Samsung 990 Pro & 980 Pro Firmware

[xtremecris]

Hi Folks!

 

Anyone can update me on this? Have the firmware issues on both this drives been solved? Is it safe to buy them at this point?

I had read some articles that made me wait for some time, should I go for them or maybe get something on the lines of the SN850X?

 

Any NVMe PCIe 4.0 recommendations?

 

Thank you guys. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Gammix s70 blade

Basically any top end gen4 that is the cheapest, no point paying for branding cause all the damn parts (controlled, flash, dram, etc.) Are from the same few manufacturers (silicon motion, phison, hynix, micron, etc.) And clearly overpaying for a reputable brand doesnt ensure safety if the aformentioned firmware bullcrap is anything to go by

[porina]

30 minutes ago, xtremecris said:

Anyone can update me on this? Have the firmware issues on both this drives been solved? Is it safe to buy them at this point?

980 Pro is fine. Just check you have latest firmware as soon as you get it and update if not. Then you're good.

 

I have no idea about 990 Pro.

 

30 minutes ago, xtremecris said:

I had read some articles that made me wait for some time, should I go for them or maybe get something on the lines of the SN850X?

 

Any NVMe PCIe 4.0 recommendations?

Kingston Fury Renegade is my performance value choice. It is same performance tier as 980 Pro but usually a fair bit cheaper.

[xtremecris]

29 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Gammix s70 blade

Basically any top end gen4 that is the cheapest, no point paying for branding cause all the damn parts (controlled, flash, dram, etc.) Are from the same few manufacturers (silicon motion, phison, hynix, micron, etc.) And clearly overpaying for a reputable brand doesnt ensure safety if the aformentioned firmware bullcrap is anything to go by

Not at all, I am aware of the Samsung "tax" for their products but in this occasion I can get both models at a very reasonable price comparing with any other drives that's why I am leaning towards this 2 models.

 

I will have a look at the Gammix s70 blade for performance, what I like about this model it's the hardware encryption same in the Samsung drives

[xtremecris]

6 minutes ago, porina said:

980 Pro is fine. Just check you have latest firmware as soon as you get it and update if not. Then you're good.

 

I have no idea about 990 Pro.

 

Kingston Fury Renegade is my performance value choice. It is same performance tier as 980 Pro but usually a fair bit cheaper.

Yeah I tried to look for some info on the 990 Pro but it seems impossible. Never worked with the Kingston Fury Renegade I can actually get it for around 10 to 20€ more expensive than the 980 Pro in Europe.

 

Would it be worth going for the Kingston or stick with the 980 Pro?

[purplepuddingcat]

I'm very happy with my 980 Pro, it hasn't given me any trouble at all. I've had it for a couple years now and the drive life is still at 100%. You can update the firmware using their Magician software, or, if you don't want to install that, you can download a bootable .iso and do it before ever putting any data on the drive.

[porina]

12 minutes ago, xtremecris said:

Never worked with the Kingston Fury Renegade I can actually get it for around 10 to 20€ more expensive than the 980 Pro in Europe.

 

Would it be worth going for the Kingston or stick with the 980 Pro?

If 980 Pro is cheaper I'd get that. Like I said they're in the same performance tier. I only got the Kingston as it was quite a bit cheaper than the 980 Pro at the time.

[kokosnh]

4 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Gammix s70 blade

Basically any top end gen4 that is the cheapest, no point paying for branding cause all the damn parts (controlled, flash, dram, etc.) Are from the same few manufacturers (silicon motion, phison, hynix, micron, etc.) And clearly overpaying for a reputable brand doesnt ensure safety if the aformentioned firmware bullcrap is anything to go by

Well the thing is, thet s70 blade did in fact swap NAND to inferior 128l TLC from YMTC, from the top tier one 176l TLC micron ( confirmed in some of the capacity models ).

 

as for the ssd, it all depend on your location.

the Phison E18 + DDR4 + 176l TLC micron based SSD, like Kingston Fury Renegade, Kingston KC3000 etc.Are usually cheaper here and are marginally superior in performance to 980 pro.

