regard. However, I am pretty sure I will regret this at times as I understand the thread affinity management is quite challenging and there will be issues.

I would also stick with AMD if you value quiet operation. It would help if you could define what you mean with "tinker" and "productivity". Because those CPUs might be overkill for the tasks you are setting out to do as mentioned by @Shimejii

[Agall]

1 minute ago, Nocte said:

The "Asus" issues were AM5-spread (now fixed), they got most of the backlash because of how they handled it in terms of communication, not due to technical reasons.

I'm not referring to that "Asus issue", I'm speaking separately about their Strix AM5 series and overall poor UEFI implementation I've noticed. 

 

Just now, WIGs said:

Well, the pricing is a bit weird now here. 13900k costs the same as 14900k (and actually before the price hike, 14900k was actually the cheapest top-of-the-line CPU I could get). And 7950X costs the same as 7950X3D. I am leaning a bit towards 7950X3D due to its efficiency (I value quiet operation so I might end up power-limiting 14900k or 7950X anyway).

 

I will be using the computer both for gaming and productivity. But I also like to tinker a bit, so actually the challenge of having asymmetric core design is something I would be glad to explore. 7950X is a bit boring in this regard. However, I am pretty sure I will regret this at times as I understand the thread affinity management is quite challenging and there will be issues.

I have noticed that (at least here) there are very few B650E motherboards. Actually I believe that the only motherboards with B650E chipset I can easily get are Asus B650E-E and B650E-F (and with more effort an expensive B650E Aorus Master, and ASRock B650E PG Riptide - which however cost almost the same as their X670E counterparts).

 

Are there any particular motherboards you would recommend, or are all of them more-or-less equal (chipset and IO aside)? Personally, I do not care about esthetics that much (although, I prefer a more subdued look) and I do not even need much IO.

 

Thank you!

I generally look at rear I/O and fan header placement (along with other checkboxes of headers or not) where I'll pre-plan the fan routes. Some motherboards compromise on fan headers a lot, and I try to have as little components as possible, so no fan splitters/hubs or RGB.

 

If the Asus B650e boards are the most economical option, then so be it. Any motherboard seems to be a gamble with AM5 and its numerous bugs, only complicated by the hybrid CCD layout. I upgraded from a 5800x3D to 7950x3D to hammy down the 5800x3D to replace my brother's R5 3600, and I missed the multicore performance when I upgraded from a 3950x prior. I personally enjoy testing the 7950x3D, since its the only 1:1 3D vs non-3D chip you can get other than the 7900x3D. The TDP limits and such are all the same, and you can even force change it with Processor Affinity live (though when I do actual testing, I'll reconfigure the CCDs).

 

The 3D v-cache driver is horrid, though I've had it installed properly but disabled. This is done through the UEFI and 'SMU' setting, CPPC Preferred Cores in 'cache' which forces even a single thread Cinebench R23 run to run on CCD0. Its a far better solution than the driver, since that would sometimes give framerate dips likely when it swapped CCDs randomly. That CPPC setting effectively benches CCD1 until its needed, usually seeing almost 0% activity while gaming (untli recently with Warframe but that's another story). 

 

Regarding efficiency, the 7950x3D draws maybe 5W more under gaming load than the 7950x3D with CCD1 disabled (pseudo 7800x3D). To get double the multithreading performance on tap, that's quite good in my opinion. Worst case scenario, you can do what I do and occasionally disable CCD1, though I'm about to reenable it today after a week of testing.

[WIGs]

38 minutes ago, Agall said:

I'm not referring to that "Asus issue", I'm speaking separately about their Strix AM5 series and overall poor UEFI implementation I've noticed. 

 

I generally look at rear I/O and fan header placement (along with other checkboxes of headers or not) where I'll pre-plan the fan routes. Some motherboards compromise on fan headers a lot, and I try to have as little components as possible, so no fan splitters/hubs or RGB.

 

If the Asus B650e boards are the most economical option, then so be it. Any motherboard seems to be a gamble with AM5 and its numerous bugs, only complicated by the hybrid CCD layout. I upgraded from a 5800x3D to 7950x3D to hammy down the 5800x3D to replace my brother's R5 3600, and I missed the multicore performance when I upgraded from a 3950x prior. I personally enjoy testing the 7950x3D, since its the only 1:1 3D vs non-3D chip you can get other than the 7900x3D. The TDP limits and such are all the same, and you can even force change it with Processor Affinity live (though when I do actual testing, I'll reconfigure the CCDs).

 

The 3D v-cache driver is horrid, though I've had it installed properly but disabled. This is done through the UEFI and 'SMU' setting, CPPC Preferred Cores in 'cache' which forces even a single thread Cinebench R23 run to run on CCD0. Its a far better solution than the driver, since that would sometimes give framerate dips likely when it swapped CCDs randomly. That CPPC setting effectively benches CCD1 until its needed, usually seeing almost 0% activity while gaming (untli recently with Warframe but that's another story). 