 

but do note if the 980 pro is cheaper, then i would buy it. 
 

remember you have to check for FW updates on samsung SSD. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

41 minutes ago, kokosnh said:

Well the thing is, thet s70 blade did in fact swap NAND to inferior 128l TLC from YMTC, from the top tier one 176l TLC micron ( confirmed in some of the capacity models ).

Does this affect performance or is this simply inferior because unknown brand?

[kokosnh]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Does this affect performance or is this simply inferior because unknown brand?

Yes, and also yes.

 

ps. it's the largest china NAND producer 

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 hour ago, kokosnh said:

Yes, and also yes.

 

ps. it's the largest china NAND producer 

any articles or reviews that highlight the performance impact?

 

Basing quality purely on branding is stupid and clearly with the aformentioned samsung firmware shenanigans you arent completely safe even with a reputable brand

[kokosnh]

actually, I checked spec again, and it seems the IG5236 controller have only 1200 MTps channels, so it should be actual close between the micron and YMTC ( as the 176l TLC micron, can be run at 1600MTps but it can’t with this controller, so it’s not running full speed ).

 

but well, the max interface speed is one thing, the actual performance, timings and so on are different matter that need to be tested.

[Doobeedoo]

Yes, just googling it it's been a while with firmware fixes.

[DrunkenPanda]

On 7/3/2023 at 4:19 PM, Somerandomtechyboi said:

any articles or reviews that highlight the performance impact?

 

Basing quality purely on branding is stupid and clearly with the aformentioned samsung firmware shenanigans you arent completely safe even with a reputable brand

This is a little bit silly... different brands source different materials to make particular sku's with... there is also country of manufacture to consider, quality standards associated with those countries, and benchmark data.

 

So... maybe recently the pack caught up with Samsung and Intel, but for a LONG time, those were the only two brands that made top-tier 2.5" SSDs. That transferred thru when PCIE and NVME flash first came out... and when I say top-tier, I mean some of the other brands were half their read/write speed... or worse.

 

You are correct, you are never "completely safe"... even with a reputable brand... but you've got a lot better odds with a reputable brand vs random Chinese one... or even a targeted Chinese one... and even if it were on par, or better, even, I'd pay more to avoid supporting Chinese manufacturing for multiple reasons. There are some Chinese products that are unavoidable, but yea...

 

There was 1 version of firmware that was present on 2TB 980 Pro drives in 2021 that I recall that was bad. It was addressed quickly. It's correctable by doing the thing you should do regardless of an actual issue... using the latest firmware for your newly purchased hardware that's been sitting on a shelf for X months...

 

I'm not aware of anything with the 990 Pro? What's the issue there?

[Lurking]

980Pro is solid. I bought it a few months after it came out. So, all bugs were fixed. That probably is a good strategy for any SSD. A few month old design still is extremely fast, but likely mature enough and less costly than the newest. This applies to ALL manufacturers. 990 Pro should be old enough at this point. so it ay be more a price/performance decision. TBH, in real life both will be extremally fast. 

 

This also is one of the few SSD with DRAM. When I bought it, I filtered on pcpartspicker and I was surprised to see most SSD don't have DRAM. that just left Samsung and Crucial or Kingstone or something similar and Samsung was barely more expensive. For storage, you want to be conservative. Drives can live a very long time and move from PC to PC. 

 

I'm no SSD expert, but DRAM (or lack thereof) is what I read frequently is an issue if you have none. At least in some scenarios. FWIW, Samsung is vertically integrated, so you get most part out of one hand. And they are not substituting parts for inferior ones after reviews were done. Yes, they substitute over the model run, but typically for equal or even better parts (as technology progresses or they change production of components). My impression was, Samsung didn't change components for malicious ways, just because those components now had a successor model. That other brand i read had a history for using vastly inferior parts (same model#!) after the launch and after the reviews were done. There is no way i ever could trust them. 

 

So for me, if specs and reviews look similar, I still would choose the Samsung if it is just 10-20% more expensive. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

3 hours ago, DrunkenPanda said:

You are correct, you are never "completely safe"... even with a reputable brand... but you've got a lot better odds with a reputable brand vs random Chinese one... or even a targeted Chinese one... and even if it were on par, or better, even, I'd pay more to avoid supporting Chinese manufacturing for multiple reasons. There are some Chinese products that are unavoidable, but yea...

Not neccesarily true

 

Branding doesnt mean shit most of the time and if it did and those china drives somehow fail more than some overpriced korean or western brand then silicon motion, phison, etc. Would all be bankrupt by now if they made shit controllers and same goes for manufacturers for the flash chips, dram, etc.

 

If you want ssds with the same controller then compare the silicon power a80 and team mp34, so if one of the brands is not as well known you assume its unreliable even though the components are the same as another ssd with a more reputable brand?

 

heck i even have a kyo 512gb sata ssd in my x58 rig im trying to sell and its still working just fine with no issues, why should i pay more for an overpriced 870 evo when this cheap 20$ kyo visibly performs the same?

[DrunkenPanda]

6 hours ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Not neccesarily true

 

Branding doesnt mean shit most of the time and if it did and those china drives somehow fail more than some overpriced korean or western brand then silicon motion, phison, etc. Would all be bankrupt by now if they made shit controllers and same goes for manufacturers for the flash chips, dram, etc.

 

If you want ssds with the same controller then compare the silicon power a80 and team mp34, so if one of the brands is not as well known you assume its unreliable even though the components are the same as another ssd with a more reputable brand?

 

heck i even have a kyo 512gb sata ssd in my x58 rig im trying to sell and its still working just fine with no issues, why should i pay more for an overpriced 870 evo when this cheap 20$ kyo visibly performs the same?

I don't trust random unknown Chinese manufacturers to provide the hardware they sent out for benchmarking. They could disappear tomorrow and rebrand to something else nobody's heard of and no harm, no foul for screwing their customer base. I don't say this as some blind talking point either, because they do just that on a regular basis... I also don't agree with the working conditions, worker pay, and politics of the country in general... which is a whole other issue.

Samsung can't just disappear and refuse to support their products because they have an established brand and a reputation to uphold. So if there's a choice and one's $10 more, but has been a mainstay in the industry for 20-30 years... I'll gladly pay that $10 premium for peace of mind knowing I'm not about to get screwed. You can call that fanboyism or whatever you want to call it... but I get what I pay for every time.

 

I'm also 37 and have been building enthusiast computers since I was 12. I have a good job and can afford to splurge an extra couple hundred across a system for established manufacturers that I have experience with. I know they will stand behind and support their products, and have customer service beyond "we already have your money, sucks for you". If none of that matters to you, and all you care about is raw benchmark price/performance, then we are different customers that value different things. I'll agree to disagree here

 

Edit: I've got a 1TB 970 evo... tell me what benchmark to run and we can live test it vs ur kyo

[Somerandomtechyboi]

1 minute ago, DrunkenPanda said:

I don't trust random unknown Chinese manufacturers to provide the hardware they sent out for benchmarking. They could disappear tomorrow and rebrand to something else nobody's heard of and no harm, no foul for screwing their customer base. I don't say this as some blind talking point either, because they do just that on a regular basis... I also don't agree with the working conditions, worker pay, and politics of the country in general... which is a whole other issue.

True but the components still come from the same few manufacturers so i dont really see how theyd fuck up such a simple product aside from firmware

 

2 minutes ago, DrunkenPanda said:

I'm also 37 and have been building enthusiast computers since I was 12. I have a good job and can afford to splurge an extra couple hundred across a system for established manufacturers that I have experience with. I know they will stand behind and support their products, and have customer service beyond "we already have your money, sucks for you". If none of that matters to you, and all you care about is raw benchmark price/performance, then we are different customers that value different things. I'll agree to disagree here

Until they dont *looks at samsung firmware fuck up*

 

but for the ppl that have money sure go ahead, budget conscious ppl should definitely avoid, especially when the 970 evo can cost the same as a top end gen4 like the gammix s70 blade that will annihilate it in performance

 

My methodology is more like penny pinch the shit out of everything that doesnt contribute to performance but at the same time max out spec for a given budget

[DrunkenPanda]

2 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Until they dont *looks at samsung firmware fuck up*

.... That Samsung corrected quickly.... because customer support