 

Regarding efficiency, the 7950x3D draws maybe 5W more under gaming load than the 7950x3D with CCD1 disabled (pseudo 7800x3D). To get double the multithreading performance on tap, that's quite good in my opinion. Worst case scenario, you can do what I do and occasionally disable CCD1, though I'm about to reenable it today after a week of testing.

Actually, the Asus B650E-F seems to tick the boxes for me in terms of rear IO and fan header placement. And thanks a lot for your insights about optimizing the 7950X3D!

 

I am wondering, what memory kit are you using please? The Asus QVL is quite short and it is populated mostly by slower memory kits (and it lacks, e.g., the G.Skill 6000MT/s CL30 "golden bullet"). Basically the "fastest" kit on QVL I can get is Kingston 6000MT/s with 32-38-38-80 timings (unfortunately for me in white) or Kingston 6000MT/s with 36-38-38-80. (Or shouldn't I worry too much about QVL and just try the G.Skill one?) Thanks!

[Agall]

15 minutes ago, WIGs said:

Actually, the Asus B650E-F seems to tick the boxes for me in terms of rear IO and fan header placement. And thanks a lot for your insights about optimizing the 7950X3D!

 

I am wondering, what memory kit are you using please? The Asus QVL is quite short and it is populated mostly by slower memory kits (and it lacks, e.g., the G.Skill 6000MT/s CL30 "golden bullet"). Basically the "fastest" kit on QVL I can get is Kingston 6000MT/s with 32-38-38-80 timings (unfortunately for me in white) or Kingston 6000MT/s with 36-38-38-80. (Or shouldn't I worry too much about QVL and just try the G.Skill one?) Thanks!

6000MT/sec is the way to go overall. I use a 36-36-36-76 kit but those aren't available anymore it seems. CL30 should be more reliable now with the recent UEFI updates in the last couple of months, but you want the tightest possible kit. That 32-38-38-80 one seems decent.

[WIGs]

1 hour ago, Agall said:

6000MT/sec is the way to go overall. I use a 36-36-36-76 kit but those aren't available anymore it seems. CL30 should be more reliable now with the recent UEFI updates in the last couple of months, but you want the tightest possible kit. That 32-38-38-80 one seems decent.

Perfect, thanks a lot. And do you think that it would make sense to "try" that CL30 kit (and return it if it doesn't work well), or just grab that CL32? I guess there won't be much of a performance difference, but the G.Skill's just look so much better  Thanks a lot for all your help!

[Agall]

21 hours ago, WIGs said:

Perfect, thanks a lot. And do you think that it would make sense to "try" that CL30 kit (and return it if it doesn't work well), or just grab that CL32? I guess there won't be much of a performance difference, but the G.Skill's just look so much better  Thanks a lot for all your help!

In my opinion, the major advantage of 3D v-cache isn't that its 'better for gaming before of higher framerates' its that you get smoother framerates with less dips. Having a tighter kit of RAM continues that, and the smoothless of the experience is incredible. I curtail my expectations occasionally by disabling the 3D v-cache CCD0 and effectively running an R7 7700 on CCD1, and its very noticeable.

[WIGs]

21 hours ago, Agall said:

In my opinion, the major advantage of 3D v-cache isn't that its 'better for gaming before of higher framerates' its that you get smoother framerates with less dips. Having a tighter kit of RAM continues that, and the smoothless of the experience is incredible. I curtail my expectations occasionally by disabling the 3D v-cache CCD0 and effectively running an R7 7700 on CCD1, and its very noticeable.

Thank you! I understand the benefits of having a kit with tighter timings (and even if the large L3 cache in X3D means you might have less cache misses, you will still have them). My question was more about whether it makes sense to try a RAM stick outside QVL (with reasonably good timing such as the G.Skill 6000MT/s CL30-40-40-96). I have actually just completed building and setting up the system with the Kingston kit and it's working fine (although I didn't do much testing and tweaking yet). The only downside is that the white kit doesn't look that well in my all-black setup  But I think I can live with that if it is the safer and more performant option.

[Agall]

22 hours ago, WIGs said:

Thank you! I understand the benefits of having a kit with tighter timings (and even if the large L3 cache in X3D means you might have less cache misses, you will still have them). My question was more about whether it makes sense to try a RAM stick outside QVL (with reasonably good timing such as the G.Skill 6000MT/s CL30-40-40-96). I have actually just completed building and setting up the system with the Kingston kit and it's working fine (although I didn't do much testing and tweaking yet). The only downside is that the white kit doesn't look that well in my all-black setup  But I think I can live with that if it is the safer and more performant option.

In the probably near 100 builds I've done in my time, I've validated the QVL once. I don't think I've had any major issues with RAM either other than AM5's initial wonkiness that should be mitigated at this point. Even that one QVL validation, a 7950x server, only had one or two initial debug BSODs, which has been like +6 months since.